Upgrade my observatory

[Altocumulus]

I currently have a, roughly, 1.2mx1.2m wooden shed that rolls off to the north. It's about 2m high and undergone numerous iterations over the last 5 years or so. Contains an NEQ6-Pro on tripod. It's built on a mound of trampled down flattened building site rubble mixed with boulders - but it's still a mound with fall offs on all sides which makes it a mite awkward at times. But at least the council agree I can build it.
A much more open flat site is available - views almost 360 - but no you'll need permission to use that and as we have bats in the neighbourhood!

Ideas have been bouncing around for some months, and then my gorgeous wife said I could have a new observatory for my 70th! Cue quick discussions with observatory makers and equally quick change of mind - two long stories.

So my plans, as such, mean I'm on me own. Initial plans suggest 4m*3.8m to include a wee warm room, room I hope for two tripod mounts - but how to level the site, or prop up a base suitable (only one side would be needed, thought lay down concrete blocks (I have a number) and use strong legs? First thoughts are to use 6x2 treated timbers as the base and build up, tantalised shiplap cladding.

First question, ror or hinge roof - I mainly image Solar (@57North) - do I need full view given the North Pole would be used once a year for alignment. I can see E/S/N with a few obstacles. West is a no-go as I'm up against a warm stone barn. ror is doable, but is it necessary - it would be a long edge to move?

Well that's me started - I think!

[Graeme1858]

Good start Geoff!

As a ROR fan I would say go for a ROR! But Henk did a great job with his Hinge Roof. The choice between these two is partly financial. A 4mx3.8m ROR would be a substantial build.

You don't need to have direct line sight of Polaris to Polar Align. NINA and probably others too do an All Sky Polar Align.

Looking forward to watching this evolve.

Graeme

[Altocumulus]

Eeks - no pressure then Graeme. Actually the roll roof would only be 4.5mx2.5m - I'd like the warm room lid to be fixed - but even so!
And at that size it looks massive up against the existing one. ( I've spent part of the morning placing a mock outline with old timber ).

[Altocumulus]

Marvellous how the mind starts looking at things when one sees the outline actually in place!
I did think of an "E" shape, remove the inner leg. That would allow the outer legs to act
as the ror support, out to the, for me, useless west - one leg becomes the warm room, the other for storage.

Now I'm thinking more of a "T" shape, and on two levels to account for the mound - 4.2mx2.4m for the scopes.
The warm room then on normal level ground with an inner step or two -
size determined by the lengths of the off-cuts of shiplap which come in 5.4m lengths.

Mind I haven't explained to any supplier quite how they'd get to us along a rather awkward access

ror seems my main thought at the moment, pent roof.

[SkyHiker]

Do you have a picture of what your site looks like? The first thought of having to build on a mound is to flatten it.

The bigger the observatory the more work. If you operate the scope remotely you don't need a dark room, do you? The 6x8' that I have is plenty big for a good size scope, with room to spare. I have a Pi and Pegasus power mounted on the scope. I log in remotely to the Pi, that's all I need to avoid having to spend time by the scope. Aside from operating the roof I only need to be there for polar alignment (once in a very long time) and taking darks, flats and biases. I spend the rest of the time sitting behind my desk inside, controlling the session.

Size wise, bigger is not always better because it is easier for the wind to affect your tracking. From that viewpoint the best option is a dome. However, then you have to automate it, which makes it harder.

What I find important is to have a concrete floor that I can sweep easily. Leaves, spiders and dust will inevitably have to be cleaned out. That concrete floor is also a solid base to avoid having to build a pier. My concrete floor is too big for the observatory, and it has a dip, so I need to seal the surroundings to keep rainwater from flowing in, keep that in mind.

If a concrete floor is out of reach, I once built a patio that has a foundation of plain dirt. I laid sand on top of it, the concrete pavers went over it, and never had a problem. If you can flatten the rubble, that's an easy way to get a suitable floor.

I concur with Graeme that you don't need Polaris to polar align. My shed has a wall on the North side, and Ekos lets my polar align just fine with a three-point alignment algorithm using a view of the South-Eastern sky.

[Altocumulus]

I'll pop a few pictures in. The mound, though is compacted rubble, stone and other materials. It's firmed down over the years and would probably take a digger to really get to level the area. Access for such would be very problematic, unfortunately.

I'm planning on laying treated timbers on concrete blocks all round and underneath, waterproof sheeting - then building up from that. So the base becomes the start of the framework. Once the tripods are in, and on their own blocks, I can work in the floor.

It feels good in my head.....

[Altocumulus]

Looking north

[Altocumulus]

With the "how big is it" frame on it!

Trying to work with the existing shed in place is difficult, but the mound Is over emphasised at the moment by the frame, probably 2feet higher than it would be.

