My New Nemisis

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Juno16 United States of America
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My New Nemisis

#1

Post by Juno16 »


I always have a nemesis. Usually more than one. Just the nature of my personality, I guess.

I have have (had) a bright sodium vapor streetlight in my front yard for many years. It has caused me lots of issues imaging and visual astronomy for obvious reasons. Also, it is east of my backyard scope setup to greet newly rising DSO's along with the city light pollution dome also to my east. My yard is lined with tall trees to the west and is pretty much inaccessible.
Last week I imaged the Leo Triplet and starting at 46 degrees in altitude, my camera ADU (basically overall light intensity) dropped by 50% when the Triplet reached the meridian. Even though the light is blocked by the house, the glow is very prominent above the light due to the very humid environment in my area (deep south on the Gulf of Mexico). I image broadband usually with a IDAS LPS D-1 filter that is pretty good at cutting out some of the sodium vapor lighting wavelength.
Such is life, and I have somewhat got accustomed to it.

Yesterday, the local utility replaced all of the lighting in my neighborhood (including my front yard streetlight) with LED lighting.

IMG_3293.jpg

My apologies for whining and ranting. I am looking for anyone who might have a similar situation and if they were able to alleviate it somewhat.

I had used black paint to cover three sides of the sodium vapor light and it still blasted through only slightly dimmed. I still have the black paint and considering repainting.

I have seen YouTube videos about using a laser shined on the streetlight photocell to fool it into shutting off while the laser is on. I ordering one on Amazon to give it a try. If it works, I will try to figure a way to set it up on a tripod or something to hold it steady. Then I will have to come up with a way to power it all night.

If anyone has had success with the laser or any other methods, please share your techniques and than you for listening to my ranting. Thanks!
Jim

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Re: My New Nemisis

#2

Post by SkyHiker »


Submit a complaint (utilities, town hall) and ask them to provide a shield and/or to dim it. Utilities often don't realize that not all of enjoy being blasted by light, and think they are doing all a favor by providing safety. They might listen and help out.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#3

Post by helicon »


I complained to the city planning office and they promised they would carry out an assessment of the newish streetlight that was installed across the street at the request of one of my neighbor's that complained that our stretch of street along grizzly peak was too dark.

However, as time passed I realized nothing was done, so by mid-2021 I was pretty upset about it. Fast forward to 2022 and still nothing. Anyway, I decided to move for a couple of reasons (darker skies being one of them) so I pulled it off last month. My California house is going on the market on April 21st. New digs are Bortle 3ish to 4ish and the Milky Way is visible. Good luck Jim on your endeavor.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#4

Post by UlteriorModem »


Most lighting fixtures like this have a "House side shield" available for them.

Check your local codes and zoning for 'Light tresspass' provisions. Many have requirements like "Less than .5 foot candles" at the property line.

Oh and if you can get a shot of the fixture in the daytime so I can see better what it actually is would help ;)
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Re: My New Nemisis

#5

Post by Juno16 »


@SkyHiker
Thanks Henk. I might try that, but my state of Mississippi, it seems to try to strive to be at the bottom of all lists (or at the top if it is in a “worst” category). No brag, just fact. Thanks though. If I get the energy (and other methods fail, I will have to try reason.

@helicon
Thank you Michael and really glad to hear about your new location. Sounds absolutely fantastic!

@UlteriorModem
Much appreciated Tom. I will try to get a daytime shot (pun intended) of the light fixture.
I would fall out of my chair if we had any sort of lighting ordinance here, but I will look into it. Thanks!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
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Re: My New Nemisis

#6

Post by MistrBadgr »


A friend of mine rather brazenly installed a switch on the electrical line running up the side of a light pole near his house. Nobody complained and it is still there. He is mindful about turning the light back on when he is not observing. The pole was a wooden one, which yours is not, so the line on his was on the outside, while yours is on the inside. Possibly, you could talk them into installing something like that, with some agreements about turning the light back on and with the approval of your neighbors.....Just a thought.....Would require a cooperative city and neighbors.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#7

Post by Juno16 »


MistrBadgr wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:53 pm A friend of mine rather brazenly installed a switch on the electrical line running up the side of a light pole near his house. Nobody complained and it is still there. He is mindful about turning the light back on when he is not observing. The pole was a wooden one, which yours is not, so the line on his was on the outside, while yours is on the inside. Possibly, you could talk them into installing something like that, with some agreements about turning the light back on and with the approval of your neighbors.....Just a thought.....Would require a cooperative city and neighbors.
Haha, that’s cool Bill.
Definitely something to think about!
I’m supposed to get the laser tomorrow. It would be a little bit of a challenge mouoand powering, but worth it if it works.
I really appreciate all of the suggestions and ideas! Thanks!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
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Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#8

Post by Thefatkitty »


Well Jim, if you have a slingshot and some old stock EP's (a Celestron/SW 25mm would do nicely) you could always try some target practice... :lol:

If I come up with something better I'll let you know! ;)

All the best buddy and good luck with it all,
Mark

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Re: My New Nemisis

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Post by Juno16 »


Thefatkitty wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:34 pm Well Jim, if you have a slingshot and some old stock EP's (a Celestron/SW 25mm would do nicely) you could always try some target practice... :lol:

If I come up with something better I'll let you know! ;)

All the best buddy and good luck with it all,
Hey Mark!

