Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

Discuss telescope eyepieces.
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Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

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The Starbase four element ‘orthoscopic’ series of eyepieces are distributed by Takahashi Seisakusho Ltd. There are supposedly five in the range consisting of: 20mm, 18mm, 14mm, 9mm and 6mm focal lengths. The 6mm and 14mm versions are bundled with the Starbase 80 telescope package.

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The Starbase achromat and the eyepiece series are apparently both made by the Kubota Optical Corporation in Hanamaki, Japan. The eyepieces are not a traditional Abbe orthoscopic design and are purportedly an asymmetrical doublet defined and designated as an Orthoscopic Plossl (Orthoscopic/PL). They are recommended for use with focal ratios up to f/6.

“In the early days, it was made by Cook in England and Steinheil in Germany. This is an achromat type eyepiece that combines two Ramsden lenses. A well-made Japanese-made eyepiece is an almighty eyepiece that can be used from low to high magnification because ghosts are not noticeable and spherical aberration and distortion are small. By the way, NIKON's orthoscopic eyepieces, which are still very popular today, were PL type”

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~ op cit (diagram and definition from the Scopetech webpage).

Etymologically the compound adjective ‘orthoscopic’ literally means corrected vision. Unlike most contemporary modern eyepieces the Starbase series probably aren’t edge-blacked. They feature a ‘retro’ volcano top without rubber eyeguards. The eyepieces each have a single high quality coating as opposed to being multi-coated (I'll return to this later). Kubota proclaim that the rationale behind using only a single coating of superior quality is that it gives much better transmission than relatively inexpensive mass produced multi-coatings. Although it has also been posited that it is more to do with axial light scatter. Except for the barrel undercut they have the vintage appearance of an erstwhile era. The AFOV varies between 43° and 53° throughout the range.

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The 20mm has a 45° AFOV and 14mm of eye relief. I make the eye lens a decent 17mm with a 15mm field stop. I find this a quite pleasant eyepiece to use. Around 13-14mm is my preferred eye relief distance. The field stop is sharp and defined, as the stops are throughout the range. The chromed brass barrel is high quality with good baffling and has a filter thread. Although, to my chagrin, I discovered my broadband Explore Scientific OIII and Astronomik UCE-E filters would only thread in a small amount. This problem was the same with the other focal lengths.

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It should be enough when placed in a 1.25” diagonal. I would have concerns about it coming loose in a 2” diagonal or a Newtonian focuser. My Baader filters had no problems in any of the four eyepieces. Interestingly the ES OIII has no issues at all threading smoothly and completely into my 1.25” Tele Vue Everbrite and Baader BBHS diagonal nosepieces. So, no surprise there then with the known compatibility issues of Japanese filter threads! The end caps fit well and the undercut gave me no problems. In my f/5.8 Sky-Watcher Evostar 72ED DS Pro, at 21x for a 3.4mm exit pupil, it gave nearly a hundred and twenty nine arc minutes of true field of view. This is nigh on four and a third Full Moons and only around twelve arc minutes less than my 25mm Ohi-made Abbe orthoscopic. I could just about get the entire Coat Hanger (Brocchi’s Cluster) in the FOV. The 20mm eyepiece showed an abundantly bright, well contrasted image, displaying excellent transmission and on-axis acuity. However there is some lateral astigmatism approaching the field stop. I did expect this with the f/5.8 Evostar as it is a bit unforgiving with some eyepiece designs. I tend to observe mainly on-axis anyway so it didn’t really bother me. Apart from the thread issue the ES OIII worked well with the 20mm giving me a vivid view of M27 and nicely revealing the Eastern and Western Veil Nebulae.

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At 53° the 14mm has the widest AFOV, and in my opinion it definitely shows. My first impression was of a very agreeable field of view for such a physically small eyepiece. I make the eye lens 15mm and the field stop at least 13mm. I find the 12mm eye relief to be quite comfortable. Eye placement is undemanding and the eyepiece has a good ergonomic feel about it. Although it also showed some astigmatism towards the field stop. The transmission was bright, well above average, and I even got a glimpse of M57 at 30x. When deployed in a 2x Vixen Deluxe Barlow for 60x it was equally sharp, the astigmatism had disappeared, and it displayed no vignetting. I found both Hercules clusters at 60x with ease and split several doubles including the beautiful γ Andromedae.

