An Observing Project - The Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration Classes

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An Observing Project - The Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration Classes

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Post by kt4hx »


We are all familiar with globular clusters. Those found in our host galaxy, the Milky Way, can range from very bright well known objects like NGC 5139 (Omega Centauri), NGC 104 (47 Tucanae) or Messier 13 (Hercules Cluster) to the very faint and obscure, such as Palomar 4, Arp-Madore 1 or Laevens 1. If the article on Wikipedia about globulars is wholly accurate, then there are 254 that are known or are possible candidates within our galaxy. However, the true number is a bit more ambiguous than that list due to the obscuration within our galaxy. Many sources report approximately 154 known globs in our galaxy, but as our capabilities of detection and study of deep sky objects is constantly improving, the true number is always in flux as we learn more.

For our purposes as amateur astronomers, the number of observable globular clusters is limited to be certain. Because the preponderance of these object form a halo around our galaxy’s central bulge, they tend to be more numerous during the late spring into the autumn months here in the northern hemisphere. Many observers, particularly those with less experience, tend to believe that one glob looks pretty much like another. However, as one starts to study them visually with a more experienced eye, subtle, and sometimes not so subtle differences begin to emerge.

Most observers have their favorites of course, typically depending upon their location and which celestial hemisphere offers them the best access. Regardless of where the observer lives, the majority seem to truly enjoy observing a bright, beautiful globular cluster. They can be entrancing, with some revealing little to no resolution of its member stars, while others are more easily resolved into countless stellar points formed into a tight rounded form.

The purpose of this article is to introduce you to a classification methodology for these objects that many observers know little about, or even perhaps haven’t even heard of previously. In the Harvard University Bulletin No. 849, on pages 11-14, astronomers Harlow Shapley and Helen Sawyer published their results on August 1, 1927. They studied images from Harvard’s Bruce 24-inch doublet telescope of the 95 globular clusters that were known at the time in the Milky Way. They then individually classified them into twelve categories based on their stellar density into the core of each cluster. This study became known as the Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration system. While it is not particularly important in terms of the science of astronomy today, it was still an important study at its time as astronomers were trying to come to grips with exactly what they were observing and imaging in the visible universe at that time.

The twelve categories within this study are given below. Note that they utilized Roman numerals for their numbering system, though in practice I typically utilize English numerals when I refer to the classification of a globular in my observing notes.

Class Description
I High concentration toward the center
II Dense central condensation
III Strong inner core of stars
IV Intermediate rich concentrations
V Intermediate concentrations
VI Intermediate
VII Intermediate
VIII Rather loosely concentrated towards the center
IX Loose towards the center
X Loose
XI Very loose towards the center
XII Almost no concentration towards the center

Now that we have a basic understanding of how this classification system works, it does bring up the question for the amateur observer – can I truly tell the difference visually in the structure of the clusters I observe? Well, to be honest it can be very difficult when dealing with adjacent concentration levels within the scale. As expected if you view a Class I globular then a Class XII cluster you can definitely see the differences. Even moving a few points on the scale one can begin to see some subtle differences with careful study.

Honestly, this article is all about getting you out there to chase and observe globular clusters – or image them if that is your area of expertise. So, I would not get overly wrapped up in trying to discern a Class I from a Class II – unless you truly wish to get that detailed. The primary goal here is to observe (or image) the Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration scale. This is a fun project, that gets you to thinking about the subtle differences between globs, and get away from what some feel is a “see one, you’ve seen them all” type of mindset. I could of course attach an example image of each of the various classes. However, I do not have the original images that Shapley and Sawyer utilized to construct their system. Plus as I've stated, it can be difficult to discern obvious differences as you move through the scale step by step. Suffice it say, we will not get to that level of detail here. Rather this is simply a project to get you out under a dark sky with a focus on globular clusters, and the added bonus of learning about this classification attempt made nearly 100 years ago.

