How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

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Juno16 United States of America
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How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#1

Post by Juno16 »


Hi everyone,

On the Dark Sky site, my imaging location (backyard) is Bortle 5.
I never really believed that my sky was a Bortle 5 because it really looked like crap most of the time. I have a large elementary school a block to the east in addition to a LED streetlight (non-shielded) in my front yard (also east).

I installed an app on my phone “Dark Sky Meter” that worked okay, but sometimes gave wildly different results, however, the average was Bortle 7 (it read in SQM – sky quality meter).
I just looked up Bortle scale on Google and at the Wikipedia page it has a SQM/Bortle scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bortle_scale

So, today, I was reading a post on CN (Cloudy Nights forum) and ran across something very interesting that some of you probably might already know.

ASTAP software can easily calculate sky brightness (SQM) accurately by simply supplying it with some of your imaging data.

I already had ASTAP installed on my system since I use it for plate solving in N.I.N.A.

To accurately calculate sky brightness from an image that you collected using ASTAP:

Open the ASTAP software. Click File, Load FITS or Other Format.
Load a dark file (that matches the temperature/sensor temperature) of the image that you want to analyze).
Again, click File, Load FITS or Other Format.
Load a flat file (that matches the image that you want to analyze).
Again, click File, Load FITS or Other Format.
Load a light frame that you want to analyze.
Click the Solve button.
Click Tools, SQM report based on image.

Capture.PNG

NOTE: I have only used ASTAP with FITS files. I have no idea if it will work with other image formats.


Finally confirmation! Looks like when I image targets near the Celestial Equator, I start off at a high Bortle 7, almost 8. When my target reaches the meridian, Bortle 6.

I know that Sharpcap offers a similar tool, but I don't use it since NINA has the polar alignment plugin TPPA which uses ASTAP as my designated plate solver.

I hope that someone finds this as interesting as I did.
Last edited by Juno16 on Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#2

Post by JayTee »


Thanks Jim, that's a very interesting and a little-known feature of ASTAP. Thank you for sharing that info and the procedures.
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#3

Post by chris_g »


Thanks for that tip, I have an SQM-LE meter that I haven't set up yet. It will be interesting to see how well ASTAP and it compares...
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#4

Post by JSBach1801 »


Hmm, I download the ASTAP software, and it opened fine. However, when I went to solve, I received a warning that no star database was installed. I checked though, and there is a database inside the install directory. This is on Windows 10.

I'll have to investigate further.
Lyle In Utah

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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#5

Post by Juno16 »


Hi Lyle,

Well, I had already written a long response, but after looking up the ASTAP installation I found that the star database files that I was using was going to be phased out soon and there were new databases available.
I used the old H17 and H18 star database files yesterday and I would think that they would work fine (as they always have), but to try to mimic your issue, I deleted my ASTAP installation and reinstalled the application and new database files from:
https://www.hnsky.org/astap.htm

I also use Windows 10 and installed the Windows 64 bit Program and the V50 Photometry & colour star database installer. With the basic installer, ASTAP was installed in C:\Program Files\ASTAP. Also, when I ran the V50 installer, it also dropped all of the D50 files in the same ASTAP folder.

I checked it out by solving and calculating SQM on the same light frame as I did yesterday (well maybe not the same light frame, but close). I got a slightly different result (18.51 to 18.49), but it worked well.

Your ASTAP folder should look like (or similar) to this:

Capture3.PNG

Of course, if you downloaded a different star database, it will be different.

NOTE: I only tried using FITS files as that is the image format of my camera. I have not tried other formats.

Good luck and let me know!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#6

Post by JayTee »


chris_g wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:09 am I have an SQM-LE meter that I haven't set up yet. It will be interesting to see how well ASTAP and it compares...
I am doing the very same thing, except, my SQM-L is ready to go.
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#7

Post by JSBach1801 »


Juno16 wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:35 am Good luck and let me know!
Jim,

Ok, so I didn't have the database installed after all! You have set me straight though. So, I installed the V50 database.