Good idea man!
I spoke with my neighbor across the street last night and they told me to just shoot it out. You know that would be just what I’d like to do!
I was hoping that someone might have had some luck with the laser, but no response on that yet. My laser is suppyto arrive tomorrow, so I’ll report back on that. That would be a non destructive method. Thanks man!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#10

Post by Thefatkitty »


Juno16 wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:40 pm
Hey Mark!

Good idea man!
I spoke with my neighbor across the street last night and they told me to just shoot it out. You know that would be just what I’d like to do!
I was hoping that someone might have had some luck with the laser, but no response on that yet. My laser is suppyto arrive tomorrow, so I’ll report back on that. That would be a non destructive method. Thanks man!
:lol: See, already your neighbours are on your side! I hate to say it, but I speak from experience (substitute rocks for eyepieces) from about 40 years ago; I was not the perfect teenager... :lol:

I like the idea of the laser, hopefully that works!
Mark

"The Hankmeister" Celestron 8SE, orange tube Vixen made C80, CG4 & AZ-EQ5 mounts.
Too much Towa glass/mirrors.

H/A - PST stage 2 mod with a Baader 90mm ERF on a Celestron XLT 102 (thanks Mike!)
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Re: My New Nemisis

#11

Post by Frankskywatcher »


helicon wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:00 pm I complained to the city planning office and they promised they would carry out an assessment of the newish streetlight that was installed across the street at the request of one of my neighbor's that complained that our stretch of street along grizzly peak was too dark.

However, as time passed I realized nothing was done, so by mid-2021 I was pretty upset about it. Fast forward to 2022 and still nothing. Anyway, I decided to move for a couple of reasons (darker skies being one of them) so I pulled it off last month. My California house is going on the market on April 21st. New digs are Bortle 3ish to 4ish and the Milky Way is visible. Good luck Jim on your endeavor.
Wow I admire your grit and fortitude in regards to the public Utilities, even to the point of moving to a Bortle3 area,that takes a lot !
I recently moved from the North East to Conway SC and I’m in a Bortle 5 area but at least no street lights on the two lane out here in the woods .
All The Best in Your Endeavors as well my friend!
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago ! :Astronomer1:

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Re: My New Nemisis

#12

Post by Frankskywatcher »


Now’s the time to buy all the kids in the neighborhood a Red Rider BB Gun and hope for the best !😁
Seriously thought that really sucks, I wish municipality’s would at least consider adopting The Dark Sky Society's ideas https://www.darkskysociety.org/ you can still have security and lighting but in a better way !
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago ! :Astronomer1:

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Re: My New Nemisis

#13

Post by JayTee »


Hi Jim,

The same situation occurred in front of my house when I lived in Hawaii. What I found out was that a complaint about how bright that light is cause two things to happen. Number one, they can control the intensity from the utilities office that has control over the lights and they turned my light individual light down to its lowest setting , secondly, they put a shroud around it to limit the reach, the lateral reach, of that light. This helped a great deal. See what you can get out of your local municipality. My fingers are crossed.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#14

Post by Juno16 »


Frankskywatcher wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:09 pm Now’s the time to buy all the kids in the neighborhood a Red Rider BB Gun and hope for the best !😁
Seriously thought that really sucks, I wish municipality’s would at least consider adopting The Dark Sky Society's ideas https://www.darkskysociety.org/ you can still have security and lighting but in a better way !

Thanks Frank. I agree. I really don't want to talk badly about my living area, but I have lived here for a very long time (1972). I came here (Mississippi) because my stepfather (U.S. Navy) retired here and graduated from high school, did some jr. college, and got a decent job at Dupont. The area is quite non-progressive and I will try to talk with the city about the light(s), but I really don't feel that I have much hope of success.

JayTee wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:01 am Hi Jim,

The same situation occurred in front of my house when I lived in Hawaii. What I found out was that a complaint about how bright that light is cause two things to happen. Number one, they can control the intensity from the utilities office that has control over the lights and they turned my light individual light down to its lowest setting , secondly, they put a shroud around it to limit the reach, the lateral reach, of that light. This helped a great deal. See what you can get out of your local municipality. My fingers are crossed.

Hi JayTee,

Unfortunately, Hawaii and Mississippi are two very different states. I will try the city, but first (hopefully tomorrow) I will try the laser. I am hoping for success there. If it works hand-held, I will come up with a way to use it on just imaging nights which are only a few nights a month usually. Actually, the light in front of my house might not blast the sky as bad as the sodium vapor light did. Not really sure on that and considering that the led is broad spectrum.
I hope to post good news on the laser tomorrow. Either way, I will let you know the results. Thanks JT and thanks for sharing your experiences!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#15

Post by Frankskywatcher »


Wow JayTee that’s like unheard of, now a days the utilities could care less!
The fact that they actually recognized that light trespassing is a” thing” and worked with you and your neighbors truly amazing !
Hopefully Juno16 can work something out ?
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago ! :Astronomer1:

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Re: My New Nemisis

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Post by bobharmony »


Sigh! Is there any chance of asking the town to put some sort of cut-off shield on the light? Check if there is a lighting ordinance that prohibits people from shining bright lights directly into your home or property. Who knows, there could be something there.

