SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

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hatflyer
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SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#1

Post by hatflyer »


I will have an 11 pound load. The mount says the load limit is 11 pounds in Az/Alt mode. If used for photography in EQ mode, is this load too much?

Thanks.
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#2

Post by Lady Fraktor »


For visual it would likely be fine but for AP you want to stay lower in capacity.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#3

Post by hatflyer »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 5:55 pm For visual it would likely be fine but for AP you want to stay lower in capacity.
Looks like the load would be 10 pounds with the 560mm lens. I'd like to get the Orion ED80T CF Triplet, which is a pound lighter, but haven't found a used 1. So may have to go with the Apertura.

Been trying to get in-touch with the TS-Optics thru the shop['s website but no replies.

Thanks.
Last edited by hatflyer on Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#4

Post by Lady Fraktor »


The difference in focal length does not give you more 'reach', shorter just provides faster imaging time and a slightly wider FOV.
Mounts are the most important part of your setup be it visual or AP.
Under mounting can work but may lead to frustration whereas over mounting is always preferable for a solid setup.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#5

Post by hatflyer »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:16 pm The difference in focal length does not give you more 'reach', shorter just provides faster imaging time and a slightly wider FOV.
Mounts are the most important part of your setup be it visual or AP.
Under mounting can work but may lead to frustration whereas over mounting is always preferable for a solid setup.
If the limit is is 11 lbs, what's a safe load?

The longer the focal length the more distant the objects u can image, right? So a loss of 130mm is notable, yes?
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#6

Post by Lady Fraktor »


For AP you want to be between 50-70% of the mount capacity.
Visual I like to stay no higher than 90% but most EQ-5 and up mounts you can go to 100%

The average focal ratio for AP is about f/7 from there you can use reducers or extenders depending on the target.
The shorter the focal ratio (not focal length) the wider the view available.
A 80mm f/5 and a 100mm f/5 is still a f/5 telescope even though the focal length is different.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#7

Post by Lady Fraktor »


hatflyer wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:20 pm The longer the focal length the more distant the objects u can image, right? So a loss of 130mm is notable, yes?
Normally long focal ratios are used for planetary, lunar and solar.
Short focal ratios are used for widerfield DSO imaging.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#8

Post by SkyHiker »


The standard rule of thumb is a factor 1/2 so a 5.5 lbs. limit for AP if a visual load of 11 lbs. is advertised.

A difference of 130 mm is definitely noticeable but it's not the only factor. For AP of DSOs you should look at the F ratio not the focal length. It determines how much integration time you need. For AP of planets you need large aperture (ideally say, 14") and exceptionally good seeing like once in a year or so. With less good seeing, 6" or 8" aperture will do fine. Smaller aperture works too but the resolution will be noticeably limited by the aperture not just the seeing.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#9

Post by JayTee »


If you get heavily into AP, then we will get into the war of f/ vs FL. Considering one over the other has both pros and cons. We'll worry about that once you start imaging.

I'm firmly in the FL camp because ignoring it has way more implications than ignoring f/. Also, FL determines which equipment to use way more than does f/ alone!

Additionally, the rule of thumb for AP load on any given mount is 50-60% of the max rated load.
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#10

Post by hatflyer »


JayTee wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 10:03 pm If you get heavily into AP, then we will get into the war of f/ vs FL. Considering one over the other has both pros and cons. We'll worry about that once you start imaging.

I'm firmly in the FL camp because ignoring it has way more implications than ignoring f/. Also, FL determines which equipment to use way more than does f/ alone!