So what are good examples of each classification level within the system? Well I can tell you, if you have observed all of the Messier globulars, you’ve already covered the first eleven of the twelve levels right there. But that said I will give you a list of some examples of each class so that you can begin in earnest to work your way through the Shapley-Sawyer scale. Have fun with it, because that is the exact reason I am laying this out for you here. To get out there, do something a little bit different and have a great time doing it! Please feel free to post your results in the Reports forum for visual observations, in the AP section for you imagers out there and if you are into sketching that is good as well, and can be posted in the Sketching forum. So good luck to one and all, let us know how you did! If you wish to read the original article published in the Harvard Bulletin I have attached it here:
1927BHarO.849...pdf
(191.81 KiB) Downloaded 55 times

Class Examples
I M75, NGC 2808, NGC 7006
II M2, M80, NGC 1261, NGC 1851, NGC 6139, NGC 6356
III M54, NGC 104, NGC 362, NGC 6316, NGC 6388, NGC 6441, NGC 6541
IV M15, M28, M62, M92, NGC 1866, NGC 5634, NGC 6293, NGC 6453, NGC 6517
V M5, M13, M30, M53, M69, M70, M79, NGC 1831, NGC 5286, NGC 6440
VI M3, NGC 1806, NGC 1978, NGC 2298, NGC 6304, NGC 6624, NGC 6638, NGC 6652, NGC 6752
VII M10, M22, NGC 1783, NGC 2419, NGC 5986, NGC 6229, NGC 6287, NGC 6723
VIII M9, M14, M19, NGC 1846, NGC 4833, NGC 5139, NGC 5927, NGC 6569, NGC 6584, NGC 6934
IX M4, M12, M72, NGC 4147, NGC 5946, NGC 6284, NGC 6397, NGC 6426, NGC 6712, NGC 6760
X M56, M68, M107, NGC 288, NGC 3201, NGC 6101, NGC 6235, NGC 6362, NGC 6539
X-XI M71**
XI M55, IC 4499, NGC 5897, NGC 6144, NGC 6352, NGC 6366, NGC 6535, NGC 6553
XII NGC 4372, NGC 5466, NGC 6496, NGC 7492

**Note: This special category was added decades after the Shapley-Sawyer scale was devised. At the time they worked on this system, M71 was considered a very rich open cluster. This wasn’t changed until the 1970’s when it was determined to be a loose globular. It was given this cross-over designation within the scale after that point. So presumably one could include it in either X or XI at their choosing.

Correction: My good friend Ed (member 10538) advised me of some errors in my original article. Specifically that the objects M12, M55 and M107 were duplicated with their NGC designations. As an FYI, when the original article was published in 1927 the designation of Messier 107 was unknown. It was not until 1947 when Helen (Saywer) Hogg added the objects M105 to M107 to Messier's catalogue after researching his papers. So I removed the specific NGC identifiers from the examples listed above. I appreciate Ed letting me know of my duplication on these objects, as I never wish to confuse or misguide anyone here.

Correction: Further, Ed mentioned the objects NGCs 1783, 1831, 1846 and 1978 as being open clusters. My article was based on the 1927 original paper by Shapley-Sawyer in which they recognize those four objects as globular clusters. In researching these after Ed contacted me, I found that sources for data on these objects are a little bit of a mixed bag. But for the most part, sources (both amateur and professional) indicate that NGCs 1783, 1831 and 1978 are considered globular clusters. NGC 1846 is the only one that seems to be more up for debate. In looking at images of all four, which are located in the LMC, all but NGC 1846 most definitely have the appearance of a globular cluster. To me NGC 1846 gives the impression of either a looser globular or a very rich open cluster. That reminds me of the debate over Messier 71, which was not resolved until about 50 years after the original paper was published. However, with all that said, I will leave those four alone in the examples list above, as my intention here was to honor the work of Shapley-Harlow in 1927. They were working at a time when our understanding of the universe around us was poised to expand rapidly.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
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"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: An Observing Project - The Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration Classes

#2

Post by Bigzmey »


Nice article Alan! Brighter globulars are among the best looking targets in the sky. They present themself well in wide range of instruments from small binoculars to large light buckets. Definitely worth pursuing, and summer is best time of the year to do it.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
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Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2437, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 257
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Re: An Observing Project - The Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration Classes

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Post by 10538 »


