New to all of this

[Richard]

Oz Eclipse, I may have made an ignorant mistake in buying this scope. Admittedly, I know little to nothing about telescopes. As mentioned I had the reflector, but in what little research I did, I found that reflectors require a but more care & maintenance (collimation) & I thought I'd get the refractor to get around all that.
But I took my telescope out last night because I saw Saturn & figured I'd take a look & I was quite disappointed. Possibly due to me not knowing what I was doing, but I tried the 25mm with & without the 2x Barlow & then the 10mm the same way & I couldn't see more than a bright blob.
My old reflector I at least saw the shape of an orb with a ring (not clear, but you could tell what it was).
I'm debating returning it while I can & saving up for something bigger/better. I don't know.

Hi Joe,

If your 102 mm refractor is an achromat, it may be suffering from chromatic aberration at powers high enough to view Saturn well. One of my telescopes, my Bresser AR102s 102 mm refractor, was designed for low power views of comets. Saturn was a blob. However, I made a 60 mm aperture mask made from a plastic yogurt lid cleared it up perfectly, enough to see the Cassini Gap clearly. You might try an aperture mask to see if it clears things up for you.

I have never seen a refractor like that , looks like a reflector!

[The Wave Catcher]

[/quote]
I have never seen a refractor like that , looks like a reflector!
[/quote]

Yes, it does. People often think I have my Newtonian upside down. Apparently it is a one of a kind. It is a refractor with an internal mirror so no diagonal is needed. Maybe it should be called a reflactor. It makes for a short and fast refractor, f/4.5. The mirror is easily collimated though I’ve never needed to. It was sold for several years as a package deal including a backpack, tripod - alt/az mount (Bresser Nano), and 7x50 binoculars. Listed at just under $500 US, I got it from Adorama for $250 during the pandemic. Shortly after that it was discontinued.

https://www.adorama.com/brar102s00.html

It’s a fast achromat designed for light gathering, wide field, and low power views. I used 60 mm aperture mask to turn it into a good f/7.65 planetary refractor.

The point of my response to Joe was to suggest he try an aperture mask to see if it clears Saturn’s image up for him. Achromats need a long focal length to minimize chromatic aberration but a mask will slow the scope down (larger f ratio) and clean up CA at the sacrifice of resolution, though CA destroys resolution at high powers so effectively it’ll have better resolution.

A fast achromat with a low power eyepiece can have very wide fields of views and pin-point stars.

[OzEclipse]

Oz Eclipse, I may have made an ignorant mistake in buying this scope. Admittedly, I know little to nothing about telescopes. As mentioned I had the reflector, but in what little research I did, I found that reflectors require a but more care & maintenance (collimation) & I thought I'd get the refractor to get around all that.
But I took my telescope out last night because I saw Saturn & figured I'd take a look & I was quite disappointed. Possibly due to me not knowing what I was doing, but I tried the 25mm with & without the 2x Barlow & then the 10mm the same way & I couldn't see more than a bright blob.
My old reflector I at least saw the shape of an orb with a ring (not clear, but you could tell what it was).
I'm debating returning it while I can & saving up for something bigger/better. I don't know.

Hi Joe,
There are a many reasons why you may not be getting a sharply focused image........

John Baars mentioned using the diagonal to focus. I want to expand on this. Most refractors do not have enough extension in their focuser alone to bring the telescope to infinity focus for straight through viewing. If you insert an eyepiece and look straight through, you can't wind the focuser out far enough to make focus. This could be the blob you are seeing, an out of focus image. That is because the manufacturer has made allowance for the diagonal (right angle viewer) included with your scope to be used all the time. Make sure you have the diagonal inserted when you try to use the telescope. As John said, you can focus on a distant tree or building during the day to confirm that you can achieve focus.

Optical realities
Your refractor objective has a doublet objective. That means the manufacturer, has to grind, polish and figure and coat 4 optical surfaces compared to one on a reflector. That is why, for a set price point, reflectors are usually a better buy. I have no experience with your particular telescope so the following comments are very general.

A moderately high quality 4" refractor probably costs 3-4 times what you paid just for the tube without a mounting. The really high quality refractors are triplets, three glass elements with six surfaces to grind, polish and figure and coat and can cost 10-15 times what you paid.

The telescope objective may be perfectly ok but the eyepieces supplied might be of very low quality. They are not going to give you high quality eyepieces in a budget package. The easiest way to check this is to take your scope to an astronomy club field night, ask if someone will let you try their higher quality eyepieces. If you can't access a club field night, members here probably have some suggestions of cheaper quality eyepieces you can buy or perhaps another Sky Searchers Florida based member could organise an observing session with you?


Magnification

The quality of the optics and the optical resolution (based on diameter of the objective), limit the maximum magnification that can be used. Atmospheric instability limits this further. When the atmosphere is perfectly stable, you can use up to the optical magnification limit. When it is unstable, your magnification is limited. The nominal limit is about 50-60 times per inch of aperture. With a good quality 4 inch telescope, the nominal limit with good optics under perfect atmospheric conditions is about 200x(3.5mm eyepiece) to 240x (3mm eyepiece).

With your scope, the optics are relatively cheap and probably more suited for low power, wide field deep sky observing. If you can return it and get a full refund, for about the same money, you can get a decent quality 8" dobsonian reflector that will give you much better higher magnified views of the Moon and planets as well as more light gathering to give better views of deep sky objects. You will lose portability and yes you may have to frequently collimate the scope. My 18" dob has to be assembled - base, poles, and secondary cage, it has to be collimated every time I set up. With practice, this process only takes 3-4 minutes and is no big deal. A solid tube Dobsonian may hold collimation and not need to be collimated every time.

