Can't Decide 8SE or CPC 800 GPS SCT

[Flyhigh7]

I'm still leaning towards the Celestron 8 Edge HD Package as I like the whole system being from the same mfg.

The iOptron is a bit more than I need as I won't be changing Telescopes after this purchase, AP is a low priority, and it is costly and is Belt driven. I've had problems with belt driven EQ mount with my 6" and I won't be adding a secondary payload.

I'm also looking at the Meade 8" LX90 ACF with an EQ wedge. The package is light but a few pounds heavier than the EV 8 Edge Package. I still have a few more reviews to read and the reviews read so far indicate for visual use the Edge HD 8 will outperform the Meade 8 LX90. If this is true than the8 EV Edge HD will be my choice.

Any experience with Meade LX90?

[Bigzmey]

With Meade 8" LX90 ACF you are circling back to the fork design. Why not CPC 800 GPS then?

[Flyhigh7]

LOL! I am, ain't I. But you guys have been pointing stuff out that is subconsciously steering my decision. Good question and the reasons are the 42 lbs of Tube + attached Mount Head I'd need to lug in and out and assemble onto the Tripod, the lack of a built in battery, No StarSense feature, and I do like the Edge HD optics over the CPC. It's mostly the weight and if I have to lug the 42 lbs of Mount Head with Tube in and out I'd prefer lugging the 42 lbs of the total package assembled in and out. So for $355 more I get a package easier and lighter to set up, a built in battery, better tube optics with vents, and StarSense. I also like being able to release the clutch and point manually like I used to do with the 6". Took more time to find stuff but I learned the sky well. Just too bad now 40 years later, I have forgot what I learned about the sky. That's why I just bought the Skymaster 15*70 Binoculars.

I've read mixed reviews as far as the Edge HD being worth the extra money comparing it to the plain EV8. Some say the Edge HD is better visually while some say it's not better enough for the extra cost UNLESS you are doing AP. They all agree the Edge HD with an EQ mount is the answer if you are serious about AP.

If I were planning on AP I'd probably go with 8"Edge HD on an EQ mount like maybe the Advanced VX8 and that gets me back to a 61 lbs package that I'm trying to avoid.

By the way, the reviews I've read are saying the Edge HD is a little better than the Meade LX90 even though the LX90 spec says it's Limiting Stellar Magnitude is 14.2 while the Edge HD is 14.

[Bigzmey]

In the argument between plain and Edge HD both sides are right. For a casual observer looking at easy targets the difference would not be that obvious, for someone who is pushing their telescopes to the limit the difference is quite evident.

But look at that from this angle. Everybody agrees that Edge HD got better optics, the question they ask if it worth extra money?

This is a general issue with consumer technology. One want to have a balance between the price and performance and only you can decide where it lies.

There is another issue, quality control. If you look on forums you would see that even for plain SCTs opinions are split. Some love them and some say stay away, they are poor performers. While over they years SCTs got consistently better they are not made to the same specifications as Edge. They don't spend the same time configuring the corrector plates for plain SCTs to minimize aberrations. In fact some claim they don't configure corrector plates for each plain SCT at all. They do much better job on Edge, because it is a premium product with tighter specs.

[Flyhigh7]

Good and timely advice Bigzmey. Timely because I saw some reviews comparing the EV8 Vs EV 8 Edge HD. I think you are right about the quality control issues as many of the reviews of the various Telescopes I've been researching say that due to QC issues it's really pot luck if you get a great tube as Quality control between the same type units vary.

I actually would like to go for the Evolution 9.25 as it has a sturdier EV mount and love the bigger aperture but it's just too heavy for this retired 73 yr old fart and I have to agree with the many comments I've read that say the easier it is to set up, the more you'll use it or the harder it is to set up the more it will stay inside.

Still leaning towards the Evolution 8 Edge HD / Starsense. I can get that 42 lbs fully assembled in and out fairly easily, don't have to worry about power or power cords and I'll have the best optics in an 8".

With my 6" I placed the EQ mount on 2" tall cement blocks so I won't have to level all the time, however, I've read more than once that mounts are more stable sitting directly on grass. Really? Wouldn't the weight of the kit slowly sink into the grass and dirt over time throwing off alignment? That's the other reason I thought I should set the 6" up on the cement blocks.

[Bigzmey]

It is important to have a scope you can comfortably handle. Otherwise, you will start looking for an excuse not to observe.

Not sure about the grass, I have been observing of concrete most of time.