Hi Alan! I think globular clusters are probably my favorite DSOs. I’m looking forward to checking these out. The last NGC in class II wasn’t listed. Is supposed to be missing? Thanks for the nice list of globs!
Ed :Astronomer1:
Scopes: Orion 14 inch f/4.6 Dobsonian w/MoonLite focuser. Meade LX200 Classic 10”w/AudioStar and MoonLite focuser, Criterion RV6, Orion ST80A w/2” GSO micro focuser.
Eyepieces: ES 5.5mm 100*, 6.7mm 82*, 11mm 82*, 14mm 100*, 18mm 82*, 20mm 100*, Meade 9mm XWA 100*, 24mm UWA 82*, 56mm 50*, TV Delos 6,8 & 10mm, Panoptic 24, 27 & 35mm, 17mm Nagler, Powermate 2X, Baader 6mm Ortho, Paracorr II.
MISC: William Optics Binoviewer, Revolution 2 Imager, Orion Skyview Pro Mount, Skymaster 15x70, 20x70, 25x100 Binos, HoTech Collimator, Kendrick Dew System,Catsperch Chair.
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Re: An Observing Project - The Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration Classes

#4

Post by kt4hx »


10538 wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:39 am Hi Alan! I think globular clusters are probably my favorite DSOs. I’m looking forward to checking these out. The last NGC in class II wasn’t listed. Is supposed to be missing? Thanks for the nice list of globs!

Good luck Ed, and I hope you enjoy this little observing project. And thank you for pointing out my error. When I was compiling the globs for each class, sometimes I would go ahead and put "NGC" in anticipation of the next one as I went through the original breakdown in the 1927 article I attached. In this case, there were not any more globs for Class II, but I forgot to remove the NGC I had entered in anticipation. I have done so now, and appreciate the sanity check my friend! :icon-smile:
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: An Observing Project - The Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration Classes

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Post by 10538 »


:D
kt4hx wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:42 pm
10538 wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:39 am Hi Alan! I think globular clusters are probably my favorite DSOs. I’m looking forward to checking these out. The last NGC in class II wasn’t listed. Is supposed to be missing? Thanks for the nice list of globs!

Good luck Ed, and I hope you enjoy this little observing project. And thank you for pointing out my error. When I was compiling the globs for each class, sometimes I would go ahead and put "NGC" in anticipation of the next one as I went through the original breakdown in the 1927 article I attached. In this case, there were not any more globs for Class II, but I forgot to remove the NGC I had entered in anticipation. I have done so now, and appreciate the sanity check my friend! :icon-smile:
Hi Alan! Hey I do that all the time! Usually I get distracted and forget where I left off! :shifty:
I’m not sure how many observers on here belong to the Astronomical League but they have a Globular Observing program that upon completion (50 objects) offers a nice pin and certificate. If they complete your list they will be well on the way to completing the program. They accept images and sketches as well as written visual documentation.
Thanks my friend for all your hard work! :D
Ed :Astronomer1:
Scopes: Orion 14 inch f/4.6 Dobsonian w/MoonLite focuser. Meade LX200 Classic 10”w/AudioStar and MoonLite focuser, Criterion RV6, Orion ST80A w/2” GSO micro focuser.
Eyepieces: ES 5.5mm 100*, 6.7mm 82*, 11mm 82*, 14mm 100*, 18mm 82*, 20mm 100*, Meade 9mm XWA 100*, 24mm UWA 82*, 56mm 50*, TV Delos 6,8 & 10mm, Panoptic 24, 27 & 35mm, 17mm Nagler, Powermate 2X, Baader 6mm Ortho, Paracorr II.
MISC: William Optics Binoviewer, Revolution 2 Imager, Orion Skyview Pro Mount, Skymaster 15x70, 20x70, 25x100 Binos, HoTech Collimator, Kendrick Dew System,Catsperch Chair.
Messier 110 Complete/ Messier 110 Sketches Complete / Herschel 400 Complete / H-2 and H-3 Complete
Bortle 3 Skies in Down Eastern NC
“Starlight, I hear you calling out to me so far away” Jeff Lynne ELO.
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Re: An Observing Project - The Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration Classes

#6

Post by kt4hx »


10538 wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:58 pm :D
kt4hx wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:42 pm
10538 wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:39 am Hi Alan! I think globular clusters are probably my favorite DSOs. I’m looking forward to checking these out. The last NGC in class II wasn’t listed. Is supposed to be missing? Thanks for the nice list of globs!