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The 9mm has a 45° field and the 7mm eye relief is about average for its focal length. By comparison my 9mm Circle-T Abbe has a 7.6mm eye relief. When used in conjunction with the Vixen Barlow in my 72ED DS Pro the 9mm Orthoscopic/PL really came into its own as a planetary eyepiece. The Barlow slightly improved the close eye relief. Both Saturn and Jupiter were very sharp at 93.3x. Colour separation and contrast were excellent. The Cassini Division and some surface detail on Saturn were easily observed as was Titan. I was impressed with the amount of detail I could actually see as Jupiter approached transit. Although occasionally I thought I detected a tiny bit of scatter. The planet was quite bright and only a few weeks from opposition though. I was also using a Baader Neodymium filter in the diagonal nosepiece which may have contributed to this effect in some way. It was a damp and dew laden early morning session. With excessive humidity filters can often have a tendency to fog slightly in the nosepiece. I believe I also occasionally saw a hint of the reflection of my own cornea, which may be a consequence of the single coating. After some use this disappeared. In later sessions I didn’t notice either phenomena. The barrel undercut plays well in the Vixen Barlow as it has no compression ring.

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With only 4mm of eye relief and a 43° apparent field the 6mm Orthoscopic/PL is the least ergonomic of the quartet. Again, compared to an Abbe of the same focal length, it has almost a millimetre less eye relief. Images of Saturn and Jupiter used without a Barlow in the 72ED at 70x were very sharp and bright. The intensity of the rich colours and excellent contrast impressed me. I was immediately quite taken with the 6mm O/PL, especially when used in the Vixen Barlow. The volcano top almost certainly contributed to the comparative ease of viewing and eye positioning. I’d expected it to be more demanding to use, so this was a pleasant surprise. At 140x (with the Barlow) the 6mm O/PL gave an approximate 0.5mm exit pupil. I split ε Boötis and I thought it was one of the best views of the binary I’d had so far that year. As Cassiopeia got higher in the sky I discovered ι Cassiopeiae also split beautifully. I’m convinced these views were enhanced by the above average transmission of the single coating.

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Saturn still looked excellent even when it was past transit. During the first session it wasn’t quite as sharp on Jupiter at 140x. This wasn’t surprising however as the seeing was only average and the transparency was relatively poor. What was surprising was just how well the 6mm performed on Jupiter at 140x in a 72mm ED doublet. In a later session of better conditions I could see what appeared like Ganymede’s shadow on the surface near the limb. I actually first witnessed this at 93x with the Barlowed 9mm. I knew Ganymede would eventually become visible as it transited the surface. I impatiently switched back to the 6mm as I wanted to view this emergence before I lost the transparency. Eventually I was rewarded with the bright point of light of Ganymede seemingly separating itself from the planetary limb.

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The Starbase O/PL’s were originally acquired for my 102mm Sky-Watcher SkyMax Maksutov Cassegrain. Its focal ratio of f/12.7 should ameliorate any aberration problems that were noticed in the faster scope. The initial rationale behind buying these eyepieces was that they were relatively light in weight, ergonomic (I like volcano tops), and had good build quality. The whole SkyMax grab and go kit needed to be light and portable and fit into a small holdall-type bag.

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The 20mm Starbase gave me a nice view of Saturn and Jupiter at 65x. It was when I started using the 14mm it started getting interesting. Although I did notice the undercut snagging occasionally when swapping eyepieces. The three screws of the Baader helical compression ring can often be a little finicky with barrel undercuts. The 14mm O/PL gave a fairly sharp 92.8x. The seeing was above average, but not as good as the previous night. Jupiter’s GRS was just noticeable near the western limb and would be about central at transit (03:20). Ganymede, Callisto, and Io were close together on the western side of the planet with Europa on the opposite side. I could perceive colour in the moons and discern some Jovian surface detail. As the planet rotated the GRS became more easily visible. I decided it was time for the 9mm ‘Orthoscopic Plossl’. At 144x I lost a lot of acuity and furthermore there appeared to be quite noticeable ghosting. Jupiter was very bright with a visual magnitude of -2.8.

