Targets for Beginners?

[GCoyote]

The article seems pretty reasonable. What do some you more experienced observers think?

https://astronomy.com/magazine/news/202 ... ry-nebulae

[SkyHiker]

He mentions 20" to 21" reflectors; those are not really beginner telescopes. Suggestions about seeing color with anything less than 16" are wishful thinking IMHO, except for the brightest targets such as M42. Like beginners, I am not an experienced observer, but I look through other people's 18" telescopes once or twice a year and see no color even in those. With practice it should get better, I read, patience and practice should help. If I had the patience I would know.

[Bigzmey]

These are indeed show pieces as far as planetaries go, and will stand to light pollution. I would definitely recommend them to beginners and more advanced observers alike. But in terms of color he is really pushing it. I believe I have observed all of them with 8" SCT and the only colors I have seeing were in the Ring, they were subdued, pale red, yellow, green and blue but it was a beautiful sight. I have observed the Ring dozens of times but I saw colors like that only on one night.

[GCoyote]

Thanks guys!

[Baurice]

I would definitely not recommend them for beginners, unless they have big budgets and can buy mounts that can find objects automatically. Finding mag 10 faint fuzzies is a tough task for an experienced astronomer and beyond the limits of my equipment. I've "bagged" both the Ring Nebula and Dumbbell but others just look like faint smudges.

I would recommend starting with the brighter Messier objects, such as the Pleaides and Beehive. Even the Andromeda Galaxy is rather underwhelming and best left until you have mastered the open clusters and double stars first.

The Moon and Jupiter are good places to start with solar system objects. Venus can be somewhat challenging and you won't see anything more than its phase. Saturn is not easy and nothing like the photos that they put on the boxes of telescopes for sale.

Yes, astronomy is fascinating but starting off with more difficult objects is not recommended.

[MrShorty]

M57 -- Ring Nebula is one of my favorites for visual observing. In my 6 and 12 inch, I rarely catch color, but I usually most enjoy how M57 provides a measure of the quality of seeing. On most nights, I can pick out the ring/halo. On bad nights, it is a faint blob with no structure.

For color, I agree with his recommendation of NGC 7662 the Blue Snowball. When conditions are good, it does tend to show up in my 6 and 12 inch Dobs as a blue fuzzy dot. The first time I observed it, someone commented that it makes a better Uranus or Neptune than Uranus and Neptune.

Similar, though it isn't mentioned in the article and I forget the designation, but there is another very blue planetary in Ophiuchus that I have found pleasant to view. I think it was the Blue Racquetball nebula NGC 6572.

[OzEclipse]

He mentions 20" to 21" reflectors; those are not really beginner telescopes. Suggestions about seeing color with anything less than 16" are wishful thinking IMHO, except for the brightest targets such as M42. Like beginners, I am not an experienced observer, but I look through other people's 18" telescopes once or twice a year and see no color even in those. With practice it should get better, I read, patience and practice should help. If I had the patience I would know.

I agree with Henk's conclusion.

On a couple of nights when transparency was greatest, I have seen the faintest hint of rust red colouration in M42's and NGC 2070's brightest parts in my 18" dob.
Seeing blues and greens in planetary nebulae is much more common even in much smaller scopes.

I had the opportunity to view through a 28" f3.6 dob last July at Queensland Astrofest. No colour on the brightest parts of the brightest winter nebulae eg Lagoon, Triffid, Omega. The Magellanic Clouds were sub polar during early evening and lost in the glow from Brisbane. We typically didn't observe very late due to fog that began forming around 1am.
Joe

[SkyHiker]

I had the opportunity to view through a 28" f3.6 dob last July at Queensland Astrofest. No colour on the brightest parts of the brightest winter nebulae eg Lagoon, Triffid, Omega. The Magellanic Clouds were sub polar during early evening and lost in the glow from Brisbane. We typically didn't observe very late due to fog that began forming around 1am.

I looked through Dennis Young's 28" "one-armed bandit", a Dob that he had built in such a way that he could take it to star parties in a small sedan. He brought it to the RTMC every time, and each time I took the opportunity to look through it. Through that telescope I saw M51 in color. Mostly blue/greenish hues, but definitely color. Comparing it with other smaller 20"-ish Dobs that were also there, my conclusion was that for me the visual observation game really begins at around 25". Magnification also plays a role in how the human eye perceives color; for the one-armed bandit we had to climb a ladder, so I suspect it has a 2.5 to 3 m focal length. For a 28" mirror you need a 17 mm eyepiece or less to not eclipse the 5 mm eye pupil at a magnification of about 140 or more. Looking through that telescope was a memorable experience.

[Bigzmey]

Another thing to consider is color sensitivity of the observer and the experience detecting slight color variations. The colors are washed out at best and look nothing like on photos.

[Baurice]

Another thing to consider is color sensitivity of the observer and the experience detecting slight color variations. The colors are washed out at best and look nothing like on photos.

Most astronomical photos are processed to enhance detail. Deep sky objects are often photographed using colour filters that detect light from specific wavelengths corresponding to discrete elements. Even if one could travel in a spaceship to view an object close-in, you would not be able to see it to the same level of detail as photographs.

[modelsbynight]

I've used a 4.5" Newtonian to view Andromeda Galaxy and the Ring Nebula , I never saw any color . Jupiter and Saturn gray scale images only. I don't recall color in anything I saw.
Now however years later I am taking pictures of Orion Nebula and getting color, mind you it is stacked images and enhanced in Post Processing and that was with just a 70 or 85 mm camera lens.