Unfortunately, another issue has cropped up. I loaded a dark frame, then a flat, and then a light just as you said. I clicked on the solve button and received a "No Solution Found" message. I thought, maybe I should try a different database. So I uninstalled the V50 and installed the D20. Same result.

So then I thought maybe my Sony ARW files are no playing nice, so I converted them to FITS files, but that didn't work either. Not sure what the issue is. Would it fail to solve because it couldn't see enough stars? Seems hardly likely for my image. I have attached it as jpeg so you can see. I have also attached my ASTAP screen after the failure to plate solve.

DSC00930.jpeg
Capture.JPG

EDIT/UPDATE: Looking around online, it seems that I need to enter in my RA/DEC information so that the software has a starting point when it begins to solve. You can see in my image of ASTAP, those entry boxes are empty. Let me try that and see what happens.
Lyle In Utah

Telescopes: William Optics Zenithstar 73 III APO, ZWO 30mm f/4 Mini Guide Scope
Cameras: Sony a7IV Mirrorless, ZWO ASI120MM-MINI
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#8

Post by Juno16 »


JSBach1801 wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 8:45 pm
Juno16 wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:35 am Good luck and let me know!
Jim,

Ok, so I didn't have the database installed after all! You have set me straight though. So, I installed the V50 database.

Unfortunately, another issue has cropped up. I loaded a dark frame, then a flat, and then a light just as you said. I clicked on the solve button and received a "No Solution Found" message. I thought, maybe I should try a different database. So I uninstalled the V50 and installed the D20. Same result.

So then I thought maybe my Sony ARW files are no playing nice, so I converted them to FITS files, but that didn't work either. Not sure what the issue is. Would it fail to solve because it couldn't see enough stars? Seems hardly likely for my image. I have attached it as jpeg so you can see. I have also attached my ASTAP screen after the failure to plate solve.


DSC00930.jpegCapture.JPG


EDIT/UPDATE: Looking around online, it seems that I need to enter in my RA/DEC information so that the software has a starting point when it begins to solve. You can see in my image of ASTAP, those entry boxes are empty. Let me try that and see what happens.

Thanks Lyle,

I tried using the SQM tool with some old Nikon images (nef files) and couldn't get a SQM result. I would think that there must be a way around solving/SQM analysis issue with dslr "raw" images. Works great with FITS, but I know that you have a Sony and hopefully we can find a solution!

Thanks and let me know what you find out. Shame, it works so well with FITS files! Let me know.
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#9

Post by JSBach1801 »


Juno16 wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 9:52 pm Thanks Lyle,

I tried using the SQM tool with some old Nikon images (nef files) and couldn't get a SQM result. I would think that there must be a way around solving/SQM analysis issue with dslr "raw" images. Works great with FITS, but I know that you have a Sony and hopefully we can find a solution!

Thanks and let me know what you find out. Shame, it works so well with FITS files! Let me know.
Well, adding the RA/DEC information didn't help either. :doh:

Oh well. Maybe I'll try again at a later date. Thanks for posting regardless!
Lyle In Utah

Telescopes: William Optics Zenithstar 73 III APO, ZWO 30mm f/4 Mini Guide Scope
Cameras: Sony a7IV Mirrorless, ZWO ASI120MM-MINI
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#10

Post by chris_g »


JSBach1801 wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:16 pm Well, adding the RA/DEC information didn't help either.

Oh well. Maybe I'll try again at a later date. Thanks for posting regardless!
ASTAP can be really particular about just how round your stars are, especially at longer focal lengths.

The Ra/Dec coordinates you provided it, were they the coordinates of the actual image? If they were and it still didn't solve, it doesn't like your stars as long as you had pixel size and focal length set correctly.

Hope it helps

Clear Skies,
Chris
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#11

Post by JSBach1801 »


chris_g wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:07 am ASTAP can be really particular about just how round your stars are, especially at longer focal lengths.

