Might need a new observatory computer

[KathyNS]

My observatory computer is several years old, and is starting to act weird.

It won't boot unattended. I suspect that might just be a dead BIOS battery. It takes a standard 2032 coin battery, but with welded contacts. So that could be a relatively easy fix, though a PITA.

More seriously, the USB devices are suddenly not working right. The worst is the Atik EFW2. Its USB has always been fragile: it will often fail to start in a known state. But now, even if it starts okay, it will drop offline without warning. My nStep focuser will often fail to connect. My ASI120MC skycam frequently gives errors. Things got worse when I connected a new 5Tb external backup drive to a USB 3.0 port. But after I removed it, it didn't improve.

I am not sure that a dead BIOS battery would account for the USB problems. So I think the computer is dying.

I use it for both session control and processing. I need to be able to support a lot of USB devices. The current computer has an RS-232 port, which I use for the mount. If I can't find a replacement with RS-232, then add one more USB device to the list.

USB devices:
- EFW2 filter wheel
- Atik 383L+ camera
- nStep focuser
- mouse
- keyboard
- QHY5 guide camera
- ASI120MC sky camera
- one archive disk
- two backup disks
- Davis weather station
- 1-Wire adapter for misc temperature sensors
- Arduino for dome control
- Arduino for power control
- iOptron CEM-60 (if I can't get RS-232)
- several USB hubs and several USB active extension cords (equivalent to hubs)

For processing, the current computer has 8 cores, 8Gb of memory, 1Tb disk in two partitions, 3.1 GHz. Pro version of Windows, for WRD server. I would want something similar for a replacement machine. And of course, I want to minimize the cost.

If anyone knows of a vendor, preferably in Canada, who would have something like this, I would appreciate hearing about it. I am not ruling out getting this one fixed, if I can track down the problems, but I am not optimistic.

[Thefatkitty]

Hi Kathy, sorry to hear of your computer woes. I agree about the CMOS; if the battery was dead the system time/date wouldn't be correct.

I took a look around my location, and if it's in stock(!), a PC with your current specs is about 700-900 CDN. Ouch. A question: Could you use two PC's to do what you need? I'm just wondering; you seem to have an overload of USB devices on the one PC.

Another thing could be dust, etc. My PC was acting "picky" about 6 months ago; USB issues. I popped the cover off and the amount of dust/cat fur was nothing short of impressive. It sits on the floor so no surprise there. I took it outside with my Rigid shop vac, took the bag out, put the hose on the exhaust end, and blew all the crap out of it. One thing to be careful of is the power supply; the shop vac will blow out components (literally) if too much "wind" gets into it. Do that at an angle if you can:D
I would also recommend "stopping" the fans; a thin piece of plastic between the grate and the fan blades will ensure you don't cook the bearings.

After that, the USB issues disappeared. I also built a little wooden platform to keep the PC about 6 inches above the floor, and it's still quite clean inside.

I found this PC by the side of the road just over 6 years ago. It has an i5 processor with 4 cores and threads at 2.67 GHz, 8GB of ram, an nVidia Geforce 210 and a Seagate 1TB SATA drive. I run Linux Mint on it, and it does a nice job with my Sun/Moon attempts.

All that to say, hope some of this helps. And i'll keep an eye to the side of the road for you too

All the best,

[KathyNS]

Thanks, Mark.

I hadn't thought about dust/contamination as a cause, but it is certainly possible. The computer is on a shelf under the desk, about 16" off the floor, and there are no cats out there, but what there are are spiders and ants. There could be all sorts of horrors lurking inside the case.

I'll need to open it up anyway to do a proper recce on the BIOS battery, so a bit of cleaning at the same time would not be out of place. Interesting that cleaning solved your USB problems specifically.

