My New Nemisis

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Makuser United States of America
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Re: My New Nemisis

#21

Post by Makuser »


Hi Jim. I too have a Nemesis near my driveway telescope set up location:
Light Nemesis.JPG
I can control it to some degree with this adjustable height clothes rack ($10 at Aldi's a few years ago) and with rollers to place it where needed and hang a dark blanket over it:
Light Shield.JPG
Thanks Jim, and the best of wishes on dealing with the local utility company.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#22

Post by Juno16 »


OzEclipse wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:03 pm Jim,
If the laser works with red laser light, the sensor will probably respond to a near infrared wavelength of light as well and would be invisible to the passers by. However, you will still need the red laser. You will need to have a visible laser as a pointing laser. Get a wood block and drill two parallel holes next to each other, one for each laser. Quickly point with the visible red laser, turn it off, move the IR laser a little to the side and see if the light goes off.

Laser beams viewed from any direction other than the backscatter direction rapidly become invisible.

You will have to be able to keep an eye on it so that if someone reports it and a maintenance crew turns up, that you don't blind them with the IR laser.

Joe

Joe,

That is super advice and hopefully I can use it.
I tried the red laser tonight without success. It is hard to tell in the dark, but it looks like the laser is aimed at the photocell and it doesn’t shut off.
I will try again at dusk tomorrow to make sure that I am aiming the laser in the best location.
Thanks Joe for your great input! Man, I sure hope that I csn get something going here!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
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Re: My New Nemisis

#23

Post by Juno16 »


Makuser wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:16 pm Hi Jim. I too have a Nemesis near my driveway telescope set up location:
Image
I can control it to some degree with this adjustable height clothes rack ($10 at Aldi's a few years ago) and with rollers to place it where needed and hang a dark blanket over it:
Image
Thanks Jim, and the best of wishes on dealing with the local utility company.

Thanks Marshall,

I really appreciate your suggestions!

Unfortunately, my issues are complex. The moisture in the air here creates a huge “dome” around the light. The light is east of my scope and directly in the line of rising targets.
My house blocks the streetlight, but it inly helps some. The “glow” is my problem. Thanks my friend for sharing your experience and photos!
Maybe a combination of things might help me out.
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#24

Post by UlteriorModem »


It sounds like the fixture has a ridiculous amount of up light. It's not just a 'globe' is it?

Get us a picture in daylight of it please :)
Tom

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Re: My New Nemisis

#25

Post by Juno16 »


UlteriorModem wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:28 pm It sounds like the fixture has a ridiculous amount of up light. It's not just a 'globe' is it?

Get us a picture in daylight of it please :)
Hi Tom,

Just snapped a few with my phone camera.

IMG_3306.jpg
IMG_3307.jpg

Just an update. No success with the laser (so far). I might have been missing the photocell (hopefullly) and will try again tonight.

Also, we just had a front move through and the air is very dry, so not the best way to judge normal lp. I took some measurements of the sky this morning using the DarkSkyMeter app on my phone. Not sure how accurate it is, but aiming straight up, the sqm averaged in the low 20's over seven readings which is actually better than usual. That puts me in Bortle 5 near the meridian. Not bad and actually better than I have measured before. Of course, the sky was dry and in the summer, I expect much more "glow".

Also, I could super vaguely make out the swath of the milky way core to the south this morning before dawn. I have rarely seen it before and you have to dark adapt the eyes and know what you are looking at, but it was there. I snapped a photo with the phone, but of course, it went into time lapse mode, but I did see it. Really good sign. Notice the glow from the streetlight on the neighbors house below the MW.

IMG_3303.jpg

Actually, I believe that the light fixture does direct light more downward than the old sodium vapor fixture did. The source led is high up in the fixture.

I don't really know if my observations mean anything. Just what I noticed this morning. On the negative side, my back fence is lighted by the new led streetlight where the Na vapor streetlight did not.

I will try the laser again tonight. I still have the paint and to try to call the city (not much hope there), but some hopefully positive observations this morning.
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#26

Post by UlteriorModem »


Yea that's quite the glare bomb fixture. Dont think you will find a house side shield for that I am afraid.

If you were to look at a photometric plot for that fixture you would just see a round blob. No optical control whatsoever.

But Im sure they chose it because of it's 'urban appeal' and price point, light pollution be dammed!

90% of the population is none the wiser.
Tom

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Re: My New Nemisis

#27

Post by pakarinen »


Short of shooting the things - even discharging a BB-gun is illegal here - I like the laser idea. People here though would almost certainly call the police, probably claiming some maniac with a laser gun site is roaming the neighborhood. I position and shield as much as I can and pray for power outages.

(All the streetlights in my town were replaced with LEDs a few years ago except for the "historic district" which still has sodium vapor lights.)
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Re: My New Nemisis

#28

Post by Juno16 »


pakarinen wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 5:28 pm Short of shooting the things - even discharging a BB-gun is illegal here - I like the laser idea. People here though would almost certainly call the police, probably claiming some maniac with a laser gun site is roaming the neighborhood. I position and shield as much as I can and pray for power outages.

