requirements for a gift. recommendations?

Discuss your refractor type scopes here.
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requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#1

Post by notFritzArgelander » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:40 am

I've finally managed to negotiate a set of requirements for a 2nd telescope for a grandson. The first telescope was a Vixen Nature Eye which was sufficient to establish the durability of his interest. The obstacle is it's a table top tripod and so inconvenient to use. (One needs to take the scope and a tabletop to an urban park to observe.) Space is a premium. I think that the forest of scopes in my LR has my daughter horrified. I showed her Ed Ting's living room and it only deepened her terrors. From his existing kit he will keep the BCOs with Q-turret and I will repurpose the rest.

So here are the requirements:
1) the optical design shall be a refractor
2) the acquisition budget shall be $100
3) the mount shall be a self contained alt-azimuth type with no additional support needed

Likely candidates include:
https://www.highpointscientific.com/tel ... case-21035
https://www.highpointscientific.com/tel ... ount-21036
https://www.highpointscientific.com/tel ... ker-80-azs

My inclination is to go with the longer 70mm because of less chromatic aberration. But I worry about mount stability. Maybe one of the shorties would be supported better?

What says the collective wisdom? These are illustrative examples only. Non Celestron suggestions are welcome.
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#2

Post by JayTee » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:00 am

How about this from Costco for $90.
Screenshot_20191124-165823.png
Cheers,
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Main: C-stron CPC1100 #2 Scope: 8" f/7.5 Dob mounted Newt AP Scopes: TPO 6" f/9 RC, ES 80mm f/6 APO G&G Scope: Meade 102mm f/7.8, Bresser 102mm f/4.5 Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs Mounts: C-stron AVX CGEM & GT Alt-Az, Meade DS2000 Cameras: Canon T3i (x2), ASI120MC Binos: 10X50,10.5X70,15X70 (x2), 25X100 EPs: ES: 21 100°, 30 82° X-Cels: 9, 12, 18, 25 Clubs: RCA & HAS
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#3

Post by notFritzArgelander » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:30 am

JayTee wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:00 am
How about this from Costco for $90.
Screenshot_20191124-165823.png
Cheers,
JT
That would be a candidate as long as the mount is steady.
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#4

Post by Refractordude » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:47 am

notFritzArgelander wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:40 am
I've finally managed to negotiate a set of requirements for a 2nd telescope for a grandson. The first telescope was a Vixen Nature Eye which was sufficient to establish the durability of his interest. The obstacle is it's a table top tripod and so inconvenient to use. (One needs to take the scope and a tabletop to an urban park to observe.) Space is a premium. I think that the forest of scopes in my LR has my daughter horrified. I showed her Ed Ting's living room and it only deepened her terrors. From his existing kit he will keep the BCOs with Q-turret and I will repurpose the rest.

So here are the requirements:
1) the optical design shall be a refractor
2) the acquisition budget shall be $100
3) the mount shall be a self contained alt-azimuth type with no additional support needed

Likely candidates include:
https://www.highpointscientific.com/tel ... case-21035
https://www.highpointscientific.com/tel ... ount-21036
https://www.highpointscientific.com/tel ... ker-80-azs

My inclination is to go with the longer 70mm because of less chromatic aberration. But I worry about mount stability. Maybe one of the shorties would be supported better?

What says the collective wisdom? These are illustrative examples only. Non Celestron suggestions are welcome.
Reviews for the 70mm f10 are not bad. I think the mount will be stable. You will have to ditch the stock finder for a red dot Svbony. If you buy from Amazon/fulfilled by Amazon the return shipping is free. Buy it and test it out. Click the images.

Here is a great YouTube review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcX-JiX-JbI
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#5

Post by Lady Fraktor » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:37 am

All of them refractor wise are a decent place to start though I do have a leaning towards the 70mm f/10 as that was my first telescope.
Everyone of these will supply eyepieces to sacrifice to the cloud deities (heaven forbid you let your grandson view with these!) and they would all benefit from a diagonal upgrade.
It does not have to be an expensive one but an upgrade will help.
5x24 finder scopes, upgrade to a cheap RDF so it is at least usable unless you teach him to star hop using the main view.
At least he will be able to wring the most out of any of them using the BCO eyepieces and they will not overload the focuser.