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Overall I like these 'retro' eyepieces. Although purists may find they perform better at f/8 or slower. However, they do have certain faults in my opinion. The single coating is probably the biggest contributing factor. The advantage is above average transmission, ideal for many deep sky objects. Unfortunately the single coating appears to be responsible for a fair amount of ghosting and light scatter. On the other hand, the colour separation, contrast and acuity are very good. 'Swings and roundabouts' as we say in my country.
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

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Post by notFritzArgelander »


I’ve got a set and they’re very nice. I filed an observation report using then. IIRC the longer focal length items have Plossl design heritage and the shorter ones are Abbe’. At least mine are.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

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Post by Shorty Barlow »


notFritzArgelander wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:10 am I’ve got a set and they’re very nice. I filed an observation report using then. IIRC the longer focal length items have Plossl design heritage and the shorter ones are Abbe’. At least mine are.

I haven't taken mine to pieces, so I can't really say. I'm still kind of ambivalent about them to be honest. I thought the 6mm was very good and the 14mm quite pleasant to use. I've given up the idea of using them in any of my Mak's for lunar/planetary. I replaced them with a set of Meade Plossls for my 102mm SkyMax. I think they might be OK with my f/7.5 modified 80ED DS Pro Evostar. The undercuts bug me lol.
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

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Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:21 am
notFritzArgelander wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:10 am I’ve got a set and they’re very nice. I filed an observation report using then. IIRC the longer focal length items have Plossl design heritage and the shorter ones are Abbe’. At least mine are.

I haven't taken mine to pieces, so I can't really say. I'm still kind of ambivalent about them to be honest. I thought the 6mm was very good and the 14mm quite pleasant to use. I've given up the idea of using them in any of my Mak's for lunar/planetary. I replaced them with a set of Meade Plossls for my 102mm SkyMax. I think they might be OK with my f/7.5 modified 80ED DS Pro Evostar. The undercuts bug me lol.
I’m not a fan of the undercuts either. I think that they are good value for lunar and planetary. They’re not in the class of the KK Fujiyama set but I keep them as good enough for outreach to folks outside the family who might not be trustable with keeping their bodily secretions off the optics. ;)
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

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notFritzArgelander wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:35 am
Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:21 am
notFritzArgelander wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:10 am I’ve got a set and they’re very nice. I filed an observation report using then. IIRC the longer focal length items have Plossl design heritage and the shorter ones are Abbe’. At least mine are.

I haven't taken mine to pieces, so I can't really say. I'm still kind of ambivalent about them to be honest. I thought the 6mm was very good and the 14mm quite pleasant to use. I've given up the idea of using them in any of my Mak's for lunar/planetary. I replaced them with a set of Meade Plossls for my 102mm SkyMax. I think they might be OK with my f/7.5 modified 80ED DS Pro Evostar. The undercuts bug me lol.
I’m not a fan of the undercuts either. I think that they are good value for lunar and planetary. They’re not in the class of the KK Fujiyama set but I keep them as good enough for outreach to folks outside the family who might not be trustable with keeping their bodily secretions off the optics. ;)


I wouldn't put them in the same class as the Ohi-made ortho's either. I think using them for outreach is a good idea. I reckon they're good for splitting doubles and some deep sky. The ghosting annoyed me when bright lunar viewing. I'm tempted to compare the 6mm with my 6mm Tak' ortho' on Mars. When the thunderstorms stop. I'm hoping for another heatwave.
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

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Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:43 am
notFritzArgelander wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:35 am
Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:21 am