The Ra/Dec coordinates you provided it, were they the coordinates of the actual image? If they were and it still didn't solve, it doesn't like your stars as long as you had pixel size and focal length set correctly.

Hope it helps

Clear Skies,
Chris
Chris,

The image I was testing out was of the Orion Nebula, so I used RA/DEC for the nebula that I found online. I'm sure it was a bit off from the actual center of my fame, but only marginally so.
Lyle In Utah

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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#12

Post by Juno16 »


chris_g wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:07 am
JSBach1801 wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:16 pm Well, adding the RA/DEC information didn't help either.

Oh well. Maybe I'll try again at a later date. Thanks for posting regardless!
ASTAP can be really particular about just how round your stars are, especially at longer focal lengths.

The Ra/Dec coordinates you provided it, were they the coordinates of the actual image? If they were and it still didn't solve, it doesn't like your stars as long as you had pixel size and focal length set correctly.

Hope it helps

Clear Skies,
Chris

Hi Lyle and Chris,
Yes, ASTAP needs fairly decent stars and correct values. Chris, where did you see a window in ASTAP to enter px size and focal length?

I have been working to try to get ASTAP to Solve and calculate SQM for some of my old Nikon nef file data. You have to jump through a bunch more hoops to get it to work (compared to a dedicated astro camera that produces FITS files with headers), but I started getting good SQM data finally.
I am working on getting it jotted down and I will try to post it soon. Big cooking day tomorrow getting ready for Easter. Hope to get back and share some information soon.
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#13

Post by JSBach1801 »


So, my ASIAIR actually saves the image files taken by my Sony (which would natively save files as ARW) to its internal storage as FITS with all the appropriate header information. So, maybe when I get some files captured that way, I will be able to get some SQM data. I will keep you posted on this.
Lyle In Utah

Telescopes: William Optics Zenithstar 73 III APO, ZWO 30mm f/4 Mini Guide Scope
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#14

Post by chris_g »


JSBach1801 wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:10 am The image I was testing out was of the Orion Nebula, so I used RA/DEC for the nebula that I found online.
Figured that's what you used but had to ask, it doesn't like your stars. Or something else is up. I'll see if there's a place to put in pixel and focal length. I know if the focal length is off by more than 100 or so it won't solve in APT. APT passes the focal length and pixel size via command line from parameters stored in configuration

If you want, put the image up on a cloud share and I'll see if I can get it to solve. All I would need is the focal length of the scope and model camera used. APT also has a total blind solve mode. Ok don't know how it's activated in ASTAP''s GUI though, only in APT. :)
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#15

Post by chris_g »


Juno16 wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:10 am Chris, where did you see a window in ASTAP to enter px size and focal length?
I don't know where in ASTAP. But I'm going to look. I know APT needs it or ASTAP won't solve, just times out. APT passes on the command line when it calls ASTAP.
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
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Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
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EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#16

Post by JSBach1801 »


chris_g wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:01 am If you want, put the image up on a cloud share and I'll see if I can get it to solve. All I would need is the focal length of the scope and model camera used. APT also has a total blind solve mode. Ok don't know how it's activated in ASTAP''s GUI though, only in APT. :)
Wow! That's super kind of you to be so willing to help.

See this link for the image file:


It's a 430mm scope and a Sony a7IV.
Lyle In Utah

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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#17

Post by Juno16 »


JSBach1801 wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:15 am
chris_g wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:01 am If you want, put the image up on a cloud share and I'll see if I can get it to solve. All I would need is the focal length of the scope and model camera used. APT also has a total blind solve mode. Ok don't know how it's activated in ASTAP''s GUI though, only in APT. :)
Wow! That's super kind of you to be so willing to help.

See this link for the image file:


It's a 430mm scope and a Sony a7IV.