[Flyhigh7]

I was just reading up on focal ratios and I just realized that the reason my 6" Reflector showed Andromeda and it's companion galaxy and a few nebula fairly bright MAY HAVE been due to it having a f/5 or f/7 focal ratio. I don't remember what eyepieces I was using back then but they were quality so now I wonder if the f/10 EV 8 Edge may not be much brighter than the 6" f/5. That 6" was able to see the ice caps on mars, Jupiter's Red spot, M13 which is the most beautiful Globular. It did disappoint regarding Saturn's rings. I couldn't make out any ring divisions and the area between the planet and the inner ring was blurry. Please tell me the 8" will perform better.

[Bigzmey]

Don't warry, 8" will be all around better. It is just matter of paring it with right EPs. With good quality diagonal and EP you will be able to resolve extra levels of details. Not just the red spot but fine details within the red spot. Of cause giving that your seeing is good.

[Flyhigh7]

Of cause giving that your seeing is good.

A key point indeed. I wonder when I see the resolution specs of various telescopes as the atmosphere 'noise' and seeing conditions often make them unachievable.

[OzEclipse]

Don't warry, 8" will be all around better. It is just matter of paring it with right EPs. With good quality diagonal and EP you will be able to resolve extra levels of details. Not just the red spot but fine details within the red spot. Of cause giving that your seeing is good.

Flyhigh,
Apparent brightness is not a function of f ratio. Area of the primary and magnification are the only two things.

If you compare an 8" f10 scope with a 40mm eyepiece and an 8" f5 scope with a 20mm eyepiece:-
Both scopes will have a magnification of 50x,
Both scopes will have a 4mm exit pupil
Provided both eyepieces have the same apparent field of view, then the true field of view will be the same.

If both scopes the same light transmission, the area of the formed image on your retina is the same consequently, both will show the object with the same surface brightness.

Joe

[Bigzmey]

That's correct. In my desert environment seeing typically poor and I would only get a few nights per year where I can take full advantage of the aperture of my big scopes on planets and Moon. But those nights are really fantastic.

Good part is that even at poor seeing you will take full advantage of the aperture on DSOs.

[Bigzmey]

Don't warry, 8" will be all around better. It is just matter of paring it with right EPs. With good quality diagonal and EP you will be able to resolve extra levels of details. Not just the red spot but fine details within the red spot. Of cause giving that your seeing is good.

Flyhigh,
Apparent brightness is not a function of f ratio. Area of the primary and magnification are the only two things.

If you compare an 8" f10 scope with a 40mm eyepiece and an 8" f5 scope with a 20mm eyepiece:-
Both scopes will have a magnification of 50x,
Both scopes will have a 4mm exit pupil
Provided both eyepieces have the same apparent field of view, then the true field of view will be the same.

If both scopes the same light transmission, the area of the formed image on your retina is the same consequently, both will show the object with the same surface brightness.

Joe

What Joe says! And to take it one step farther, under the same magnification 8" scope will show brighter image compared to 6" scope no matter how fast or slow those scopes are.

[Flyhigh7]

Thank you both for calming my nerves. It seems the more I research, the more I find I don't know and the more I question myself. But thanks to you guys and this forum I am S L O W L Y learning. I've already written three pages of notes and given the Celestron website more hits than it normally receives in a month but that's because I have to keep going back to some of the same pages again and again as my memory ain't what it used to be.

I hate going out in cold weather so I can honestly say if it were spring or summer I would have ordered the EV 8 Edge by now. Thank you all for being so patient with me. You guys and this forum are great!

[OzEclipse]

That's correct. In my desert environment seeing typically poor and I would only get a few nights per year where I can take full advantage of the aperture of my big scopes on planets and Moon. But those nights are really fantastic.

Good part is that even at poor seeing you will take full advantage of the aperture on DSOs.

I couldn't agree more. It doesn't matter how few nights have seeing that let you achieve maximum resolution, you will remember those nights. Ok, so I'm a bit of a freak for remembering dates, but I clearly recall two nights in Mid April and Mid May of 1984 (Mars, Jupiter,, & Saturn) and Monday October 13, 2020 (Mars) when I had incredibly stable seeing and enjoyed the finest views of Mars that I have ever enjoyed. On that night in 2020, I could resolve Valles Marinaris, in parts it is less than 0.5 arc second wide and I could easily resolve it. On that night it stretched right across the centre 60% of planet's longitude. I have had other nights of good and even excellent seeing but those incredible, "eyes popping out of my head," nights will stay with me forever!