[JayTee]

I agree with Henk's conclusion I have never seen any color with apertures of ≤ 6", pale blue (and pale blue only) at best with apertures between 8" and 16". Reds become very faint at 18".

[Mike Q]

Mag 10 can some tough stuff for a beginner. When people get started in this quick and easy wins are the key. So the moon and planets first then go deeper. The Ring, the Hercules Cluster, Andromeda and of course the Orion Nebula should always be on the top of the list

[helicon]

I am a fairly experienced observer (10-15 years growing up) and once again from 2012-present. The first stint was primarily using a 4.25" f/10 reflector and an 8" f/6 Dob. Since 2012 I have owned both 10" and 18" Dobs for the majority of that time and I can remark that I have never noticed any color - various shades of greys and silvers in nebulae and galaxies but definitely monochrome.

What a beginner might want to do instead of buying a big Dob and hoping to notice a tinge of color is join the EAA bandwagon and either buy a Unistellar or other make (3,000 or so) or even better and more economically, acquire the newer AP cameras that can be turned into EAA devices with some jury rigging, software, and computing power (Electronically Assisted Astronomy).

I at first was skeptical of this movement but it is catching on amongst the membership of my old club in California and my new club in Washington. Why stare at faint fuzzies when you can get an AP-quality view of M42, M51 and others even with modest apertures? The image gradually forms and becomes enhanced, colors appear - moreover light pollution becomes a minor irritant when searching for an object but disappears when it is time for the object to be captured and developed, meaning the backyard astronomer can see things rivaling the "pros."

Definition of EAA from ChatGPT:

"Electronically Assisted Astronomy (EAA) is a form of observational astronomy with a telescope that uses a camera instead of an eyepiece. The camera captures a sequence of short exposures, then software stacks and processes the images to be displayed in near-realtime on a connected screen, like a laptop. EAA involves the use of electronic aids for the enhancement of astronomical viewing while at the telescope in nearly real time"...

The point is if I was starting now this might be the direction I would take...

[AstroBee]

Another thing to consider is color sensitivity of the observer and the experience detecting slight color variations.

This is very true. I've had a couple of police officers tell me I couldn't see the difference between yellow and red!

[Bigzmey]

What a beginner might want to do instead of buying a big Dob and hoping to notice a tinge of color is join the EAA bandwagon and either buy a Unistellar or other make (3,000 or so) or even better and more economically, acquire the newer AP cameras that can be turned into EAA devices with some jury rigging, software, and computing power (Electronically Assisted Astronomy).

One don't even need to break the wallet. There are new entry level all-in-one EAA systems under $500.

https://agenaastro.com/zwo-seestar-s50- ... scope.html

https://dwarflab.com/products/dwarf-2-smart-telescope

[pakarinen]

I can't even see mag 10 objects at home due to light pollution, much less extended objects. Ok, planetaries are more starlike than galaxies, but still...

Even though I just got an ST102, I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Seestar. I still have until the end of the month to get the intro price.

[helicon]

I can't even see mag 10 objects at home due to light pollution, much less extended objects. Ok, planetaries are more starlike than galaxies, but still...

Even though I just got an ST102, I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Seestar. I still have until the end of the month to get the intro price.

Just checked that out. Pretty darn cool at only a 50mm objective and f/5. I'm sure larger versions will become available. I see these devices eventually cutting into the traditional telescope sales - fracs, Dobs, SCT's, etc. Who doesn't have a smart phone?

[Bigzmey]

I can't even see mag 10 objects at home due to light pollution, much less extended objects. Ok, planetaries are more starlike than galaxies, but still...

Even though I just got an ST102, I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Seestar. I still have until the end of the month to get the intro price.

Just checked that out. Pretty darn cool at only a 50mm objective and f/5. I'm sure larger versions will become available. I see these devices eventually cutting into the traditional telescope sales - fracs, Dobs, SCT's, etc. Who doesn't have a smart phone?

We get question quite often from beginners: I want a scope to do visual and AP under $500. Before the answer was there is no such thing, focus just on visual, but these new systems could be the answer.

[SkyHiker]

I can't even see mag 10 objects at home due to light pollution, much less extended objects. Ok, planetaries are more starlike than galaxies, but still...

Even though I just got an ST102, I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Seestar. I still have until the end of the month to get the intro price.

Just checked that out. Pretty darn cool at only a 50mm objective and f/5. I'm sure larger versions will become available. I see these devices eventually cutting into the traditional telescope sales - fracs, Dobs, SCT's, etc. Who doesn't have a smart phone?

We get question quite often from beginners: I want a scope to do visual and AP under $500. Before the answer was there is no such thing, focus just on visual, but these new systems could be the answer.

Except of course that 10" Coulter Odyssey that I bought for $100, then built a dual-axis autoguided barndoor drive to put the 65 lbs. Dob on and successfully did AP. I had to buy 2 Arduinos and 2 steppers that were $0.99 each. This assumes that my time was worth nothing. Of course, I did AP 4 times only with it just to prove my point.

Explore Scientific is the usual place where I look for the cheapest solution. They always have beginner PMC-8 tracking systems such as an 80 mm achro, I now see one that is $670. Far from perfect but why not, it would do visual and some AP with a DSLR and color.