Lack of portability can also be overrated. An 8" dob is not particularly heavy and easily fits into most medium size cars. If you want to take a whole family and an 8" dob, then this may be a consideration but otherwise, it's not a big consideration. An 8" dob has two main components, the base and the tube. The base on a Sky Watcher dob weighs about 25 lbs and the tube weighs about 20 lbs. Each are about the same weight as 2-3 gallons of water.

Good luck and keep asking questions.

Joe Cali

[JoeG]

John Baars,
Being the owner of a reflector, I assume you have tried all kinds of ways to focus? You have to use the diagonal too. ( this is probably new to you) Without it the view will be a blur. You can test this in daylight on a very far away object. If you still have a blurred view you can consider sending it back.

I have got some help & have a slightly better understanding of what I'm doing, long way to go
The Orion AstroView 102mm Refractor I have has been set up correctly. I believe the diagonal you speak of is the 90° piece before the eyepiece, if that's correct it is connected to the scope, so we should be good there.
I set up the finder scope to a red light atop the Sunshine skyway Bridge outside my back balcony & its roughly 7- 8 miles from me & I was able to see that just fine, even snapped some pics of it. I'm definitely gonna keep on trying, basically just getting started & maybe got a but frustrated.
This site has been so helpful & everyone is so friendly, I really appreciate all the help!

[JoeG]

Welcome to TSS Joe , well we dont know what size your 'old' reflector is , a 4.5 inch or 114mm is not such a small scope , when mounted on an EQ mount , you have been using it 20 odd years so is it 20 Years old ?
Your new scope a 102 refractor is a fine scope , I personally thing they are the sweet spot and should be much better than same size any other design if made well, I used to have a 102 Skywatcher refractor and was a dog , similar problems to what you say the CA was just too much for all the bright planets , but if you get a good one , I had 3 a WO 80 ed , Tasco 10-te and a Tasco 7-te , all fantastic
I dont have any refractors as I prefer compound scopes as they travel easier as my LP stops me from doing much at home

Thanks Richard, I'm sorry I forgot to mention the older reflector I have is a Bushnell # 78-8831 76mm Reflector on an alt/az mount & I barely ever treated it the way I should have, lost the caps early on so dust, humidity, dirt, stuff in my trunk during transports & such made it quite unusable. + I never know about collimation so there's that.
As for my new scope, I haven't had much time due to cloudy sky's to try much, but what little I have done doesn't seem very good & I'm wondering of I should return it for something bigger, better or if this one cn be used for things I'm interested in (viewing planets, deeper space & also some astrophotography as well (if that's even possible). So I'm kind of in a jam, because I only have until December 29 for the 30 day return, but I'm not sure if i even gave it a fair chance. So, I'm confused. & it doesn't help that I'm just really getting started in all of this & have zero clue what I'm trying to accomplish or how exactly to do it. Thanks for your response!

[SkyHiker]

As for my new scope, I haven't had much time due to cloudy sky's to try much, but what little I have done doesn't seem very good & I'm wondering of I should return it for something bigger, better or if this one cn be used for things I'm interested in (viewing planets, deeper space & also some astrophotography as well (if that's even possible). So I'm kind of in a jam, because I only have until December 29 for the 30 day return, but I'm not sure if i even gave it a fair chance. So, I'm confused. & it doesn't help that I'm just really getting started in all of this & have zero clue what I'm trying to accomplish or how exactly to do it. Thanks for your response!

My experience with Orion is that they provide good value for the money. When searching the reviews, I see that the comments praise the sharp optics. The focal length is long enough, and cheap plossl eyepieces are usually good enough to get started.

Another issue is the atmospheric conditions. While I am probably at the bottom of the totem pole for observing, one night I saw Jupiter razor sharp with my Z12, the next night it was all washed out, observing from the same place.

Altogether I think your gear may not be the problem. Maybe it was the atmosphere, maybe it was dew, maybe it was bad focus. If you can look at a remote object in the daytime and get sharp views then it should work at night, too.

[JayTee]

This is one of many weather sites I refer to before going out to observe. It will help you set your expectations.

https://www.astrospheric.com/

[JoeG]

I think I'm doing something wrong in answering in this forum.
When someone says or asks me something about my post I click on the " quote marks & type my answer. I get a notification saying it has to be ok'd (paraphrasing), but it's been days & I haven't seen my replys yet.

[helicon]

I think I'm doing something wrong in answering in this forum.
When someone says or asks me something about my post I click on the " quote marks & type my answer. I get a notification saying it has to be ok'd (paraphrasing), but it's been days & I haven't seen my replys yet.

Hi Joe. What happens is that new members need to have their first 5 posts approved manually by the moderation team. This discourages spammers. So now you have 5 posts (including the one I just approved) so you should be home free and have your posts show up immediately after hitting the submit button.

Edit: @JoeG I sent you a private message on this topic as well....

[JoeG]

I think I'm doing something wrong in answering in this forum.
When someone says or asks me something about my post I click on the " quote marks & type my answer. I get a notification saying it has to be ok'd (paraphrasing), but it's been days & I haven't seen my replys yet.

Hi Joe. What happens is that new members need to have their first 5 posts approved manually by the moderation team. This discourages spammers. So now you have 5 posts (including the one I just approved) so you should be home free and have your posts show up immediately after hitting the submit button.

Edit: @JoeG I sent you a private message on this topic as well....

Thank you so much! As I said before, everyone has been so helpful here & I appreciate it a lot!
I'll check your PM

PS - Another stupid question.
Where do I find your private message?

[helicon]

The envelope icon just beneath the masthead on the right side of the index page. Click on the red notice...