[Juno16]

Hi Kathy,

I’m sure that you’ve already done this, but make sure to back up the pc and/or image the disk(s). Macrium Reflect software works great for disk imaging and is free for non-commercial use.
You might want to consider putting a pc together. You can swap your drives into a new case, add a new main board, ram, video card and cpu for a very moderate cost. Choosing last year’s components can save lots of money and still give you a top notch system at a much lower cost.
Imput an AMD 2800x system with 32g of ram and a modest AMD video card together several years ago for a very modest cost (about $500 US) and it still cruises through Pixinsight.
Just a thought. Good luck!

[Thefatkitty]

Thanks, Mark.

I hadn't thought about dust/contamination as a cause, but it is certainly possible. The computer is on a shelf under the desk, about 16" off the floor, and there are no cats out there, but what there are are spiders and ants. There could be all sorts of horrors lurking inside the case.

I'll need to open it up anyway to do a proper recce on the BIOS battery, so a bit of cleaning at the same time would not be out of place. Interesting that cleaning solved your USB problems specifically.

You're welcome, hope it helps! Your computer's living quarters is different from mine, but with ants and especially spiders; nice warm place to call home. And yes, the shop-vac treatment did solve my USB problems. I run 2 keyboards/mice (the computer runs my monitor and an older non-Smart LCD TV), two phone chargers, Canon camera, two portable backup drives, and at times various USB sticks; at the most ten devices. Not as much as you though! Before I blew out the crap my keyboard or mouse would randomly freeze, the backup drives would get "unmounted", and trying sometimes to get the Canon to talk to the PC; this went on for a month.... Haven't had a problem since. Electronics don't like heat, and dust is just a good insulator for that. Also the USB ports themselves, blow those out as well.

I like Jim's idea too; that would be a good way to go; build a dream system!

Look forward to hearing how it all pans out for you,

[The Wave Catcher]

Just as a caution…

When blowing or vacuuming dust out of a computer, be careful about electrostatic discharges (ESD). This can damage the electronics. Try not to touch the electronic components or circuit boards directly (with hands or blower/vacuum) and keep one hand on the chassis to try and keep things at the same voltage potential, while it is unplugged of course. It is necessary to do clean the dust out sometimes on desktop computers but keep this in mind.

[chris_g]

As far as your power supply is concerned, use a can of compressed air to clean it out. I'd also use it on the entire computer instead of a shop vac.

I had a buddy once that used a garden hose and a hair dryer on his.

[SkyHiker]

As far as your power supply is concerned, use a can of compressed air to clean it out. I'd also use it on the entire computer instead of a shop vac.

I had a buddy once that used a garden hose and a hair dryer on his.

I usually put my mouth over the entire ventilation outlet and blow hard, it seems to work.

[chris_g]

I usually put my mouth over the entire ventilation outlet and blow hard, it seems to work.

[KathyNS]

Update:

I spent some time this morning opening up the computer. The interior was surprisingly clean. I removed a few cobwebs. I checked the BIOS battery: it is a standard type and easily replaceable: socketed, rather than welded as I had been led to believe. I just need to pick one up next time I am in town. I am thinking that that should solve the failure to boot problem.

I noticed that it lost track of the date when the power was off, which supports the diagnosis of a dead battery.

While testing the computer after closing it up again, it wouldn't recognize the <del> key to enter the BIOS setup. For some reason, I had the keyboard connected via a hub. Reconnecting it directly, it had no trouble recognizing the keystroke. Which suggests a bad hub. That could explain a few of the USB malfunctions. Hubs, it seems, have a lifespan of about two years. That one may be past its "best before" date. I reconnected the USB devices to avoid that hub. I only have a couple of non-essential devices on it now. It is scheduled for replacement.

I also replaced a couple of USB cables. The main cable to the mount accessory port gets a lot of flexing when the mount moves in RA, and the connector was loose. I replaced it. The connector is still a bit loose, so I may at some point have to replace the female connector on the mount itself. I also replaced the cable to the EFW2 filter wheel. It uses one of those micro-USB connectors, which are an abomination, totally lacking in robustness.