I haven't taken mine to pieces, so I can't really say. I'm still kind of ambivalent about them to be honest. I thought the 6mm was very good and the 14mm quite pleasant to use. I've given up the idea of using them in any of my Mak's for lunar/planetary. I replaced them with a set of Meade Plossls for my 102mm SkyMax. I think they might be OK with my f/7.5 modified 80ED DS Pro Evostar. The undercuts bug me lol.
I’m not a fan of the undercuts either. I think that they are good value for lunar and planetary. They’re not in the class of the KK Fujiyama set but I keep them as good enough for outreach to folks outside the family who might not be trustable with keeping their bodily secretions off the optics. ;)


I wouldn't put them in the same class as the Ohi-made ortho's either. I think using them for outreach is a good idea. I reckon they're good for splitting doubles and some deep sky. The ghosting annoyed me when bright lunar viewing. I'm tempted to compare the 6mm with my 6mm Tak' ortho' on Mars. When the thunderstorms stop. I'm hoping for another heatwave.
We, I didn't recall the designs correctly. The longer FLs are Kellner and the shorter are rumored to be remakes (at lower cost) of Clave' Plossls. I dug out my older observing reports on these items.

viewtopic.php?t=11777

Note that the Starbase oculars actually outperformed the KKs on M51's spiral arms.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

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Post by Shorty Barlow »


notFritzArgelander wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:12 am
Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:43 am
notFritzArgelander wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:35 am

I’m not a fan of the undercuts either. I think that they are good value for lunar and planetary. They’re not in the class of the KK Fujiyama set but I keep them as good enough for outreach to folks outside the family who might not be trustable with keeping their bodily secretions off the optics. ;)


I wouldn't put them in the same class as the Ohi-made ortho's either. I think using them for outreach is a good idea. I reckon they're good for splitting doubles and some deep sky. The ghosting annoyed me when bright lunar viewing. I'm tempted to compare the 6mm with my 6mm Tak' ortho' on Mars. When the thunderstorms stop. I'm hoping for another heatwave.
We, I didn't recall the designs correctly. The longer FLs are Kellner and the shorter are rumored to be remakes (at lower cost) of Clave' Plossls. I dug out my older observing reports on these items.

viewtopic.php?t=11777

Note that the Starbase oculars actually outperformed the KKs on M51's spiral arms.

I believe Kubota make Kellners. I can't find their website. Although my Japanese isn't really up to it anyway. The Starbase are a bit *Marmite in my opinion. People seem to either love them or hate them. I was impressed with them on some DSO's though and it doesn't surprise me they outperformed an Abbe ortho' on some things.

*Marmite and Vegemite are yeast extract savoury food spreads. Most people outside of the Commonwealth find them unpalatable. Australians, New Zealanders and British people argue constantly which is the better spread. At least 50% of Poms, Aussies and Kiwis can't stand either where the other half think they are divine (especially on toast). In the UK saying something is 'Marmite' is basically stating that you either love it or hate it.
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

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Post by notFritzArgelander »


Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:40 am
notFritzArgelander wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:12 am
Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:43 am



I wouldn't put them in the same class as the Ohi-made ortho's either. I think using them for outreach is a good idea. I reckon they're good for splitting doubles and some deep sky. The ghosting annoyed me when bright lunar viewing. I'm tempted to compare the 6mm with my 6mm Tak' ortho' on Mars. When the thunderstorms stop. I'm hoping for another heatwave.
We, I didn't recall the designs correctly. The longer FLs are Kellner and the shorter are rumored to be remakes (at lower cost) of Clave' Plossls. I dug out my older observing reports on these items.

viewtopic.php?t=11777

Note that the Starbase oculars actually outperformed the KKs on M51's spiral arms.

I believe Kubota make Kellners. I can't find their website. Although my Japanese isn't really up to it anyway. The Starbase are a bit *Marmite in my opinion. People seem to either love them or hate them. I was impressed with them on some DSO's though and it doesn't surprise me they outperformed an Abbe ortho' on some things.