Joe

[Flyhigh7]

Woke up thinking before I pull the trigger on an EV 8 Edge HD, I should at least satisfy my aperture fever and take another look at the Celestron 9.25 Options. So after several reviews and additional research I've found that for a few dollars less than the Evolution 8 Edge HD, I can go up a notch for the Evolution 9.25 and get a bigger aperture, a heavier Mount/Tripod with build in battery but oh yea, there is that weight thing.

I can handle 42 pounds and don't want to be carrying much more than that and this is why I liked the EV8 Edge setup. BUT, with the EV 9.25 I can keep the 9.25 tube on the Mount head (36 lbs combined) and carry that out to the Tripod (26.6 lbs) after setting and leveling the tripod, then set the Mount Head/Tube onto the Tripod. That I can handle and it may be easier in that even though it requires 2 trips to my yard, each trip is carrying a smaller weight than the 42 lbs of the assembled Evolution 8 Edge HD.

What do you guys think about this?

[Bigzmey]

I had 11" SCT for a short time. That was a heavy beast and too much for me to handle. 9.25" SCT on the other hand while heavier than 8" I can handle comfortably.

I carry my setup in 3 pieces: OTA, mount head and tripod with ease. In fact I carry my setup in 3 pieces for all my scopes big or small. Less danger to damage the scope.

Stepping from 6" to 9.25" will give you larger aperture increase. I say go for it! The only potential drawback is it will take more room in your car than 8"

[Bigzmey]

Another consideration for 9.25" I don't know how well Evolution mount will handle it. With accessories the weight would be close to the 25lb mount limit.

[Flyhigh7]

Another consideration for 9.25" I don't know how well Evolution mount will handle it. With accessories the weight would be close to the 25lb mount limit.

Thanks Bigzmey. I think the big plus with EV 9.25 over the EV 8 Edge HD asside from aperture is the sturdier Mount but you are right about the 9.25 maxing out at 25 lbs payload which by the way the EV 8" Mount has smaller diameter legs but it also maxes out at 25 lbs so this makes me think it may be the mount head that is what is maxing out. Maybe just a dumb guess but both heads look the same.

You are right about the 9.25 being close to the limit as the 9.25 EV Tube weight is 20 lbs leaving only 5 lbs additional available. I do plan on trying out 2" diagonal with 2" EPs at some point but at this time I have no intention of doing any AP. With the 6" I was tempted to do some AP after a few years but the tracking was screwing up my long exposure and I wasn't that into it to try to correct the problem.

If I do decide to get into AP a few years later I'll just buy a better Mount at that time. I read a review from a man who has been using this same 9.25 EV set up for several years and he takes long exposure AP with it and claims he's never had any problems with it.

The only complaints I'm seeing is for the whole EV line regarding the StarPortal App Crashing after a few hours requiring a full restart and re-alignment.

So: I think convinced on the EV 9.25 and High Point Scientific sells the EV 9.25 in a bundle with a free 30 Minute product set up by a Gear Expert, Astrozap 9.25 Dew Shield, and a Aperture Ultimate Plossl EP Kit for $3,049.00

Think this is a decent deal? Non bundle it cost $2849.00. Don't care too much about the EP Kit as I'd rather have the wide angle Kit they give you with the EV 8 Edge HD Bundle. Wonder If I can talk them into switching the Kit.

[Bigzmey]

I would rather put that $200 towards diagonal or a good quality EP.

I make all my dew shields from 5mm black crafting foam. I find vendors SCT dew shields too thing and too short for the purpose. I aim for at least 2x aperture length for dew shields. Crafting foam isolates better than the faux leather they use which results in better protection from dew. Here is a pic of my Edge 9.25" with home-made dew shield on the right and 6" short tube refractor also with home-made dew shield on the left.

[Flyhigh7]

What a beautiful setup Bigzmey. How do you like the motorized Focus on your 9.25 Edge HD?

Maybe I'll put that $200.00 towards a Wide Angle Kit. It's important to me to have a few wide angle lens because I like to start out low mag wide angle then slowly add magnification until I see no detail gain and start losing detail. Must haves for me are a good 2" Diagonal, a few Wide angle EPs Low Mag and a good 2X Barlow. Then I'll take my time researching what you experts like before slowly add the expensive top notch EPs.

What are your favorites deep space EPs for the 9.25 Edge HD? Can you make a recommendation for a good quality 1.25" EP in the 62 to 70 mm range and in Wide Angle?