If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

Discuss your refractor type scopes here.
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John Baars
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If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#1

Post by John Baars » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:37 am

Nice Christmas present if you have a money tree in your backyard.
Have a look at the video
https://www.astroshop.eu/telescopes/vao ... na/p,63162
I am afraid they overlooked one charasteristic of us amateurs: we want to do everything ourselves.
Telescopes in Schiedam : SW 150mm F/5 Achromat, SW Evostar 120ED F/7.5, Vixen 102ED F/9, OMC140 maksutov F/14.3, SW 102MAK F/13 on Vixen GPDX.
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Astronomical Rijswijk observatory telescopes: Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8 on NEQ6, 6 inch Newton on GP, C8 on NEQ6, Meade 14 inch SCT on EQ8, Lunt.

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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#2

Post by Don Quixote » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:46 pm

John Baars wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:37 am
Nice Christmas present if you have a money tree in your backyard.
Have a look at the video
https://www.astroshop.eu/telescopes/vao ... na/p,63162
I am afraid they overlooked one charasteristic of us amateurs: we want to do everything ourselves.
Yup...
I will unabashedly say this looks like an item in one of those Christmas Catalogs that get send out to folks that just need that something else to put on the coffee table...
I know, I am an opinionated so-and-so...

Now if I can just figure out which button to push now that I have it in my cart so I can "check put"....😊

Just kidding...
It is interesting, John, but I am "committed to the struggle". 👍

Thank you Sir.
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#3

Post by Haunty » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:11 pm

Wow that's pretty neat. Now there's an option if I ever get too lazy.
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#4

Post by UlteriorModem » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:30 pm

LoL the uninformed masses will eat this thing up!

It looks like the aperture is maybe an inch and it's alt az to boot. So yea long term exposures are out.

Sorry I have to call BS on the image they show on the guys phone of M31. Pretty high expectations!
Current Equipment:
Scope: 10 inch Ritchey Chrieten atop a CGX-L mount
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#5

Post by SkyHiker » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:01 pm

UlteriorModem wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:30 pm
LoL the uninformed masses will eat this thing up!

It looks like the aperture is maybe an inch and it's alt az to boot. So yea long term exposures are out.

Sorry I have to call BS on the image they show on the guys phone of M31. Pretty high expectations!
It's an 80 mm aperture.

Of course we don't know how those images were actually obtained but IMHO Alt/Az is something that can be overcome by good alignment (continuous plate solving in the background, and filtering the corrections) and short exposures. So, with enough computer power despite the lack of an auto-guider I think it could work. And many of us have spent more money than that price tag.

So there should be a market for people with who like fancy Christmas present gadgets. For many of us the main problem is to drag the mount and gear outside and have to set it up. If that device works as advertised at least it makes it easier.

But John is right, we mostly want to do it all ourselves, heck my main mount does not even have goto, that's part of the fun.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: 6" Mak-Newt (Comet Hunter), ES ED127CF, ES ED80, Zhumell Z12, Coulter Odyssey 10, AT6RC, Venture RX-7, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S, AVX, LXD55, Tiltall, Cameras: Fuji X-a1, Canon SX40, Xt, XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: Dob and camera barndoor trackers, afocal adapter, Dob with foldable base and Az/Alt setting circles, Accessories: SSAG, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: DSS, ImageMagick, PHD, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#6

Post by UlteriorModem » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:05 pm

Can it also account for field rotation?
Current Equipment:
Scope: 10 inch Ritchey Chrieten atop a CGX-L mount
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#7

Post by notFritzArgelander » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:12 pm

If I ever get that lazy there's a medical directive to pull the plug. :)
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#8

Post by SkyHiker » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:59 pm

UlteriorModem wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:05 pm
Can it also account for field rotation?
Not mechanically, the only way to account for it is to take short exposures. Nowadays there are many cameras with little read noise so there is no penalty for short exposures. Just crank up the ISO until you're in the ISO-less range, then limit your exposures so as to not blow out the stars. I usually take 30 or 60 second subs at 6400 ISO, which is considered short, but it seems to work best.

I'm pretty sure Alt/Az at 30 seconds would make any field rotation negligible. So long as the scope rotates around the center of the image, which can be done if the tracking is good (keep plate solving in the background). The stacking is done incrementally so the pain of having to stack extra is on the machine not the user, as it is for us.

