Buying the first telescope! I'm interested in deep space!

[Ethan]

Hello everyone! I live in Greece and I am interested in buying my first telescope. What interests me is deep space. Since this is my first telescope, I wouldn't want to pay more than $500, but I would like to get something that will keep my interest. I understand that how far I will be able to observe depends a lot on the money, so I would like the money I have available to translate into observing the maximum distance (relative to the money). From what I understand it is better to look for a reflecting / dobsonian telescope. With $500 can I observe much deeper than our solar system or will I have to go for more money? Also, what features should I focus on? I have been very excited about astronomy since I was a child and I am very much looking forward to my first telescope. Thank you very much in advance!!

[Lady Fraktor]

Hello Ethan and welcome.
A dobsonian will be a good choice for what you are looking for.
If € 500 is your budget I would recommend something like the Omegon 150 mm here: https://www.astroshop.eu/telescopes/ome ... 00/p,50124
It is a versatile telescope and will show you a lot.
It does not come with the greatest eyepieces so you may have to get at least 1 wide field low power eyepiece to start with.

If you can extend the budget some more a 203 mm is a great deep sky telescope.

[Ethan]

Thank you very much for your answer! I found the dobsonian 8" at 580€ so its now my first choice. Some people say that a 10” instrument is the right compromise among cost, portability, and image quality but i know that the cost is a lot higher. I'm also thinking about something used just to buy something more value for money but i don't know if it's a good idea because I'm a beginner and i will not be able to test its condition. What do you think? I don't know anyone close to me for help and i don't have any astronomy club near me.

[SkyHiker]

Teleskopservice has some Bresser Dobs on sale, an 8" for E377 and a 10" for E554. Aperture is important, those look like good deals to me.

You may want to visit an astro party of a local club to see if you like visual observing. A Dob is the best value but it won't be useful for astrophotography.

[Ethan]

Thank you for the tips. Why dob aren't useful for astrophotography? What should I search if i want to use my camera also?

[Ethan]

From what I understand, astrophotography is a big and precise subject and it also needs to be assimilated first with observation, so for a start I will focus on simple observation which is like this and otherwise what excites me the most.

However, I was troubled by the fact that regardless of the telescope, distant objects appear as gray smudges. Unfortunately, I don't have any opportunities with the nearby astronomy club to go see and have an opinion.

Also will I need some specific base to observe distant objects due to the fact that the further away the faster they will leave my field of view?

[Lady Fraktor]

A dobsonian mount only moves in a up/ down, left/ right motion so cannot take the required long exposures required for deep sky imaging.
To do that you would require a equatorial mount which is considerably more expensive.

You could try imaging the brighter DSO such as the Orion Nebula or Pleiades with it though.

Most deep sky objects appear as smudges but with time you learn to train your eyes to see the various details like dust lanes, variations in brightness.
Visually you will never see a image even remotely close to a ESA image

[Ethan]

Im not thinking about photography, i wonder if i can just observe DSO with a dobsonian mount. Or i should go to something more expensive?

[Lady Fraktor]

For viewing deep sky objects the dobsonian is the best choice.
The design is simple so all of the cost goes into the mirrored surfaces.
You get a very nice, capable telescope at a low price.

If you have not done visual astronomy before I would not recommend going for something more expensive at the start.
Ease into the hobby and enjoy learning the objects you like to view.
Once you have been at it for a year, then think about if you need to upgrade to suit what you want to do.

[Bigzmey]

Welcome on board Ethan! Dobsonians give you the most aperture for the money and provide very stable observing platform. 8" or 10" is a good size depending on your budget and ability to handle large scopes. This is a good choice for visual.

Have you considered EAA? This is somewhere in between visual and AP. Look at these two products

viewtopic.php?t=30110

https://dwarflab.com/products/dwarf-2-s ... c4QAvD_BwE

[JayTee]

Hello Ethan and welcome to TSS.

Cheers,

[SkyHiker]

Thank you for the tips. Why dob aren't useful for astrophotography? What should I search if i want to use my camera also?

Ok it's not impossible for crazy people:

A better way might be using an equatorial platform, of which I have built one too, dual axis and autoguidable.

Like Lady Frac says, tracking is the issue. This can be done with an equatorial mount, or with an Alt/Az mount taking short exposures. Either way the tracking must be accurate to about 1 arc second. For that, an autoguider is almost an inevitable necessity. I am working on getting my EQ platform working well enough so I can actually do this with my 12" Dob.

If you are not interested in dark smudges, then I recommend going to a star party first before you spend your money. Even the brightest deep sky objects are smudges. Personally, I still find them interesting enough to own a Dob and take it to astro parties. If you want to see DSOs in their full glory, possibly in color, you need a Dob of at least 25" diameter.

