Celestron Origin "Intelligent home observatory"- is it just me?

[DeanD]

Hi all,

I was just looking at an ad. for the new 6" Celestron Origin. I see that it says "Stargazing and astro-imaging redefined", and "replaces both visual observing and astro-imaging with one grab and go package". It has "AI" built-in processing, so in seconds you get an image on your "smart phone" that is better than you can possibly see...

Apparently this is "a new journey of discovery", as you sit staring at your phone (because we don't do enough of that already), and the beast does it all for you. I think you probably have to take it outside yourself, and maybe tell it what you want it to "look" at (although it will of course do an automated tour for you...). Once you have done that, you, your telescope and your camera have been "replaced".

No need to know the sky or anything about any object it is pointing at, no need to know your telescope or eyepieces or mount, no need to know how to take and process images, no need to find a dark sky or even be outside once it is set up. Just look at your "smart phone" in your armchair in the warmth while you are also watching a streamed program and having your chips and wine.

Sounds like a great hobby, and lots of fun... not.

Is it just me, or are we going too far with "AI" and automated c..p?

I feel the need to clear my head: go outside with my binoculars/manual scope (that I made myself), look up, take a nice deep breath, switch off and enjoy the universe. Maybe even take out my high tech pad and pencil and make some notes or a sketch. I am sure I can find a few nice things to look at and contemplate...

- Dean

[Lady Fraktor]

I agree 100% Dean.
The more I see of all this electronics equipment the more I appreciate what I have already and I just keep hoping it will go away eventually.

[DeanD]

I agree 100% Dean.
The more I see of all this electronics equipment the more I appreciate what I have already and I just keep hoping it will go away eventually.

Sadly, that isn't going to happen. I for one am a bit apprehensive about where we are going in general with all this AI stuff...

[KingClinton]

A young generation that are used to a diet of 10-20 second tic tok videos are not going to have the patience to properly setup a manual scope and then still search for stuff.
It sucks, but it might get them interested enough.
For us old "Look through a eyepiece" dinosaurs it can be a easy grab and go option.
It will not go away, technology will advance with us or without us, best keep a eye on it.

[DeanD]

A young generation that are used to a diet of 10-20 second tic tok videos are not going to have the patience to properly setup a manual scope and then still search for stuff.
It sucks, but it might get them interested enough.
For us old "Look through a eyepiece" dinosaurs it can be a easy grab and go option.
It will not go away, technology will advance with us or without us, best keep a eye on it.

We (ie: everyone!!) certainly need to keep an eye on technological advances, the "e/acc" movement in particular: and its founders led(?) by "Beff Jezos", who see AI as "the next logical stage of evolution" which will solve all the world's problems; even if it potentially replaces us.

However, I'm not sure our ethics is advancing as quickly as our technology...

Enough of that! Back to my binoculars...

[Graeme1858]

A desperate attempt to sell a product. No effort at all to improve Celestron's standing in the world of astronomy. Looks like the marketing people have pushed out the astronomers and taken over at Celestron!

I expect it will catch on!

Graeme

[Gfamily]

I'm very happy to see new innovations like this if it increases the accessibility of astronomy.
It's difficult enough with the uncertainty of weather systems in many areas, and the encroachment of light pollution, without people like us making 'being out there with your eye at the eyepiece' the sine qua non of 'proper' observing.
No, no, no.
We're a broad church, and anything that gives people enjoyment and satisfaction is welcome.
/rant over

[Bigzmey]

I hear you Dean as I am visual observer myself. But sadly dark skies becoming a luxury a few people can afford.

I had to switch to goto at home because too few stars are available for navigation and in a few years I feel that I would have to switch to some form of EAA to continue observing DSOs.

If all in ones like the Origin let me do that with less time troubleshooting and more enjoying the targets I am all for progress.

[Xio1996]

I gave up visual astronomy 4 years ago and switched to EAA. I was totally blown away by the amount of colour, structure and faint objects that I could observe, compared to my decades of visual astronomy. It re-invigorated my enjoyment of the hobby.

Having "paid my dues" out under the night-sky, I do not feel any more entitled or a "real" astronomer, than a person who has not. I also don't like the assumption from some that young people are permanently glued to their social media feeds and devices. In my time in education, I found that a majority of young people were inquisitive and excited about exploring the world and universe around them. A tool that provides a one-stop solution for anybody to view the universe sounds pretty good to me.

The more people that are engaged and enjoying the hobby of astronomy the more people will voice concerns over the ever encroaching light pollution. The more people who start to understand the complete insignificance of our planet on the cosmic scale, but also its (current) uniqueness and fragility. The more people, hopefully, will raise concerns and seek solutions to how we manage our planet for the benefit of all.