Additionally, the rule of thumb for AP load on any given mount is 50-60% of the max rated load.
Not to start any big discussions here, but when u can stack photos, doesn't aperture become a bit less critical? You can work around it a bit? But focal length is hard to work around or manufacture. Well, unless u try 1 of those barlow (>) devices? Anyway, been doing AP for a few months and want more, but cost and weight unfortunately play a huge part. So looking for the most possibilities in capturing DSO.
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#11

Post by JayTee »


Any aperture can be made smaller (but we don't want that). What you can't do is make it larger. A 102mm objective can never be bigger than 102mm. But FL is completely variable with reducers and focal extenders (like a barlow). FL determines image size for any given sensor. So we consider the Aperture and the sensor size as fixed. Realistically ALL we can vary is the FL
hatflyer wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 10:10 pmSo looking for the most possibilities in capturing DSO.
Your greatest success with limited funds is a DSLR (with a 50 to 400mm lens) on an inexpensive EQ mount. Many great images on these forums were acquired using that gear.

Even something as inexpensive as this. Before you read this article skip down to the images first.
viewtopic.php?t=3129
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#12

Post by hatflyer »


JayTee wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:52 am Any aperture can be made smaller (but we don't want that). What you can't do is make it larger. A 102mm objective can never be bigger than 102mm. But FL is completely variable with reducers and focal extenders (like a barlow). FL determines image size for any given sensor. So we consider the Aperture and the sensor size as fixed. Realistically ALL we can vary is the FL
hatflyer wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 10:10 pmSo looking for the most possibilities in capturing DSO.
Your greatest success with limited funds is a DSLR (with a 50 to 400mm lens) on an inexpensive EQ mount. Many great images on these forums were acquired using that gear.

Even something as inexpensive as this. Before you read this article skip down to the images first.
viewtopic.php?t=3129
I have a DSLR, mount, wedge, and tripod. Next up a scope. Am trying to figure out which 1. Looks like the f/6 doublet 430mm.
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#13

Post by JayTee »


Put a Vixen rail on the bottom of your camera mount it to your wedge and start taking pictures. AP is soooo much more than just gathering data. Most of the very steep learning curve deals with what needs to be done with the data after you've acquired it. You don't need a telescope to start AP.

Check out the images in this post with nothing more than an EQ mount (a wedge on an Alt-Az mount counts), a DSLR, and a lens attached.

viewtopic.php?p=214441#p214441
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#14

Post by hatflyer »


SkyHiker wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:53 pm The standard rule of thumb is a factor 1/2 so a 5.5 lbs. limit for AP if a visual load of 11 lbs. is advertised.

A difference of 130 mm is definitely noticeable but it's not the only factor. For AP of DSOs you should look at the F ratio not the focal length. It determines how much integration time you need. For AP of planets you need large aperture (ideally say, 14") and exceptionally good seeing like once in a year or so. With less good seeing, 6" or 8" aperture will do fine. Smaller aperture works too but the resolution will be noticeably limited by the aperture not just the seeing.
I found a scope that is only 4.1 pounds (the Tecnosky APO 70/420 , f/6). Compared to my current set-up, with my camera 400mm, this would add only 1.5 pounds. And be the same focal length. So if it works with my camera lens, this 7.2 pound load may work as well?
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#15

Post by SkyHiker »


hatflyer wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:40 pm
SkyHiker wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:53 pm The standard rule of thumb is a factor 1/2 so a 5.5 lbs. limit for AP if a visual load of 11 lbs. is advertised.

A difference of 130 mm is definitely noticeable but it's not the only factor. For AP of DSOs you should look at the F ratio not the focal length. It determines how much integration time you need. For AP of planets you need large aperture (ideally say, 14") and exceptionally good seeing like once in a year or so. With less good seeing, 6" or 8" aperture will do fine. Smaller aperture works too but the resolution will be noticeably limited by the aperture not just the seeing.
I found a scope that is only 4.1 pounds (the Tecnosky APO 70/420 , f/6). Compared to my current set-up, with my camera 400mm, this would add only 1.5 pounds. And be the same focal length. So if it works with my camera lens, this 7.2 pound load may work as well?
The price is low, the weight is probably as low as it gets but still above the 5.5 lbs. rule of thumb. It may or may not work, all I can say is just that.