Good luck Ed, and I hope you enjoy this little observing project. And thank you for pointing out my error. When I was compiling the globs for each class, sometimes I would go ahead and put "NGC" in anticipation of the next one as I went through the original breakdown in the 1927 article I attached. In this case, there were not any more globs for Class II, but I forgot to remove the NGC I had entered in anticipation. I have done so now, and appreciate the sanity check my friend! :icon-smile:
Hi Alan! Hey I do that all the time! Usually I get distracted and forget where I left off! :shifty:
I’m not sure how many observers on here belong to the Astronomical League but they have a Globular Observing program that upon completion (50 objects) offers a nice pin and certificate. If they complete your list they will be well on the way to completing the program. They accept images and sketches as well as written visual documentation.
Thanks my friend for all your hard work! :D

Thank you Ed. Yeah, that was just an oversight. I am always thankful for such little "oopsey" things being pointed out. I am aware of the AL globular award. I even have the booklet they used to put out for that. I have never submitted anything to them for any awards. Even though I am detailed about my observing and notes, I tend to be lazy when it comes to applying for awards. I guess its just not my thing for whatever reason. :lol:

The one thing about this little observing project is that it covers both north and south, and only the 95 globs that were known to Shapley and Sawyer at that time. However, just the Messier globs alone will put the observer at 29 out of 50 for their award, which is a good jump start. I don't think it is an overly difficult award for most folks since globs are typically easier to work with under LP than some other objects.

While galaxies are my favorite objects to pursue, as evidenced by the vast majority of my reporting, globulars are a very close second for me! :icon-smile:
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: An Observing Project - The Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration Classes

#7

Post by 10538 »


kt4hx wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:21 pm
10538 wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:58 pm :D
kt4hx wrote: Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:42 pm


Good luck Ed, and I hope you enjoy this little observing project. And thank you for pointing out my error. When I was compiling the globs for each class, sometimes I would go ahead and put "NGC" in anticipation of the next one as I went through the original breakdown in the 1927 article I attached. In this case, there were not any more globs for Class II, but I forgot to remove the NGC I had entered in anticipation. I have done so now, and appreciate the sanity check my friend! :icon-smile:
Hi Alan! Hey I do that all the time! Usually I get distracted and forget where I left off! :shifty:
I’m not sure how many observers on here belong to the Astronomical League but they have a Globular Observing program that upon completion (50 objects) offers a nice pin and certificate. If they complete your list they will be well on the way to completing the program. They accept images and sketches as well as written visual documentation.
Thanks my friend for all your hard work! :D

Thank you Ed. Yeah, that was just an oversight. I am always thankful for such little "oopsey" things being pointed out. I am aware of the AL globular award. I even have the booklet they used to put out for that. I have never submitted anything to them for any awards. Even though I am detailed about my observing and notes, I tend to be lazy when it comes to applying for awards. I guess its just not my thing for whatever reason. :lol:

The one thing about this little observing project is that it covers both north and south, and only the 95 globs that were known to Shapley and Sawyer at that time. However, just the Messier globs alone will put the observer at 29 out of 50 for their award, which is a good jump start. I don't think it is an overly difficult award for most folks since globs are typically easier to work with under LP than some other objects.