The long and short of it is that I need a new battery and a new USB Hub. The computer is running for now. The filter wheel is still flaky. The focuser still needs an occasional kick to get it to connect.

I might need a new filter wheel, more than I need a new computer.

Further update:

Since two of the devices giving me connectivity problems are on the CEM-60 internal hub, I am going to have a shot at replacing/upgrading it. The mount is about 8 years old, which is well beyond the typical life expectancy of a hub. I will try a non-destructive upgrade first, and if it helps, I will likely rip out the built-in hub and replace it.

I ordered some USB 3.0 cables: a 3-foot, a 6-foot, and an active 15-foot extension. I already have an unpowered USB 3.0 hub that I can mount on the telescope mount.

Cheaper than a new computer if it helps.

[Gordon]

That's quite a few things that we all tend to forget. Constant use and reuse of cables, and connectors causes wear. Eventually, they will begin to fail, and not always 'consistently'.

I have a box of "junk" that has probably 50 USB cables that have never been used. It's probably a good idea for me to pull them out and replace my old ones!!!

[chris_g]

Hi Kathy,

I noticed you're using an active USB 3 cable, what's the longest cable run you've done?

[KathyNS]

Hi Kathy,

I noticed you're using an active USB 3 cable, what's the longest cable run you've done?

The run from the computer in the corner to the pier, down inside the wall, under the floor, and back up, is 5m.

[KathyNS]

Update:

I have tried some low-cost fixes, partly as diagnostics and partly to avoid spending big bucks unnecessarily. However, I have concluded that the problem is indeed the computer itself. The USB hardware in it is hooped, and it won't boot unattended. (In fact, with the dodgy USB, it sometimes won't boot attended either, if it can't see the keyboard.)

I ordered a replacement computer. It is pretty similar to the existing one, though a different brand. It should be a little faster, for processing. Only 8 USB ports instead of 10, so I ordered another hub. I'll have to use a USB - RS-232 adapter for the mount, since the new machine doesn't have a real RS-232 port. Still, it was a good price, and delivery is scheduled for next week.

[JayTee]

Yay, for the new computer.

Good decision.

[KathyNS]

The new computer works, but it is not in service yet. I have installed the software I need and tested the USB devices. Its USB gets overloaded more easily than the old one, so I am going to have to split the load. I will run both computers, with the old one running 24/7 and handling the weather station, security cameras, etc, and the new one running the astronomy stuff. I will set up the old one so it can power on the new one for a session.

Unfortunately, the new computer won't boot with the external backup and archive drives connected. The standard advice, when I googled the problem, is to disable the "active" flag on the external drive(s). One external drive had the "active" flag set, so I cleared it. But it still won't boot unless I unplug the drives first.

In the BIOS, the boot options are:
1. Windows Boot Manager (which points to \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\bootmgfw.efi)
2. UEFI IP6 Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller
3. UEFI IP4 Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller

Option 1 is enabled. Options 2 and 3 are disabled.

Any suggestions for what to look at to get the computer to boot unattended?

[chris_g]

How do your extenal drives connect to the computer? Entries 2 and 3 are Ethernet controllers

[KathyNS]

How do your extenal drives connect to the computer? Entries 2 and 3 are Ethernet controllers

I figured they had to be ethernet. The external drives are all USB.

[chris_g]

So, PC won't boot with USB devices. Your bios didn't see them either.

Check to see if another PC will boot with them connected. If it does, PC issue. Either way, you could try a plugging the drives into a hub, I've had a PC refuse to boot with a USB drive but would with a hub and drive connected to that

Good luck!

[KathyNS]

All the external drives are already on a hub.

I figured out which drive was causing the problem. What is unique about it is that when I look at the volumes on each disk, it has a "System" partition called "EFI" that is Hidden. The only other disk with a System partition is the actual system disk, C:, which is internal.

So I am guessing that blowing away that partition might be the solution.