I don't have an Alt/Az so this is theory (though I looked at the math and it seems to support it) but I think one main problem of AP with Alt/Az in general is the lack of accurate tracking - just goto tracking, which we all know is not enough for AP, and the problem of auto-guiding. With an auto-guider for Alt/Az the problem is that the image rotates around the alignment star, which is usually randomly outside the image, causing much larger streaks than when the center of rotation is at the center of the image. But if you did continuous plate solving with a learning algorithm on top of it, you should be able to track very accurately IMHO. And the steppers would have to be micro-steppers to avoid zig zagging.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: 6" Mak-Newt (Comet Hunter), ES ED127CF, ES ED80, Zhumell Z12, Coulter Odyssey 10, AT6RC, Venture RX-7, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S, AVX, LXD55, Tiltall, Cameras: Fuji X-a1, Canon SX40, Xt, XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: Dob and camera barndoor trackers, afocal adapter, Dob with foldable base and Az/Alt setting circles, Accessories: SSAG, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: DSS, ImageMagick, PHD, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#9

Post by Bigzmey » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:29 pm

I checked some feedback on CN and the thing actually works. I am impressed. :lol:
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102 ED F7; Celestron: 8" SCT F10, Omni 150R Achro F5, Onyx 80ED F6.3, Mak 127mm F12; Meade: ST80 F5. Mounts: ES Twilight I, Bresser EXOS2, SW SkyTee2, AzGTi, UA MicroStar. Binos: Orion 15x70, 10x50, Nikon 8x40. EPs: Pentax: XWs; TeleVue: Delites, Plossls & barlows; ES: 68s; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV; Meade: UWAs & Plossls. Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec prism, Clicklock; TeleVue: Evebrite. Filters: Lumicon, Baader, Astronomik. DSO tally: 1661 (Completed: M110, H1, H2. In progress: H3: 195, H2,500: 1241, S110: 77). Doubles: 905, Comets: 13, Asteroids: 62
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#10

Post by AntennaGuy » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:32 pm

notFritzArgelander wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:12 pm
If I ever get that lazy there's a medical directive to pull the plug. :)
:lol: :lol:
* Celestron C6 on a Twilight 1 Alt-Az mount
* Meade 323 refractor on a manual equatorial mount.
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#11

Post by JayTee » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:49 pm

OPT give us a better account of its capabilities and description. I still think it's too expensive for an 80mm APO. Check this out.
https://optcorp.com/products/vaonis-ste ... -telescope

Cheers,
JT
Main: C-stron CPC1100 #2 Scope: 8" f/7.5 Dob mounted Newt AP Scopes: TPO 6" f/9 RC, ES 80mm f/6 APO G&G Scope: Meade 102mm f/7.8, Bresser 102mm f/4.5 Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs Mounts: C-stron AVX CGEM & GT Alt-Az, Meade DS2000 Cameras: Canon T3i (x2), ASI120MC Binos: 10X50,10.5X70,15X70 (x2), 25X100 EPs: ES: 21 100°, 30 82° X-Cels: 9, 12, 18, 25 Clubs: RCA & HAS
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#12

Post by Refractordude » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:55 pm

There is a market for everything being sold or they would not have made it. Some people like and can afford such gadgets. Most buyers probably never owned a telescope before.
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#13

Post by SkyHiker » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:04 am

Bigzmey wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:29 pm
I checked some feedback on CN and the thing actually works. I am impressed. :lol:
I checked it on CN too and it doesn't look too bad! From what I read it takes short exposures indeed, one mentioned 10 s. The stars seemed round and the objects dead center, in the links that worked. But, nah...
... Henk. :D Telescopes: 6" Mak-Newt (Comet Hunter), ES ED127CF, ES ED80, Zhumell Z12, Coulter Odyssey 10, AT6RC, Venture RX-7, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S, AVX, LXD55, Tiltall, Cameras: Fuji X-a1, Canon SX40, Xt, XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: Dob and camera barndoor trackers, afocal adapter, Dob with foldable base and Az/Alt setting circles, Accessories: SSAG, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: DSS, ImageMagick, PHD, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#14

Post by AntennaGuy » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:22 am

JayTee wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:49 pm
OPT give us a better account of its capabilities and description. I still think it's too expensive for an 80mm APO. Check this out.
https://optcorp.com/products/vaonis-ste ... -telescope
Cheers,
JT
At OPT, it says "...Choose your next destination from a catalog of over a hundred celestial objects." Um... "over a hundred" ?
That immediately reminded me of:
http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/21 ... _sagan.gif
* Celestron C6 on a Twilight 1 Alt-Az mount
* Meade 323 refractor on a manual equatorial mount.
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#15

Post by DeanD » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:18 am

Sorry for all those who love it, but I think it is just plain ugly! ;) Plus, it is an 80mm f5 ED: I am not sure that it would really be an Apo.