While galaxies are my favorite objects to pursue, as evidenced by the vast majority of my reporting, globulars are a very close second for me! :icon-smile:
I guess I feel the same about awards. I’m a member of AL but I never applied for anything. Back in the day when we were all on AF I was pretty proud of receiving the Messier and Messier Sketch award certificates and I still am! I have them framed in my office!
Ed :Astronomer1:
Scopes: Orion 14 inch f/4.6 Dobsonian w/MoonLite focuser. Meade LX200 Classic 10”w/AudioStar and MoonLite focuser, Criterion RV6, Orion ST80A w/2” GSO micro focuser.
Eyepieces: ES 5.5mm 100*, 6.7mm 82*, 11mm 82*, 14mm 100*, 18mm 82*, 20mm 100*, Meade 9mm XWA 100*, 24mm UWA 82*, 56mm 50*, TV Delos 6,8 & 10mm, Panoptic 24, 27 & 35mm, 17mm Nagler, Powermate 2X, Baader 6mm Ortho, Paracorr II.
MISC: William Optics Binoviewer, Revolution 2 Imager, Orion Skyview Pro Mount, Skymaster 15x70, 20x70, 25x100 Binos, HoTech Collimator, Kendrick Dew System,Catsperch Chair.
Messier 110 Complete/ Messier 110 Sketches Complete / Herschel 400 Complete / H-2 and H-3 Complete
Bortle 3 Skies in Down Eastern NC
“Starlight, I hear you calling out to me so far away” Jeff Lynne ELO.
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Re: An Observing Project - The Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration Classes

#8

Post by kt4hx »


Yeah, those kind of awards were good enough for me. I have the Messier and Southern Awards from the old site, and got my Messier thing here. Beyond that I know what I do and accomplish, and I am quite fine with that knowledge. :icon-smile:
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: An Observing Project - The Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration Classes

#9

Post by OzEclipse »


Hi Alan, @kt4hx

Excellent project and challenge. I am working in the city and scopes out in the country where it's been cloudy on the weekends and clear all week while I'm working in Canberra so not much observing lately. Globulars can be ranked via a number of parameters, not just condensation.

Below is an extract of a file where I ranked globulars by condensation and other parameters a few years ago.
Globular Rankings.png
.

My current project is a version of the NGC catalogue where I create a measure of surface brightness so that the entire catalogue can be ordered from highest to lowest surface brightness. It's turning out to be a lot more work than I first thought.

Regards

Joe
Image
Amateur astronomer since 1978...................Web site : http://joe-cali.com/
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Re: An Observing Project - The Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration Classes

#10

Post by kt4hx »


OzEclipse wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:32 am Hi Alan, @kt4hx

Excellent project and challenge. I am working in the city and scopes out in the country where it's been cloudy on the weekends and clear all week while I'm working in Canberra so not much observing lately. Globulars can be ranked via a number of parameters, not just condensation.

Below is an extract of a file where I ranked globulars by condensation and other parameters a few years ago.

Globular Rankings.png.

My current project is a version of the NGC catalogue where I create a measure of surface brightness so that the entire catalogue can be ordered from highest to lowest surface brightness. It's turning out to be a lot more work than I first thought.

Regards

Joe

Hi Joe, appreciate your comments and feedback about what you are working on. I will take a look at your concentration rankings as well. I should think that trying to rank the entire NGC by SBr would be a lot of work. First off, visual magnitude ratings from which we calculate SBr are always subject to question. Also typically the angular dimensions are usually based on images rather than direct observation, which also skews things a little. But we've dealt with those factors all the time. I wish you good luck with completing your project and look forward to the results.
Alan

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Re: An Observing Project - The Shapley-Sawyer Globular Concentration Classes

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Post by OzEclipse »


kt4hx wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 3:33 pm Hi Joe, appreciate your comments and feedback about what you are working on. I will take a look at your concentration rankings as well. I should think that trying to rank the entire NGC by SBr would be a lot of work. First off, visual magnitude ratings from which we calculate SBr are always subject to question. Also typically the angular dimensions are usually based on images rather than direct observation, which also skews things a little. But we've dealt with those factors all the time. I wish you good luck with completing your project and look forward to the results.
Thanks Alan,

I'm working on a relative measure of SBr. All I can do is base it on the photographic dimensions and hope they are in most cases proportional to visual proportions. Of course there will be exceptions but this is better than nothing. I'm converting integrated visual magnitude (log) to a linear relative brightness factor then dividing by a generic area formula based on the assumption that the shape is roughly elliptical.

Eventually, I hope to re-order the catalogue by surface brightness. Then, if this works, an observer could find an object they know is on their personal limit(scope size, vision, light pollution). All objects with a higher surface brightness could be potential targets for that observer & scope at a particular location.

Cheers

Joe
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