The availability of "smart" telescopes such as the Seestar, Dwarf II and even the more expensive offerings should be viewed, in my opinion, in a positive light.

I understand that my views expressed above could be considered naive in the context of the larger issue of AI, but I am passionate about getting more people involved in this amazing hobby.

Have fun.

Pete

P.S. I love viewing all the smart telescope images in the Sky Searchers EAA forum. I'm sure the people who use these amazing tools, really enjoy exploring the technology and the universe.

[Gordon]

With the majority of people living in large cities with light pollution, their only option was to haul out equipment, miles away to an area where they can enjoy visual. I'm lucky enough to live in one of those mid-dark sky locations so that I can do both!

I have the SeeStar S50 and I'm having a blast with it. Simple to set up, simple to use. And very capable in heavily light polluted cities. I can see why they are marketing it, and it's selling. Do I still do 'visual'? Yes, but it's nice to have the best of both.

[Thefatkitty]

I'm all for EAA. Others have mentioned the increasing LP, and I agree. I used to be able to pick out Andromeda from here on a clear winter night. That was 16 years ago. Now? Not so much anymore, I need bino's to see it, if at all.

One of the reasons I got into solar was because I can see a star without LP getting in the way! And as for an EAA scope, I do see that in my future for the night time. Otherwise I'm going to have to pack things up, drive a while, find a set up spot... It was fun, 20 years ago. Age doesn't help with that now

As for the younger generation, I could see this working out well. @Gordon , I showed Sarah (my almost 19 year old daughter) a few of the pics you'd taken with your Seestar, as well as the processes involved. This generation loves their tech, she was amazed.
Oh yeah, and she wants me to get one. I can see her using it as much as me!!

Just my $0.02

All the best,

[DeanD]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses folks. I must admit I do use a go-to mount, although often so I can then orient a push-to as well!

I guess the ad for the Origin got my goat, as I had also recently read about the efforts of the IT industry to advance AI. This seems to be led by the "e/acc" (ie: "effective accelerationism") movement, which sees the need to push on regardless towards a "post-shortage" (!!??) tech utopia. I use the word "regardless" very deliberately...

When I read the ad, which says "replaces...visual...", my antennae went into overdrive. This is obviously a whole, much bigger area for discussion which I really don't want to get into at present (and is way outside the scope of this hobby forum!), but suffice to say I have a real concern that we are distancing ourselves from our natural world more and more. I believe this to be unhealthy for us as individuals and as a species- and this is one of the reasons that I work as a volunteer Park Ranger, I help out with revegetation and regeneration programs, I advocate for better lighting policies etc. I also "head bush" as often as I can to regenerate myself by spending time in nature- both on the ground and the universe above- and I am more than happy to turn off my mobile phone. BTW, I have also spent most of the last 20 years educating over 200,000 children and adults about the universe (including using tech to run a portable planetarium), and running many dozens of star viewing nights. I am well aware of the "wow" factors for young people (and older!), both with advanced tech and "low" tech (ie: using our eyes).

I know I am in the minority, but I have concerns about a future dominated by technology and degrading the natural world. I guess for me it says volumes that the biggest advances in technology occur through military spending. Ethics (and sometimes even common sense) seems to me to take a back burner.

Technology can be a wonderful tool, but when technology is in the driving seat I am not so sure.

Sorry folks, enough of a rant! Enjoy whatever way your hobby runs, and keep looking up!

All the best,

Dean

[DeanD]

PS: Thanks all for respectful comments. I am glad I raised this on this forum, and not another (unnamed) one...

Have a good one!

[Xio1996]

Hi Dean,

I replied to your post concerning the “Celestron Origin” telescope and I thank you for liking my post.

I also like going outside and taking in the night sky. I was brought up in the house I now occupy. I remember wandering outside as a youngster and not being able to see my hand in front of my face. Now 50 years later, back in the same house, I can almost read a book under the light pollution!

The concern you posted is valid. However, my personal opinion is that we can use technology in a way that benefits both the planet and even our lowly hobby of astronomy. You have educated many people to take an interest in the world around them. This will pay dividends in the future.

If we all, like you, encourage people to see with their own eyes. Through an eyepiece or a screen, the beauty and wonder of the night skies. Then hopefully, this will bring them to understand the importance of maintaining and enhancing the unique world in which we live.

Many thanks for your post.