I reckon I could think of a few other things to spend something like $US4500 (including delivery to me) on. That is getting up towards Questar territory, and quite a bit more than the new AP Stowaway (not that you could ever get one...).

Definitely a "No!" from the finance department!

- Dean
Telescopes: 12" f5 dob, Celestron CPC800, 150mmf5 Celestron achro, Tak TSA102, TV76, ETX125...
Binos: Tak 22x60, Swarovski 8x30 Habicht, FB 25x100, Orion Regulux 15x70...
Eyepieces: way too many (is that possible?), but I do like my TV 32mm plossl, 13mm Nagler T6, 27mm Panoptic and 3-6mm Nagler zoom, plus Fujiyama 18mm and 25mm orthos and Tak 7.5mm LE
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#16

Post by notFritzArgelander » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:25 am

Refractordude wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:55 pm
There is a market for everything being sold or they would not have made it. Some people like and can afford such gadgets. Most buyers probably never owned a telescope before.
There are failed products though.... Lead balloons, Edsels, hydrogen filled dirigibles,.....
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#17

Post by notFritzArgelander » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:27 am

DeanD wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:18 am
Sorry for all those who love it, but I think it is just plain ugly! ;) Plus, it is an 80mm f5 ED: I am not sure that it would really be an Apo.

I reckon I could think of a few other things to spend something like $US4500 (including delivery to me) on. That is getting up towards Questar territory, and quite a bit more than the new AP Stowaway (not that you could ever get one...).

Definitely a "No!" from the finance department!

- Dean
My finance department's CEO happens to be yours truly and echoes yours but with expletives attached.....
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#18

Post by Arsene37 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:58 am

Hi !
UlteriorModem wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:05 pm
Can it also account for field rotation?
They say : "Auto-Focusing: High-end stepper motors keep the target inside the field of view despite the earth's rotation, focus automatically on the stars and rotate the camera sensor to offset the azimuthal field rotation. STELLINA never loses track of your observation target!"
I wonder if it makes also coffee ? :popcorn:
The next step will be : "Observing Heavens Without Any Observer" !
Clear skies.
Arsène
Petzval quadruplet 152/760 on iOptron CEM25P — XX12 Orion Skyquest — 5.5" Celestron Comet Catcher (40 years old) — Perl-Vixen 130 mm/720 mm EQ — 8 mmm, 17mm and 31 mm aspheric Hyperion — BST Explorer ED 5 mm — Baader MPCC II — Leica EP 20x-60x — 2x Barlow — TS Optics Binoculars 20x80 Triplet.
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#19

Post by Refractordude » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:28 pm

notFritzArgelander wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:25 am
Refractordude wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:55 pm
There is a market for everything being sold or they would not have made it. Some people like and can afford such gadgets. Most buyers probably never owned a telescope before.
There are failed products though.... Lead balloons, Edsels, hydrogen filled dirigibles,.....
Remember Pet Rocks, they sold like crazy. Yes it might fail, but it may be a hit also. Perhaps with the Jet Set crowd.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/pet-rock-capt ... d=30041318
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rock.PNG
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Re: If you insist, they will push the buttons for you.....

#20

Post by bladekeeper » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:57 pm

To quote Wayne from Letterkenny:

"It's a hard life pickin' stones and pullin' teats..."

Wait, wrong quote.

Let's see...ah yes!

"Hard no."
Bryan
Scopes: Apertura AD12 f/5; Celestron C6-R f/8; ES AR127 f/6.4; ES AR127 f/9.4; Stellarvue SV102T f/7; ES AR102 f/9.8; iOptron MC90 f/13.3; Orion ST80A f/5; Celestron Premium 80 f/11.4; Celestron C80 f/11.4; Unitron Model 142 f/16; Meade NG60 f/10
Mounts: Celestron AVX; Bresser EXOS-2; ES Twilight I; ES Twilight II; iOptron Cube-G; AZ3/wood tripod; Vixen Polaris
Binoculars: Pentax PCF WP II 10×50, Bresser Corvette 10×50, Bresser Hunter 16×50 and 8×40, Garrett Gemini 12×60 LW, Gordon 10×50, Apogee 20×100

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