For deep sky astrophotography, lucky enough you don't need much magnification. Recently there have been a slew of small telescopes with 50 to 70 mm aperture that can be operated on a lightweight mount that provide excellent results. To get a taste of it, there is this little gadget that works remarkably well and that is within your price range. Other telescopes will require a mount, field flattener, autoguider and computer control that pushes the budget up to $2K in the US.

I would still recommend getting a Dob of at least 8" but preferably 10" (beyond that it gets disproportionately heavy) and leave the astrophotography for later. It's nice to see things live and share it with others, which is what a Dob will let you do.

[Ethan]

Thank you all for your replies.

From what I understand, it's better not to spend a large amount on the first telescope and to get something that will make me learn the sky and learn what I want from a telescope, especially if I don't manage to be at some star-party or something similar to have an idea before I buy something.

[messier 111]

welcome to tss .

[OzEclipse]

Hi Ethan,
Given your stated budget, I agree with most of the others who have recommended an 8-10" dob for visual observing. Henk is a very clever guy and has engineering skills that many may not possess. So building a tracking platform for a dob is not a simple solution for astrophotography. The optical elements of most dobs are laid out for visual and won't allow many cameras to come to focus without modifying the position of the optical elements. If you wish to pursue astrophotography, that's a completely different question. There are no budget $500 setups that are both good for visual and astrophotography. Given your budget, concentrate on visual

The human eye has two sets of light receptors, cones give us our colour vision in bright light, rods are many thousands of times more sensitive for our night vision but are monochromatic. If you see colour through a telescope, it's because the object is bright enough to activate your cones. You see colour in some stars, planets. In my 18" telescope, I can only see the very faintest hint of red on a couple of the brightest nebulae. You will never see the sort of colour you see in photographs, even those taken with small amateur telescopes.

That does not mean you can't get a lot of enjoyment from an 8-10" telescope. You will need to recalibrate your expectations away from the spectacular colour photographs you see online. Under a dark sky, nebulae galaxies and globular clusters will come to life, just not in colour. The fine deatil and nuances you see are in the light, not the colour. In a light polluted city, the Moon, planets, double stars, and open star clusters should be your prime targets. Deep sky objects will be disappointing regardless of the size of the telescope. It's a simple problem of contrast, that the brightness of the nebula does not exceed the brightness of the sky in the city.

Joe

[Ethan]

Thank you everyone very much for your answers i appreciate it. I found a ''skywatcher dobsonian 8" pyrex'' used at 400€ and i'm thinking to buy it. In the feature can i use another mount to use the same telescope for astrophotography or is it better to go to something else?

[OzEclipse]

Thank you everyone very much for your answers i appreciate it. I found a ''skywatcher dobsonian 8" pyrex'' used at 400€ and i'm thinking to buy it. In the feature can i use another mount to use the same telescope for astrophotography or is it better to go to something else?

If it is a solid tube, you can buy tube rings and a saddle plate and mount it to a heavy duty EQ mount. However, a Newtonian designed for photography is equipped differently to the cheap visual instruments.

1. The focus point on a visual instrument is usually too close to the tube to allow DSLR cameras to focus. You may need to make modifications, move the primary mirror mounting point forward, install a bigger diagonal mirror.
2. The focuser on that telescope will probably not be sufficient quality to allow accurate focus and support of a heavy DSLR or astrocam.
3. The telescope tube, spider holding the secondary, or primary mirror cell, might not be strong enough to hold the image steady. Flexure is a problem with Newtonians. If the secondary moves during the exposure the stars will move even if the drive is accurate.
4. The focal length will be quite long. It's much easier to start and learn astrophotography with shorter camera lenses and short focus refractors then work your way up to long focal length astrophotography.

As has been mentioned, this is a good instrument for the visual observing you stated in your original post. Astrophotography is a specialised area and the equipment required is different.

Joe

[Bigzmey]

Thank you everyone very much for your answers i appreciate it. I found a ''skywatcher dobsonian 8" pyrex'' used at 400€ and i'm thinking to buy it. In the feature can i use another mount to use the same telescope for astrophotography or is it better to go to something else?

How expensive is to ship to your location? It seems that new 8" DOBs sell under 400€.

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/pr ... cuser.html

[Ylem]

Welcome to TSS Ethan, I also recommend a Dob between a 6-10" the main reason is you get a real sturdy and solid base for the money

You will be able to get some decent photos with a cell phone camera with a little patience, they even sell phone holders to help

[Ethan]

Thank you Bigzmey very much for that suggestion i couldnt find it my self, it seems nice and the cost in this link you sent me is 467 and with the shipping goes to 500 and is actually really good price from what i found in my general reaserch. I will think about it if 100E worth to buy a new one. But the truth is i dont know what are the main defferences beetween those two dobs ''SΚΥWΑΤCΗΕR Dobsonian 8 PYREX" ( https://planitario.gr/gr/dobsonian-8-pyrex.html) and ''Bresser Messier 8" Dobsonian'' (https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/pr ... cuser.html). Why the newone is better? Its something that it will make any defference? Thank you in advance!!