See if you can find out if a flattener is needed. For instance, if you look at the Sharpstar 61EDPH they warn that a reducer/flattener is needed for AP. Now, that scope is F/4.5 so maybe F/6.6 is forgiving enough to get by without. Maybe Jim (Juno16) can weigh in, he has one of those and takes fabulous images with it. Of course, he uses an autoguider.

If you want to take the guess work out, strap a 1.5 lbs. weight on to your camera and see if it can deliver pinpoint stars. One more thought, I don't know what DSLR you have but a mirrorless DSLR like a Fuji X-a1 or X-a2 body can be had on EBay for $130 or so. I have used an X-a1 myself, it works quite well, and those cameras are lighter than a regular DSLR.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#16

Post by hatflyer »


SkyHiker wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:45 pm
hatflyer wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:40 pm
SkyHiker wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:53 pm The standard rule of thumb is a factor 1/2 so a 5.5 lbs. limit for AP if a visual load of 11 lbs. is advertised.

A difference of 130 mm is definitely noticeable but it's not the only factor. For AP of DSOs you should look at the F ratio not the focal length. It determines how much integration time you need. For AP of planets you need large aperture (ideally say, 14") and exceptionally good seeing like once in a year or so. With less good seeing, 6" or 8" aperture will do fine. Smaller aperture works too but the resolution will be noticeably limited by the aperture not just the seeing.
I found a scope that is only 4.1 pounds (the Tecnosky APO 70/420 , f/6). Compared to my current set-up, with my camera 400mm, this would add only 1.5 pounds. And be the same focal length. So if it works with my camera lens, this 7.2 pound load may work as well?
The price is low, the weight is probably as low as it gets but still above the 5.5 lbs. rule of thumb. It may or may not work, all I can say is just that.

See if you can find out if a flattener is needed. For instance, if you look at the Sharpstar 61EDPH they warn that a reducer/flattener is needed for AP. Now, that scope is F/4.5 so maybe F/6.6 is forgiving enough to get by without. Maybe Jim (Juno16) can weigh in, he has one of those and takes fabulous images with it. Of course, he uses an autoguider.

If you want to take the guess work out, strap a 1.5 lbs. weight on to your camera and see if it can deliver pinpoint stars. One more thought, I don't know what DSLR you have but a mirrorless DSLR like a Fuji X-a1 or X-a2 body can be had on EBay for $130 or so. I have used an X-a1 myself, it works quite well, and those cameras are lighter than a regular DSLR.
I assume it needs a flattener.

My Nikon D5500 weighs less than 1 pound. Guide scope and guide cam <1 pound. About as light as can be. ;)
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#17

Post by hatflyer »


What is the lightest EQ mount that is rated for 15 pound loads?
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#18

Post by Lady Fraktor »


The Celestron CG-4 or Skywatcher EQ-3/2 (same mount and company just different name)
https://www.astronomics.com/celestron-o ... mount.html
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/equato ... eluxe.html
They are rated at 20 lb capacity.
Both are manual mounts but tracking motors are available as well as a goto kit.
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-wa ... is-dc-moto
The goto kit has to be ordered from UK/ EU as it is not available in USA.
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-wa ... eq3-2.html

The only big difference between the two is that the Skywatcher comes with a aluminium tripod whereas the Celestron has a steel tripod.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: SW AZ-FTi Load Limit

#19

Post by hatflyer »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:08 pm The Celestron CG-4 or Skywatcher EQ-3/2 (same mount and company just different name)
https://www.astronomics.com/celestron-o ... mount.html
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/equato ... eluxe.html
They are rated at 20 lb capacity.
Both are manual mounts but tracking motors are available as well as a goto kit.
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-wa ... is-dc-moto
The goto kit has to be ordered from UK/ EU as it is not available in USA.
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-wa ... eq3-2.html

The only big difference between the two is that the Skywatcher comes with a aluminium tripod whereas the Celestron has a steel tripod.
Unfortunately, the CG4 is too heavy for me, and the EQ-3/2 has a capacity of just 5kg.
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