Observing Report for 01 September 2022 - last night the ecstasy, tonight the agony

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kt4hx United States of America
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Re: Observing Report for 01 September 2022 - last night the ecstasy, tonight the agony

#21

Post by kt4hx »


terrynak wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:33 am Chile is another place I've thought about going, with a telescope. Or maybe the western part of Argentina (I've been to that country twice). But definitely want to return to Aus/NZ.

There is a place at San Pedro de Atacama run by Alain Maury. He has a lodge there, plus telescopes that you can rent out to observe the southern skies. They also do sky tours I believe. Not sure of the costs associated with staying there and using their scopes, but it is one possible option to enjoy the riches of the southern sky without dragging too much along with you. Here is the link:

https://www.spaceobs.com/en
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Unitron48 United States of America
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Re: Observing Report for 01 September 2022 - last night the ecstasy, tonight the agony

#22

Post by Unitron48 »


Unitron48 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:37 am Nice reporting, Alan. Glad you are feeling better. I'm up in Berkeley Springs with the wife, relaxing!! No telescope!!

Dave
And congrats on another well deserved VROD! Should include a "V" device (valor and heroism) for pressing on while ill!

Dave
Unitron (60mm, 102mm), Brandon 94
Stellarvue SVX127D
http://www.unitronhistory.com

"Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better." Albert Einstein
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kt4hx United States of America
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Re: Observing Report for 01 September 2022 - last night the ecstasy, tonight the agony

#23

Post by kt4hx »


Unitron48 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 3:06 pm
Unitron48 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:37 am Nice reporting, Alan. Glad you are feeling better. I'm up in Berkeley Springs with the wife, relaxing!! No telescope!!

Dave
And congrats on another well deserved VROD! Should include a "V" device (valor and heroism) for pressing on while ill!

Dave

Thank you Dave. I don't know about a "V". Perhaps "Dunce of the Week" award would be more appropriate! :lol: But once I started feeling a bit iffy, I did pull the plug. I've had a time or two when I was over there that I started feeling bad before I went out and simply postponed the event. While I am a hardcore observer, I try not to be too stupid about it! ;)
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Frankskywatcher United States of America
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Re: Observing Report for 01 September 2022 - last night the ecstasy, tonight the agony

#24

Post by Frankskywatcher »


Awesome report my friend !
I must admit that I am a bit jealous with a 10” dob and a Bortle 4 Sky I have yet to see a galaxy ( I think I have seen them but they are just globs) clearly like I have the planets!
How do you manage to (1) stay awake and (2) move that thing around ?
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago ! :Astronomer1:

Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian

Polaris 4” Dobsonian

7x50 binoculars
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kt4hx United States of America
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Re: Observing Report for 01 September 2022 - last night the ecstasy, tonight the agony

#25

Post by kt4hx »


Frankskywatcher wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:38 pm Awesome report my friend !
I must admit that I am a bit jealous with a 10” dob and a Bortle 4 Sky I have yet to see a galaxy ( I think I have seen them but they are just globs) clearly like I have the planets!
How do you manage to (1) stay awake and (2) move that thing around ?

Thank you Frank. You should most definitely see galaxies with a 10 inch in a B4 sky. The most important thing there is experience and perspective. The latter does come with the former. Truly seeing dimmer extended objects is not an intuitive thing, but a skill that one must learn and hone. We must train our eye to see subtle variations of light and dark to pick up these objects. Granted there are some brighter ones that are not so difficult, but given that galaxies are far and away the most prevalent DSO up there, the majority are challenging. Thus we must learn not only to find them, but to see them. Its not a case of simply looking, but of truly seeing.

I will recommend a couple of articles I wrote some time ago. One was about observing galaxies, the second about what details to look for in various DSOs and how to interpret what you do see. Hopefully they will help you out. Here are the links:

app.php/article/why-can%CA%B9t-i-see-that-galaxy%CA%94

app.php/article/deep-sky-objects-and-their-observation


Perspective is about what we expect to see and what we do see. Many beginners are spoiled by images of objects and don't consider that is not what they will see visually. Some objects may take time to find simply because we pass over them without noticing them. When looking for an object slow down. Let your eye adjust to the slowly changing field as we look for something that we are not used to seeing. Once you locate a given object it is typically easier to find it again. This is because you now have that all important "perspective" of what you should see.

Now, besides learning how to see galaxies we must also learn how to find them, as well as any other object up there. Star hopping is not an intuitive skill either. One must practice this art, and I do see it as an art. Learning how to interpret what we see through a finder scope and an eyepiece, and compare that to what we see in an atlas (either printed or electronic) is something we learn and improve with more experience. All this is truly a case of desire and patience. We all make mistakes in trying to find objects. Doing this for decades I still get off on the wrong path sometimes. But the key there is not to become frustrated. Simply go back to your starting point and figure out where you went wrong and correct it.

As to your questions, 1) I can only stay awake so long. During the summer months it gets astronomically dark so late that we have little choice as to when we observe. But as the nights get longer we can start earlier if we choose. Since I am fully retired, I don't have any daily commitments to meet, so I can sleep in late most days if I choose to do so. That does help of course. Question 2), moving the 17.5 inch in terms of deployment, well I have wheelbarrow handles and 10 inch pneumatic tires on it. So I simply roll it in and out of the garage at our dark site house. When in use, it moves just as any dobsonian mounted reflector does. It weighs more than your 10 inch, but the movements are the same and not difficult.