I need to decide over the weekend if I'm seeing enough of the low sun to capture anything decent - and then dismantle and strip everything back to bare earth.

[SkyHiker]

With the "how big is it" frame on it!

Thanks for the picture! It looks worthwhile getting a container from your trash company to dump everything in, getting a pickaxe and shovel out to level everything. It will make everything easier!

[Altocumulus]

Chuckle. It's taken years to get to that stage!

Do I need a warm room
Technically no, I already remote observe, either in the house or in a small bunker off image. But it'd be good to stay ready for the various changes one sometimes needs. Mind a larger scope room makes some of the necessity less so.

[SkyHiker]

Chuckle. It's taken years to get to that stage!

Do I need a warm room
Technically no, I already remote observe, either in the house or in a small bunker off image. But it'd be good to stay ready for the various changes one sometimes needs. Mind a larger scope room makes some of the necessity less so.

In my experience, 6x8' is large enough to have a scope and sit there with a laptop when necessary. I have 2 folding chairs that I fold up when I need to walk around. When I need to use a laptop, I sit on one and put my laptop up on a box on the other, to get a proper height. It works well because I can move to wherever I need, for instance to focus the guide scope or do polar alignment. A fixed desk would be less convenient and take up space while being useless most of the time.

[JayTee]

What you have laid out appears massive even accounting for the ROR frame. My observing room is just 10' (3m) X 10' (3m) and it holds two scopes. One is on a permanent pier mount, the other on a tripod. So Henk's dimensions for a single scope seem about right.

Also, because you are already doing remote observing and the fact that your house is so close, I question the need for a warm room. Unless you are going to use it as a fortress of solitude which is what I use my warm room for!

[Graeme1858]

Unless you are going to use it as a fortress of solitude which is what I use my warm room for!

Same as that!

[Altocumulus]

As that, partly!

[Altocumulus]

What you have laid out appears massive even accounting for the ROR frame. My observing room is just 10' (3m) X 10' (3m) and it holds two scopes. One is on a permanent pier mount, the other on a tripod. So Henk's dimensions for a single scope seem about right.

Also, because you are already doing remote observing and the fact that your house is so close, I question the need for a warm room. Unless you are going to use it as a fortress of solitude which is what I use my warm room for!

A fortress of solitude I like the idea of. There are other reasons on why I like the idea of being close - it stops me having to keep running in and out of the house, especially as I disturb the occupant working in the closest room every time I do...

I'm glad you've said 3mx3m works, that's a comfort to know - though obviously scope lengths will determine things a lot clearer! I worked out the long scope I have on the mount needed 1.5m to sensibly skew horizontally on the mount, but I do need to plumbline and check everything more carefully. For that I need a bit more space in which to work among the clutter.

All good conversations to have at this design stage, so there's fewer when it's too late. I like the idea of a smaller footprint (keeps the cost down!) I won't be getting any larger scope envy 2-3 years down the line - I've reached my limit. ( Honest ).

Many thanks all - much appreciated.

[Altocumulus]

p.s. Earlier I mentioned one of the manufacturers of observatories. They were designing a 5.4m x 3.0m room for me, using their experience...... for imaging on two piers....

[Altocumulus]

A plumb line measure of each of my two longest 'scopes gives a circle of 85/66 cm ( dew/cam ) - so 85cm as radius maximum; the other 58/52 cm, so 58cm maximum.

Measured by horizontal positions of the telescopes which should represent the maximum circle each would describe. In reality it'll be less unless I need
a horizontal to align on distant structures.

Two circles, then of 1.7 m and 1.2 m ( say ) - though both, in most instances will be looking at the same sky segment at the same time - but moving around space needed for me, maintenance when roof closed ( small ). So am I looking at 3.5x2.5? Scopes lined up either N/S or E/W.

For roof height - 176cm ( from ground ) gives me "Home" park on the NEQ6-R Pro - that's higher than I am tall, but something approaching 2.2m apex should give enough headspace ( roof bracing to consider ).

[Altocumulus]

A quick plan - why aren't CAD programs easier to understand Done sketchily in AF2. Fresh eyes useful...

Triangle area, if it fits, 'warm' room - to be considered as and when most other parts are completed...

No allowance for any doors! Maximum will be stretchable, a bit.....

Red, longest scope; blue the next longest. Others sweep within these two.

[Altocumulus]

And we're off.
Power and ethernet cables to secure then the box to dismantle. Apart from nailed shiplap everything else's screw.

[JayTee]

Hi Geoff,

Have you ever heard of SketchUp? It has a free version and that is what I used to do the mock-ups of my Obsy. Here's what I was able to produce. Here's the website: https://app.sketchup.com/app?hl=en

The actual build. You can just see the skinny black tube of the C6R on the left of the C11, about halfway toward the west wall.