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filter threads?

Discuss any astro equipment that does not have its own forum, such as focusers, finders, chairs, etc.
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murphcc1
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filter threads?

#1

Post by murphcc1 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:59 pm

So whats the best way to screw on the filters on the eye pieces?

Last night I tried using my Celestron filters on the EP's and had a heck of a time getting them on.

They always want to cross thread............shouldn't take 10 minutes to get those little feckers on!!!!!

Any help??
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#2

Post by yobbo89 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:18 pm

Not my fortay, but i happen to have a 1.25'' filter and eyepiece sitting around,and my luck it screwed on in less then 1/2 a second, more then likely miss matched machining tolerance has got you with the pair you are trying to mate.

check if the filter screws onto other eyepieces , can you swap out the eyepiece 1.25'' or 2'' (what ever size you have) nose adapter with one the accepts threads more easily. i have a process of deepening threads with a cutting die but it might be out of reach if you haven't got tools.
scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"trust tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob,meade 12'' f10 lx200 sct
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mounts : eq6 pro/eq8/ (upcoming : mesu 200 v2)
filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, Thousand Oaks Solar Filter.
extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel
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#3

Post by kt4hx » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:37 pm

One would like to think that there would be some industry standard that would work across brands of filters and eyepieces. While in the majority of cases this seems to work out, there are always a few cases where it does not. There can be a subtle thread pitch variation that makes starting the filter difficult with some brands of eyepieces. There could be a very minute spur or deformation in the thread of either that creates an issue.

At least in the past, Orion's 2" filters were known to have difficulties at times threading into eyepieces or adapters other than Orion's. I believe that was due to a slight variation in the thread starting point. As an example, I have always had issues trying to thread my Orion 2" filters into 2 to 1.25 adapters other than Orion's brand. But a DGM or Baader filter goes on easily for either Orion or the Antares adapters I have. My ES 82 18mm eyepiece has been a particular problem for the Orion filters. Whereas the Baader and DGM thread on fine. Interestingly the ES 82 24mm has never presented a problem with threading on my Orion filters directly. So go figure.
Alan

Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob
ES AR127 f/6.5 & ED80 f/6 on Twilight-II || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian on Twilight-I
ES 82° 24mm, 18mm; Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm, 5mm + 2 inch and 1.25 inch Barlows
DGM NPB Filter || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow Filters || Baader HaB Filter
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"The eternal silence of these infinite spaces frightens me...." (Blaise Pascal)
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#4

Post by murphcc1 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:55 pm

Well I checked all the filers and eye pieces in the kit, the 17mm, 13mm, and 6mm EP's wont accept the filters, the others will.
So I have an email to the place I bought it to see what we can do about it.
Thanks
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#5

Post by kt4hx » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:10 pm

Based on your last post, it sounds like you have one of those Celestron eyepiece and colored filter kits? If that is indeed what you have, they are not known for their high quality. Your get eyepieces you don't really need and the filters are not of significant use either.
Alan

Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob
ES AR127 f/6.5 & ED80 f/6 on Twilight-II || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian on Twilight-I
ES 82° 24mm, 18mm; Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm, 5mm + 2 inch and 1.25 inch Barlows
DGM NPB Filter || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow Filters || Baader HaB Filter
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"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"The eternal silence of these infinite spaces frightens me...." (Blaise Pascal)
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#6

Post by murphcc1 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:18 pm

Yea thats what I got with the scope.
Any suggestions for a better kit?
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#7

Post by Gordon » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:50 pm

I moved this topic to a more appropriate area.
Gordon
Scopes: Explore Scientific ED80CF, Skywatcher 254N, Orion ST80, Orion Atlas EQ-g mount, Orion SSAG guider. Baader MPCC MkIII coma corrector, Vixen 70mm refractor. Lunt LS35THa solar scope. Skywatcher EQ5pro mount. Imagers: ZWO ASI1600 MM Cool, ZWO ASI174mm-C (for use with my Quark chromosphere), ZWO ASI120MC Filters: LRGB, Ha 7nm, O-III 7nm, S-II 7nm Eyepieces: a few, Primary software: Cartes du Ciel, EQMOD, SGP, Nebulosity, Photoshop, StarTools V1.4
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#8

Post by kt4hx » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:18 pm

murphcc1 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:18 pm
Yea thats what I got with the scope.
Any suggestions for a better kit?
To be very honest, I do not recommend eyepiece/filter kits. Since it came with the scope and you didn't buy it separately, then obviously you won't be returning it. The biggest problem with kits is that they provide some very short focal length eyepieces, which with your f/10 scope pushed the magnification up pretty high. Also the eye relief in shorter focal length plossls get awfully tight.