@chris_g
@JSBach1801

Hi Lyle,

Got it to solve in ASTAP. Have to set the blind solver to 180 degrees (default = 20 degrees).

Capture5.PNG

Do you have a dark file that you can upload?

Man, I am sure learning a lot about ASTAP!
If I ever need the knowledge, I probably won’t remember!

Chris is right. ASTAP runs behind the scenes and your acquisition software (NINA, APT, etc) calls on it to perform solving functions based on your settings.
There are several plate solving tools out there. I used to use All Sky Plate Solver (ASPS), and it worked great. Just took about 30 seconds to solve.
ASTAP needs decent stars (don’t we all!), but is lightning fast (maybe 1-3 seconds for my images).

I need to quit playing around and start cooking the turkey!!!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
Dog and best bud: Jack
Sky: Bortle 6-7
My Astrobin: https://www.astrobin.com/users/Juno16/
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#18

Post by bobharmony »


Jim

Thanks for the information on the sky measurement tool for ASTAP. Like you, I have it installed for plate-solving, and I have also used it in the past for stacking. I'll have to give it a go and see what it comes up with. ASTAP has worked with .fits files for me, also .nef and .cr2 RAW files from Nikon and Canon

Lyle - in case it hasn't been mentioned yet, ASTAPs plate solving works best when you tell it the FOV size of the image. You can find where to input that info by clicking on the "Stack" tab, then the "Alignment" tab that appears.

Bob
Hardware: Celestron C6-N w/ Advanced GTmount, Baader MK iii CC, Orion ST-80, Canon 60D (unmodded), Nikon D5300 (modded), Orion SSAG
Software: BYE, APT, PHD2, DSS, PhotoShop CC 2020, StarTools, Cartes du Ciel, AstroTortilla

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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#19

Post by Juno16 »


bobharmony wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:04 pm Jim

Thanks for the information on the sky measurement tool for ASTAP. Like you, I have it installed for plate-solving, and I have also used it in the past for stacking. I'll have to give it a go and see what it comes up with. ASTAP has worked with .fits files for me, also .nef and .cr2 RAW files from Nikon and Canon

Lyle - in case it hasn't been mentioned yet, ASTAPs plate solving works best when you tell it the FOV size of the image. You can find where to input that info by clicking on the "Stack" tab, then the "Alignment" tab that appears.

Bob

Hey there Bob,

ASTAP failed to solve Lyle's image with the default 20 degree spiral search radius. When I set it to blind solve (180 degrees), it had no problem. Lyle's camera is a Sony with the raw file extension *.ARW. ASTAP had no issue with that extension. It just converts it to a FITS file.

Hopefully, Lyle has a dark from the same dataset that I can use to find the pedestal value (mean ADU) so that I can try to have it calculate SQM. I also need his location to make it work (hopefully). I am thinking that it should be a nice quality sky in Utah!

BTW, I did have some older data shot with the Nikon D5300. Looks like my sky has deterioted the past few years!

The recent SQM values for my backyard are really interesting and confirming.

Thanks Bob!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
Dog and best bud: Jack
Sky: Bortle 6-7
My Astrobin: https://www.astrobin.com/users/Juno16/
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Re: How to Measure Sky Brightness From Your Images Using ASTAP

#20

Post by chris_g »


JSBach1801 wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:15 am Wow! That's super kind of you to be so willing to help.

See this link for the image file:
Got it, I'll play with it this weekend...
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
Image OTA: EvoStar ED80, WO Z73, C8-A XLT
Mount: EQ6-R Pro Pier, AZ-EQ5 Pro Pier
Guide OTA: Orion 60mm, WO 32mm, ZWO OAG, SV501P
Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
EAA Cam: SVBony SV705C
EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
Session Control: Mini PC/Win11 Pro, APT 4.1, PHD2 2.6.10
Processing: PixInsight, DSS 4.2.6, Adobe PS CC, Astronomy Tools Action Set, Star Spikes Pro
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