On the bright side(?), the bright LEDs do tend to fade and yellow a bit over time. At least the ones our town installed do.

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Re: My New Nemisis

#17

Post by Juno16 »


bobharmony wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:27 am Sigh! Is there any chance of asking the town to put some sort of cut-off shield on the light? Check if there is a lighting ordinance that prohibits people from shining bright lights directly into your home or property. Who knows, there could be something there.

On the bright side(?), the bright LEDs do tend to fade and yellow a bit over time. At least the ones our town installed do.

Bob

Thanks for the "bright side" information Bob! I see that you also have to deal with led's.

I just went over the city ordinances for my city (Long Beach, MS) and there is no ordinance that relates even vaguely to lighting. I really was surprised to see an ordinance listing for LB online actually.

Well, I will try the laser tonight and hopefully it will work both for shutting down the streetlight and I can use it in a discrete way. I don't want a bright red laser beam emanating from my porch to the streetlight. That would cause too much attention.
Pending that try, I will have to contact someone about the light just to try. Actually, last night I shut off all of my home lighting and looked around in the backyard. Since the utility replaced all of the sodium vapor lighting in my neighborhood with led's, the light glow in general seemed to move up a level. Of course, it is also broad spectrum and not a good thing.

I will try what I can and then just keep on imaging. Heck, people image from worse locations, so I have to move on eventually.

I appreciate your helpful comments Bob!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#18

Post by OzEclipse »


Jim,
If the laser works with red laser light, the sensor will probably respond to a near infrared wavelength of light as well and would be invisible to the passers by. However, you will still need the red laser. You will need to have a visible laser as a pointing laser. Get a wood block and drill two parallel holes next to each other, one for each laser. Quickly point with the visible red laser, turn it off, move the IR laser a little to the side and see if the light goes off.

Laser beams viewed from any direction other than the backscatter direction rapidly become invisible.

You will have to be able to keep an eye on it so that if someone reports it and a maintenance crew turns up, that you don't blind them with the IR laser.

Joe
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Cameras : Pentax K1, K5, K01, K10D / VIDEO CAMS : TacosBD, Lihmsec.
Cam/guider/controllers: Lacerta MGEN 3, SW Synguider, Simulation Curriculum SkyFi 3+Sky safari
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UlteriorModem
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Re: My New Nemisis

#19

Post by UlteriorModem »


bobharmony wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:27 am Sigh! Is there any chance of asking the town to put some sort of cut-off shield on the light? Check if there is a lighting ordinance that prohibits people from shining bright lights directly into your home or property. Who knows, there could be something there.

On the bright side(?), the bright LEDs do tend to fade and yellow a bit over time. At least the ones our town installed do.

Bob
Hrm one of the 'selling points' of LED lighting is it's small amount of lumen depreciation over time as compared to say Sodium or Metal Halide. Metal Halide can loose almost 80% of it's lumen output over it's life span, Sodium almost nearly as much. LED may loose some 10% of it's lumen output over its lifetime. Speaking of which LED's lifetime is much much greater than hot arc sources (Sodium). The (LEDs) tend to either last a really long time or crap out right away. It's not uncommon to see a fixture with an array of say 42 LED's with only 40 of the LEDs burning.

Typically LED's will loose a small amount of lumen output right away then kind of level off. I'd be willing to bet that what Bob is witnessing is degradation of the optics, diffusers.
Tom

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Re: My New Nemisis

#20

Post by Greenman »


We have similar problems in the UK, but we are able to request (and the guidance suggests) downwards illumination only. You can try it from the environmental angle. It is known that white light has much more impact on the circadian rhythm of nocturnal animals. Bats in particular are strongly affected in two ways, firstly they dislike white (daylight) and secondly their prey (moths etc.) tend to be attracted to them lowering their food supply. It may well be that this has little credance in your locality.

Dark skies should be a right. Good luck with getting it sorted.
Cheers,

Tony.

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Smart Scope: Dwarf II - Club and outreach work.

AP Refractor: Altair 72EDF Deluxe F6;1x & 0.8 Flatteners; Antares Versascope 60mm finder. ASIAir Pro.Li battery pack for grab & go.

Celestron AVX Mount; X-cel LX eyepieces & Barlows 2x 3x, ZWO 2” Filter holder,

Cameras: main DSO ASI533MC; DSO guide ASI120MM; Planetary ASI224MC; DSLR Canon EOS100 stock.

Filters: Astronomik IR cut; Optolong L-Pro; Optolong L-Enhance.

Binoculars: Celestron 15 x 70.

Latitude: 52.219853
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Bortle 4 site. https://maps.google.com/?q=52.21985,-1.03447

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