Do check out the article I linked. I hope that it clarifies some things about observing galaxies. I highly recommend tracking down M31 in Andromeda as a first attempt at a galaxy. Typically the first thing most will notice is its bright core. It does extend far beyond that core, but the core is brighter and more apparent. So give it a try sometime and just be patient. Good luck Frank.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: Observing Report for 01 September 2022 - last night the ecstasy, tonight the agony

#26

Post by Frankskywatcher »


Hey Alan thanks so much for your insight and advise as well as those links which I will certainly read !
You are right about perspective as someone else noted after seeing Saturn they said to me “ it’s like someone made it out of paper and hung it then put a flashlight on it “ and indeed that description was accurate it’s about perspective !
You touched on so many good points about really observing and star hopping and slowing down to really observe.
Thank you for taking the time to respond and at length to fully explain your thoughts again thanks Alan!👏🏻
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago ! :Astronomer1:

Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian

Polaris 4” Dobsonian

7x50 binoculars
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Re: Observing Report for 01 September 2022 - last night the ecstasy, tonight the agony

#27

Post by kt4hx »


Frankskywatcher wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:31 pm Hey Alan thanks so much for your insight and advise as well as those links which I will certainly read !
You are right about perspective as someone else noted after seeing Saturn they said to me “ it’s like someone made it out of paper and hung it then put a flashlight on it “ and indeed that description was accurate it’s about perspective !
You touched on so many good points about really observing and star hopping and slowing down to really observe.
Thank you for taking the time to respond and at length to fully explain your thoughts again thanks Alan!👏🏻

You are quite welcome Frank. I truly hope what I provided makes sense and helps you out. Never hesitate to drop me a PM should you have any questions about the points I make pertaining to deep sky observing.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: Observing Report for 01 September 2022 - last night the ecstasy, tonight the agony

#28

Post by Frankskywatcher »


I certainly will my friend
,thank you so much for the enlightenment !
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago ! :Astronomer1:

Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian

Polaris 4” Dobsonian

7x50 binoculars
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Re: Observing Report for 01 September 2022 - last night the ecstasy, tonight the agony

#29

Post by Frankskywatcher »


I just finished reading both articles!
I will say not only are they very well written but explaining complex concepts and then making them shall we say “ Astronomy for dummies” that would be me lol!😁
Really fascinating but more importantly gave me a better insight as to not only what to look for but how to look for them as well!

I just watched this video and they touched on all the different types of galaxies , nebulae, all the things you touched on in your two papers !
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago ! :Astronomer1:

Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian

Polaris 4” Dobsonian

7x50 binoculars
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Re: Observing Report for 01 September 2022 - last night the ecstasy, tonight the agony

#30

Post by kt4hx »


Frankskywatcher wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:07 am I just finished reading both articles!
I will say not only are they very well written but explaining complex concepts and then making them shall we say “ Astronomy for dummies” that would be me lol!😁
Really fascinating but more importantly gave me a better insight as to not only what to look for but how to look for them as well!

I just watched this video and they touched on all the different types of galaxies , nebulae, all the things you touched on in your two papers !

Thank you Frank, and I am very pleased that you found the articles informative and insightful. The thing is, we are all beginners, to at least some extent, whether we just took a telescope out for the first time or we've been doing so for decades. While I am in the latter group, I certainly do not know it all nor have I seen it all. Astronomy is a perpetual learning curve, and all of us are at our own point along that curve. I am found of saying the more we learn the more fun we have, and the more fun we have the more we learn. I truly believe that. Learning how to become a good observer, with good observing skills, is about practice and the desire to move beyond simply looking at the sky. Some folks take the hobby as a casual affair, while others take it more seriously. There is no wrong or right there, simply whatever best fits with the individual and what they seek to extract from the pastime. So I wish you good luck as you embark on your personal journey through the universe and wherever it leads you. Never forget the joys of learning and having fun.

Thank you for the video link, I shall give it a look. :)
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: Observing Report for 01 September 2022 - last night the ecstasy, tonight the agony

#31

Post by Frankskywatcher »


I always love reading your reports they are so fascinating and a pleasure to read !
Every time that I’m out observing I can hear in the back of my brain what you had said about “discerning eyes” and learning how to observe better.
I slowed down a lot now when I’m just cruising the galaxy ,I’ve also noticed even using a Star Chart or when I look at my planisphere, say looking at Vega and there’s a double star next to it .
However if I don’t pay attention, one little nudge of the scope and I’m way past where the double star on the chart is so I’m still learning to go slow.
On another note and I think I mentioned it before but I noticed that we’re both hams, by the way my callsign is WR1R I got my ticket punched in 1989.
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago ! :Astronomer1:

Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian

Polaris 4” Dobsonian

7x50 binoculars
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kt4hx United States of America
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Re: Observing Report for 01 September 2022 - last night the ecstasy, tonight the agony

#32

Post by kt4hx »


Thank you Frank, your comments are always appreciated. The real key when looking for DSOs and observing them is slow down. As we sweep across the sky our observing eye has to adjust to the ever changing field and thus it needs a moment or two to sort out what it is seeing. Also, with many dimmer, extended objects (think galaxies and nebulae), our eyes need that extra time to pick up their sometimes subtle light against the sky. A prime example of this is when people try to find Messier 1 in Taurus the first time. A lot of folks pass right over it without seeing it initially. By slowing down your eye-brain connection has time to make that connection of "hey, there is something there!" That is why M1 has a reputation amongst beginners as a difficult object, when in fact it is not that difficult. But once people figure this out, and they've found M1 a couple of times, they have little difficulty in returning to it later on. In the case of deep sky observing the old saying "practice makes perfect" is very accurate.

Indeed I recall you mentioning the ham radio connection. If memory serves me (and at 68 it sometimes does not!), I mentioned that I have not been active in a long time. I did a fair amount of operating on the DX side of things which was a blast. Now I focus my spare time energies solely on astronomy, which was my first hobby as a young boy. :)
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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