*Marmite and Vegemite are yeast extract savoury food spreads. Most people outside of the Commonwealth find them unpalatable. Australians, New Zealanders and British people argue constantly which is the better spread. At least 50% of Poms, Aussies and Kiwis can't stand either where the other half think they are divine (especially on toast). In the UK saying something is 'Marmite' is basically stating that you either love it or hate it.
I don't know. I only get passionate about violations of logic. :) So most things that are "love it or hate it" turn out to be at least mildly pleasurable. I think that the minimalist design and simple coatings helps with light throughput. I can't find the planetary comparison of the KKs and Starbase but with brighter targets the KKs were crisper.

I'm familiar with Marmite and Vegemite. However the marmite I am most familiar with is Escoffier's Petite Marmite which has little to do with the British delicacy.

https://www.theramblingepicure.com/fren ... e-marmite/
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

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notFritzArgelander wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:02 am
Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:40 am
notFritzArgelander wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:12 am

We, I didn't recall the designs correctly. The longer FLs are Kellner and the shorter are rumored to be remakes (at lower cost) of Clave' Plossls. I dug out my older observing reports on these items.

viewtopic.php?t=11777

Note that the Starbase oculars actually outperformed the KKs on M51's spiral arms.

I believe Kubota make Kellners. I can't find their website. Although my Japanese isn't really up to it anyway. The Starbase are a bit *Marmite in my opinion. People seem to either love them or hate them. I was impressed with them on some DSO's though and it doesn't surprise me they outperformed an Abbe ortho' on some things.

*Marmite and Vegemite are yeast extract savoury food spreads. Most people outside of the Commonwealth find them unpalatable. Australians, New Zealanders and British people argue constantly which is the better spread. At least 50% of Poms, Aussies and Kiwis can't stand either where the other half think they are divine (especially on toast). In the UK saying something is 'Marmite' is basically stating that you either love it or hate it.
I don't know. I only get passionate about violations of logic. :) So most things that are "love it or hate it" turn out to be at least mildly pleasurable. I think that the minimalist design and simple coatings helps with light throughput. I can't find the planetary comparison of the KKs and Starbase but with brighter targets the KKs were crisper.

I'm familiar with Marmite and Vegemite. However the marmite I am most familiar with is Escoffier's Petite Marmite which has little to do with the British delicacy.

https://www.theramblingepicure.com/fren ... e-marmite/

Yeah, I'm pretty convinced the single coatings aid the transmission. I always thought the Ohi ortho's had better transmission than Tak' ortho's. Although the Tak's had better contrast. I attributed this to the coatings. IIRC the Starbase were pretty crisp on planetary, although some scatter and ghosting distracted me a little bit. This could be as much to do with the scope and light train though. Notwithstanding a lack of edge blacking. I'm definitely a Marmite person (not Kiwi Marmite though as it's different to the UK Marmite). lol
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

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I can see a scenario where single coating can outperform budget multicoating in transmission. However, if we are talking about top performers, premium multicoating in my experience with faint galaxies always outperforms single coating. Of cause, it is apples to oranges since none of premium EPs are offered with single coating. There should be a good reason for that. :)
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.
Solar: HA: Lunt 50mm single stack, W/L: Meade Herschel wedge.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2437, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 257
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

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Bigzmey wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:32 pm I can see a scenario where single coating can outperform budget multicoating in transmission. However, if we are talking about top performers, premium multicoating in my experience with faint galaxies always outperforms single coating. Of cause, it is apples to oranges since none of premium EPs are offered with single coating. There should be a good reason for that. :)

I think the single coatings on the Starbase are for reasons of economy to be honest. In certain conditions the Starbase could well occasionally outperform premium multicoated eyepieces. But I doubt if this would be the norm. IMHO these eyepieces are a bit too retro. The multicoated (JOC) Meade Plossls I replaced them with on my Maksutov don't show any ghosting or scatter. Takahashi might distribute Starbase EP's but they don't actually put their name on them.
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

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Post by notFritzArgelander »


Bigzmey wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:32 pm I can see a scenario where single coating can outperform budget multicoating in transmission. However, if we are talking about top performers, premium multicoating in my experience with faint galaxies always outperforms single coating. Of cause, it is apples to oranges since none of premium EPs are offered with single coating. There should be a good reason for that. :)
I kind of agree and disagree. For detection at the very limits of observability my preferred EPs are TV Plossls. But sometimes if that doesn't work I'll try a single coated Kellner. Sometimes it's rewarding. Apart from the single versus multicoating issue there's just the glass path length and absorption issue also. How it plays out "depends".
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

#13

Post by Shorty Barlow »


I always thought reversed Kellners had really good transmission because they are only three element.