I am running under the assumption that it came with 32, 15, 9, 6 and 4mm eyepieces or something similar? The 4mm would be really pushing it except for those ultra-rare nights when seeing is unbelievably stable. Even the 6mm might be problematic at times because of conditions. While these are a very basic eyepiece design, the good side of that is that your f/10 optical design is much more tolerant of more basic eyepiece designs than is my f/5 and f/4.5 dobsonian reflectors.

I am also running under the assumption that the filters in question are colored filters? If so, I am not a strong fan of those. Then again, I rarely observe the planets or moon, being a DSO guy (galaxies in particular). The filters included in these are again of the most basic quality. True planetary observers swear by filters because good ones can pull out some of the more subtle details. Personally I simply never liked the colored tone they add to the image. I had difficulty warming up to a blue Jupiter through a filter. :)

For lunar observation I personally recommend a variable polaraizing filter, such as the one linked below (either 2 inch or 1.25 inch as needed):

https://agenaastro.com/bst-2-variable-t ... ilter.html

https://agenaastro.com/bst-1-25-variabl ... ilter.html

I do utilize filters, but mine are of the nebula and line types (narrow-band, O-III, HaB) for improving contrast with various types of nebulae. All mine are 2 inch since my scopes all have 2 inch focusers. I merely screw them into the bottom of the 2 to 1.25 adapters so they will work with my 1.25 inch eyepieces, or directly into the bottom of the 2 inch models.

Hope that gives you some food for thought.
Alan

Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob
ES AR127 f/6.5 & ED80 f/6 on Twilight-II || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian on Twilight-I
ES 82° 24mm, 18mm; Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm, 5mm + 2 inch and 1.25 inch Barlows
DGM NPB Filter || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow Filters || Baader HaB Filter
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"The eternal silence of these infinite spaces frightens me...." (Blaise Pascal)
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#9

Post by murphcc1 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:07 pm

Yes it came with the 32, 17, 13, 8 and 6, along with a 26mm that came with the scope and the colored filters, Kodak Wratten #12, #21, #25, #56, #58, and #80A,and the moon filter.
Looking at some Baader EP's.
Not sure about filters yet, I like looking at both planetary and DSO's.
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#10

Post by kt4hx » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:29 pm

You would get a noticeably wider field of view with the Baader's. I am assuming you are talking about Hyperions, which would work nicely in your scope.

Even something like these will do a good job in your scope and widen your field of view. When I've used them, found them to be quite good for the price point and are a good step up from plossls.

https://agenaastro.com/eyepieces/all-ey ... al_ed.html

The Kodak Wrattens should be decent. Here is a filter guide for planetary observation:

https://agenaastro.com/articles/choosin ... ilter.html
Alan

Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob
ES AR127 f/6.5 & ED80 f/6 on Twilight-II || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian on Twilight-I
ES 82° 24mm, 18mm; Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm, 5mm + 2 inch and 1.25 inch Barlows
DGM NPB Filter || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow Filters || Baader HaB Filter
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"The eternal silence of these infinite spaces frightens me...." (Blaise Pascal)
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#11

Post by murphcc1 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:35 pm

Thanks for all the help!!
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#12

Post by notFritzArgelander » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:38 pm

The Baader filters are good too. The colored ones are useful for planets. The H beta filter is excellent for bringing out emission nebulae. The solar continuum filter is good for bringing out contrast on the Moon and planets when you don't want color.

The problem with cheap filters is dubious optical quality. They need to be really optically flat to avoid degrading the image.
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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#13

Post by JimMinCT » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:58 pm

One quick fix, (maybe), is to try screwing it into the diagonal...
This way you can swap as you like and not worry about removing it each time you want to switch EP's
OTA's: Kson 1026-C, 4" Carbon Fiber ED Refractor, Home-built, 6.1", f/2.? APO refractor... (In Progress) 8" Meade LX2 SCT Mounts: CGX Imaging: ZWO ASI 1600MM, Canon 550D (T2i) Software: PixInsight, APT, PHD2, SharpCap, SGP, Stellarium, Registax, Stuff: Astro-Tech 0.8x FR/FF, Hotech SCA FF, ZWO 7nm 31mm LRGB-SHO filter set, ZWO 8 position EFWObsy: "Maybe Spaceship" Observatory
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#14

Post by pakarinen » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:36 pm

JimMinCT wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:58 pm
One quick fix, (maybe), is to try screwing it into the diagonal...
This way you can swap as you like and not worry about removing it each time you want to switch EP's
Yup. All of my filters fit all of my EPs except for my Orion Expanse 15mm. And, of course, I tend to use the 15mm the most often. So if I know I'm going to be swapping EPs around, I usually screw the filter onto the diagonal.

I've read that Orion threads are different by design than othe' EPs, but I don't know if that's accurate.
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#15

Post by murphcc1 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:15 pm

So it has been confirmed that the threads on the EP's are junk, the place I bought them is sending me 3 new silver barrels.
Thanks for all the help!!
Meade 8" LX90 Autostar
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