So 70mm f/10 for first pick, 80mm f/5 for second pick.
Proper Telescopes: Antares 105 f/15, Celestron 150 f/8, Stellarvue NHNGDX 80 f/6.9, TAL 100RS f/10, TS 102 f/11, UR 70 f/10, Vixen ED115s f/7.7
Mounts: Celestron AS-GT, Celestron CG-5 w/ Argo Navis & tracking motor, SLT w/ pier & tripod mods, Manfrotto 028b w/ SV M2C, Mantrotto 055Pro w/ 128RC, TAL MT1C, Vixen SXP w/ HAL-130 & half pier
Diagonal: 2" A-P Maxbright, 2" Baader Herschel Wedge (P), 2" Zeiss/ Baader Amici Prism (DX2), 2" Orion Amici Prism, 2" Stellarvue DX, 2" TeleVue EverBrite
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#6

Post by SkyHiker » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:21 am

If $1.99 over budget is permissible, here's a 90 mm with 1 good review: https://explorescientificusa.com/collec ... e-az-mount
... Henk. :D Telescopes: 6" Mak-Newt (Comet Hunter), ES ED127CF, ES ED80, Zhumell Z12, Coulter Odyssey 10, AT6RC, Venture RX-7, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S, AVX, LXD55, Tiltall, Cameras: Fuji X-a1, Canon SX40, Xt, XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: Dob and camera barndoor trackers, afocal adapter, Dob with foldable base and Az/Alt setting circles, Accessories: SSAG, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: DSS, ImageMagick, PHD, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#7

Post by notFritzArgelander » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:57 am

SkyHiker wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:21 am
If $1.99 over budget is permissible, here's a 90 mm with 1 good review: https://explorescientificusa.com/collec ... e-az-mount
Thanks!
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#8

Post by Lady Fraktor » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:28 am

Since it is actually a Bresser refractor here is some better information on it: https://www.bresser.de/Astronomie/Teles ... Tubus.html
A bit better price through ES since it comes with a mount.
Proper Telescopes: Antares 105 f/15, Celestron 150 f/8, Stellarvue NHNGDX 80 f/6.9, TAL 100RS f/10, TS 102 f/11, UR 70 f/10, Vixen ED115s f/7.7
Mounts: Celestron AS-GT, Celestron CG-5 w/ Argo Navis & tracking motor, SLT w/ pier & tripod mods, Manfrotto 028b w/ SV M2C, Mantrotto 055Pro w/ 128RC, TAL MT1C, Vixen SXP w/ HAL-130 & half pier
Diagonal: 2" A-P Maxbright, 2" Baader Herschel Wedge (P), 2" Zeiss/ Baader Amici Prism (DX2), 2" Orion Amici Prism, 2" Stellarvue DX, 2" TeleVue EverBrite
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#9

Post by Thefatkitty » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:41 pm

Well here's my two cents... The only concern I would have is the altitude rod that comes with a lot of these. I have two scopes that use these rods; a '61 Tasco 60mm, and a mid-eighties Towa 3". The rods work great for minute adjustments, but I've learned to get the object I want to focus on in the bottom of my FOV, as when I let go of the scope, all the not-so-precise-fitting parts in the altitude rod cause the scope to drop a bit. Granted, the two scopes are both quite old, but I doubt the design of said rod has improved any over the years. Perhaps it has, or they have better tolerances, but just something to be aware of. Less moving parts can often be better, especially if they're ill-fitting to start with :D

Personally, I'd go with either the 70mm f/10, or the 90mm Henk suggested. Of course, they both have those rods....