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They have other issues of course.

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Bigzmey United States of America
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

#14

Post by Bigzmey »


notFritzArgelander wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:32 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:32 pm I can see a scenario where single coating can outperform budget multicoating in transmission. However, if we are talking about top performers, premium multicoating in my experience with faint galaxies always outperforms single coating. Of cause, it is apples to oranges since none of premium EPs are offered with single coating. There should be a good reason for that. :)
I kind of agree and disagree. For detection at the very limits of observability my preferred EPs are TV Plossls. But sometimes if that doesn't work I'll try a single coated Kellner. Sometimes it's rewarding. Apart from the single versus multicoating issue there's just the glass path length and absorption issue also. How it plays out "depends".
This is why it is apples to oranges. When you comparing TV Plossl to Kellner other design differences are also in play. I was just thinking the other day how it would be really great if they would offer older designs (Kellner, Konig, Erfle) but with premium finishes and modern HTS coatings.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

#15

Post by Bigzmey »


Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:47 pm I always thought reversed Kellners had really good transmission because they are only three element.

Image

They have other issues of course.

Image
It is all down to execution. Some of the worst dark EPs I ever had were budget single-coated Kellners.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.
Solar: HA: Lunt 50mm single stack, W/L: Meade Herschel wedge.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2437, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 257
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

#16

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Bigzmey wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:52 pm
Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:47 pm I always thought reversed Kellners had really good transmission because they are only three element.

Image

They have other issues of course.

Image
It is all down to execution. Some of the worst dark EPs I ever had were budget single-coated Kellners.
Which is why the Starbase Kellner offerings are surprisingly good. It's dangerous to overgeneralize.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

#17

Post by Shorty Barlow »


Bigzmey wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:52 pm
Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:47 pm I always thought reversed Kellners had really good transmission because they are only three element.

Image

They have other issues of course.

Image
It is all down to execution. Some of the worst dark EPs I ever had were budget single-coated Kellners.

I think the 'budget' bit says it all lol. I'm pretty convinced Kubota's claims about the benefits of the Starbase single coatings is marketing spiel.
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

#18

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:00 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:52 pm
Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:47 pm I always thought reversed Kellners had really good transmission because they are only three element.

Image

They have other issues of course.

Image
It is all down to execution. Some of the worst dark EPs I ever had were budget single-coated Kellners.

I think the 'budget' bit says it all lol. I'm pretty convinced Kubota's claims about the benefits of the Starbase single coatings is marketing spiel.
I'm pretty convinced that it's not mere spiel. Sure it's cheaper but they perform surprisingly well. Having reviewed the issue, I may need to do a head to head versus TV Plossls.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

#19

Post by Shorty Barlow »


notFritzArgelander wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:08 pm
Shorty Barlow wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:00 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:52 pm

It is all down to execution. Some of the worst dark EPs I ever had were budget single-coated Kellners.

I think the 'budget' bit says it all lol. I'm pretty convinced Kubota's claims about the benefits of the Starbase single coatings is marketing spiel.
I'm pretty convinced that it's not mere spiel. Sure it's cheaper but they perform surprisingly well. Having reviewed the issue, I may need to do a head to head versus TV Plossls.
The Starbase aren't exactly premium eyepieces though. The 6mm cost me about 60 quid. I'm pretty convinced if it had been made in China it would have been half that at least.
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Re: Starbase 'Orthoscopic Plossls'

#20

Post by Shorty Barlow »


I finally collected a set of Tak' ortho's.

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By comparison the Japanese made Takahashi orthoscopics can individually cost up to three times the amount of the Starbase.
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