Pete a fellow CPC-800 owner

[bwana4swahili]

... Is it just me, or are we going too far with "AI" and automated c..p?...
- Dean

After 50+ years of astronomy and astro-imaging the Celestron Origin is EXACTLY the imaging system I'm looking for. Automated, easy to use, reasonable quality and a 6" RASA f/2.2 scope. What more could one ask for?

bwa

[chris_g]

I'm very happy to see new innovations like this if it increases the accessibility of astronomy.
It's difficult enough with the uncertainty of weather systems in many areas, and the encroachment of light pollution, without people like us making 'being out there with your eye at the eyepiece' the sine qua non of 'proper' observing.
No, no, no.
We're a broad church, and anything that gives people enjoyment and satisfaction is welcome.
/rant over

I am high tech last of the boomers and love integrating it all together. Lots of fun for me. Thank you for the rant!



Clear Skies,
Chris

[jrkirkham]

I have no problems with EAA. After years of star hopping I switched to goto when I developed eye problems. After years of visual I started appreciating the benefits a camera could add to my projects. I do have some questions about the limits of current smart scopes. The rest of you my be able to fill in my gaps here.

The current smart scopes are marketed as push button astrophotography. What about people who like to explore? Can they be aimed by coordinates? If I wanted to take shots of patches of sky to detect the movements of asteroids is possible? Could I hunt for unnamed double stars? I understand that there will be a slight lag that doesn't occur in visual or when tethered to a computer. I wouldn't want to spend too much for a system that doesn't have those capabilities.

That being said it doesn't seem like the smaller smart scopes cost that much and I suspicion Celestron's Origin will have some of those abilities. I have thought about this a lot. Do the rest of you know about the capabilities of smart scopes?

[Gordon]

I have no problems with EAA. After years of star hopping I switched to goto when I developed eye problems. After years of visual I started appreciating the benefits a camera could add to my projects. I do have some questions about the limits of current smart scopes. The rest of you my be able to fill in my gaps here.

The current smart scopes are marketed as push button astrophotography. What about people who like to explore? Can they be aimed by coordinates? If I wanted to take shots of patches of sky to detect the movements of asteroids is possible? Could I hunt for unnamed double stars? I understand that there will be a slight lag that doesn't occur in visual or when tethered to a computer. I wouldn't want to spend too much for a system that doesn't have those capabilities.

That being said it doesn't seem like the smaller smart scopes cost that much and I suspicion Celestron's Origin will have some of those abilities. I have thought about this a lot. Do the rest of you know about the capabilities of smart scopes?

I run my SeeStar with an Ipad, you can use an Iphone but the smaller screen is difficult for those of us with 'older eyes'. You can use an Android phone also.

From the SeeStar page.
"Seestar App and Object Database
You can use your smartphone or tablet as a telescope command center! With just a few clicks, you will have access to SeeStar's incredible star and deep sky object database, which includes lists and detailed information about your chosen celestial target! App Device Requirements: iOS/ iPadOS - Device must be running at least OS 12, and have 6GB or more of onboard RAM; Android - Device must be running at least Android 8, and have 6GB or more of onboard RAM."

Because of it being 'alt-az' they limit the exposure times to 10 sec / 20 sec / 30 sec the idea is to stack lots of images. Everything is pretty automatic but it can also save the individual .fits files so you can download and stack them using whatever processing software you wish. For the money and ease of use, I really like it.

Does it take the place of a full size setup? No, but for what it is it works great!

[smp]

I'm 72 this year and have difficulties with my legs and feet. I'm also very tired of battling with the mosquitos during the warm months, and freezing my butt off during the cold months.

In the spring of 2022, I purchased my Stellina. In the following year, I logged something on the order of 50 observing sessions with EAA, versus maybe 10-12 per year before my purchase. This has allowed me to do far more observing than I had been able to do, and I'm talking about only doing astronomy from my driveway. For me, it's not about knowing the sky, it's about being able to see things as more than the little faint fuzzies I grew up in astronomy with.

I love astronomy and I love observing. No doubt, there is a great thrill at the eyepiece when you find something out there in the universe. Still is for me. However, from the point of view of getting to see objects I have only dreamed about until now, EAA is the key.

smp

[AstroBee]

One of our club members was at a recent event we did for the public. Last time I saw him pre-Covid, he had his beautiful handmade 16" dob that he built from scratch. He didn't grind the mirrors, they were purchased.
I had not seen him in several years now and this past weekend I found out why. His health is failing and he was breathing on a portable oxygen tank. He told me he had to sell the 16" dob but here he was with his Vespera, still enjoying the hobby and sharing views on his iPad with the public.