All the best and good luck with the decision!
Mark
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#10

Post by notFritzArgelander » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:38 pm

I went for the Synta 70mm f10 AZ but under the Orion brand. Because 1) there were additional useful goodies and 2) most of the observing will be done in an urban area so Moon and planets and 3) it comes with a red dot finder.

Thanks.
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#11

Post by Lady Fraktor » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:07 pm

I assume this is the Observer II package?
I am sure he will be quite happy with it.
Proper Telescopes: Antares 105 f/15, Celestron 150 f/8, Stellarvue NHNGDX 80 f/6.9, TAL 100RS f/10, TS 102 f/11, UR 70 f/10, Vixen ED115s f/7.7
Mounts: Celestron AS-GT, Celestron CG-5 w/ Argo Navis & tracking motor, SLT w/ pier & tripod mods, Manfrotto 028b w/ SV M2C, Mantrotto 055Pro w/ 128RC, TAL MT1C, Vixen SXP w/ HAL-130 & half pier
Diagonal: 2" A-P Maxbright, 2" Baader Herschel Wedge (P), 2" Zeiss/ Baader Amici Prism (DX2), 2" Orion Amici Prism, 2" Stellarvue DX, 2" TeleVue EverBrite
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#12

Post by notFritzArgelander » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:23 pm

Lady Fraktor wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:07 pm
I assume this is the Observer II package?
I am sure he will be quite happy with it.
Yes. I think it oversteps his Mum's severe volume requirements but I have a massive case justifying that....!
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#13

Post by Ylem » Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:33 am

I like the 80mm Celestron short tube, the 3rd link.
It's an ST80 :)

Long tubes with narrow FOV can make for a fustrating experience for youngsters IMHO.
A bunch of SCTs and MCTs scattered around the house and an Orion ST80.
A big box of Plossls :D

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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#14

Post by smeyer8015 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:57 am

A bit over budget, but Costco Warehouse has the Celestron Omni 102 AZ for $149
https://www.celestron.com/products/omni ... -telescope
Celestron Classic 8, Old Sears 60mm f/15 refractor, Old Edmund Scientific 6 inch F/8 newt, GSO 2" Diag, ES 30mm/70, ES 25mm/70, Orion 32 Super Plossl, Mead 24mm MA,
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#15

Post by notFritzArgelander » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:14 am

Ylem wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:33 am
I like the 80mm Celestron short tube, the 3rd link.
It's an ST80 :)

Long tubes with narrow FOV can make for a fustrating experience for youngsters IMHO.
Your POV is well advised usually but in this individual case I've observed he's very patient with target acquisition.
smeyer8015 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:57 am
A bit over budget, but Costco Warehouse has the Celestron Omni 102 AZ for $149
https://www.celestron.com/products/omni ... -telescope
A good choice in general but for fear of overstepping parameters.
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#16

Post by smeyer8015 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:38 pm

This scope is normally a $199 scope. It also appears that it can accommodate a 2" diagonal.
Celestron Classic 8, Old Sears 60mm f/15 refractor, Old Edmund Scientific 6 inch F/8 newt, GSO 2" Diag, ES 30mm/70, ES 25mm/70, Orion 32 Super Plossl, Mead 24mm MA,
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#17

Post by notFritzArgelander » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:20 pm

smeyer8015 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:38 pm
This scope is normally a $199 scope. It also appears that it can accommodate a 2" diagonal.
Yes it has many virtues. The die, as they say, is cast.
The scope I selected will be for home use in a light polluted area. For field trips my flotilla is ready to serve.
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: requirements for a gift. recommendations?

#18

Post by notFritzArgelander » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:38 pm

I took delivery yesterday. Naturally the weather was dismal. However I have begun the seduction of the neighbor dog so that I can come and go undisturbed. The key to that appears to be whole grain low sodium crackers fed through the fencing. :) I might finally be able to use the back yard soon.

In any case, I'll unpack the scope and do indoor acceptance testing with artificial stars and suchlike.
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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