(All the streetlights in my town were replaced with LEDs a few years ago except for the "historic district" which still has sodium vapor lights.)
Shooting anything here is also illegal. I will try the laser again. Yes, a streetlight turned off with a glowing top would look odd. I have talked with some neighbors already and they would rather that the light be off too.

A power outage here is usually accompanied by a hurricane and lots of damage. On the "bright" side though, I had a whole house generator installed last year for storm power outages and I would be set up to image away!!!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#29

Post by GCoyote »


Just a though but the photocell might not be sensitive in the red part of the spectrum. A green laser might be more effective.
Also if you are not directly under it, your laser might be partially reflected from the cell's cover material. The beam should be as perpendicular to the cell's cover as you can get it.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#30

Post by Juno16 »


GCoyote wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:05 am Just a though but the photocell might not be sensitive in the red part of the spectrum. A green laser might be more effective.
Also if you are not directly under it, your laser might be partially reflected from the cell's cover material. The beam should be as perpendicular to the cell's cover as you can get it.
Thanks a lot for your suggestions Gary.

Makes good sense to me about cover reflection from a distance. I did try getting pretty close to the light, but it is so bright. I can’t tell where the laser is!

I might try the green laser, not sure. I hate to keep throwing money at it and get more and more frustrated.
Still can try paint to slow it down some or see if I can fabric some sort of shield that I can attach to it.The problem with that is that we have frequent summer storms (tropical and hurricanes) and I would have to remove the shield each time to prevent a piece of high velocity debris.
I really appreciate your suggestions! If you have any more, please share!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#31

Post by OzEclipse »


Juno16 wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:13 am
GCoyote wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:05 am Just a though but the photocell might not be sensitive in the red part of the spectrum. A green laser might be more effective.
Also if you are not directly under it, your laser might be partially reflected from the cell's cover material. The beam should be as perpendicular to the cell's cover as you can get it.
Thanks a lot for your suggestions Gary.

Makes good sense to me about cover reflection from a distance. I did try getting pretty close to the light, but it is so bright. I can’t tell where the laser is!

I might try the green laser, not sure. I hate to keep throwing money at it and get more and more frustrated.
Still can try paint to slow it down some or see if I can fabric some sort of shield that I can attach to it.The problem with that is that we have frequent summer storms (tropical and hurricanes) and I would have to remove the shield each time to prevent a piece of high velocity debris.
I really appreciate your suggestions! If you have any more, please share!
It was hard to tell from your photos but it doesn't look too high. So a shield attached to a long stick or length of PVC electrical conduit could be hung over the lamp just during your observing sessions then removed after? LED light shouldn't get too hot.
Joe
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Re: My New Nemisis

#32

Post by Juno16 »


OzEclipse wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:11 pm
Juno16 wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:13 am
GCoyote wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:05 am Just a though but the photocell might not be sensitive in the red part of the spectrum. A green laser might be more effective.
Also if you are not directly under it, your laser might be partially reflected from the cell's cover material. The beam should be as perpendicular to the cell's cover as you can get it.
Thanks a lot for your suggestions Gary.

Makes good sense to me about cover reflection from a distance. I did try getting pretty close to the light, but it is so bright. I can’t tell where the laser is!

I might try the green laser, not sure. I hate to keep throwing money at it and get more and more frustrated.
Still can try paint to slow it down some or see if I can fabric some sort of shield that I can attach to it. The problem with that is that we have frequent summer storms (tropical and hurricanes) and I would have to remove the shield each time to prevent a piece of high velocity debris.
I really appreciate your suggestions! If you have any more, please share!
It was hard to tell from your photos but it doesn't look too high. So a shield attached to a long stick or length of PVC electrical conduit could be hung over the lamp just during your observing sessions then removed after? LED light shouldn't get too hot.
Joe

That's a good idea Joe. I could fabricate a long pole (conduit) with a hinged flat piece to block just my side of the light. There would still be some "sky glow" from the remaining three sides, but I would think that it would definitely help block some of the light. Thanks Joe!
I was really hoping that the laser would just shut it off, but no luck so far. Gary's suggestion to try a green laser is still doable. Just not sure that I want to spend the money a second laser that I have absolutely no use for.
Your idea is really a good one Joe and actually will be pretty easy to put together. Thanks again!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#33

Post by UlteriorModem »


Just a side note about 'shooting' the fixture.

Back in the day when it was a single hot arc type lamp that was a 'viable' option.

However you will find that the LED fixtures have an actual array of LED's or 16, 32, 48 (common numbers) of individual LEDs. So shooting them with a pellet gun would do vary little.

A timer switch would be a great option. You kind of wind it up and the light will stay off for like 4-10 hours then come back on and stay on until the switch was wound again. But would require modifying the pole / fixture installation and I dont think they would let you do that ;)
Tom

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Re: My New Nemisis

#34

Post by OzEclipse »


Juno16 wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:02 pm That's a good idea Joe. I could fabricate a long pole (conduit) with a hinged flat piece to block just my side of the light. There would still be some "sky glow" from the remaining three sides, but I would think that it would definitely help block some of the light. Thanks Joe!
I was really hoping that the laser would just shut it off, but no luck so far. Gary's suggestion to try a green laser is still doable. Just not sure that I want to spend the money a second laser that I have absolutely no use for.
Your idea is really a good one Joe and actually will be pretty easy to put together. Thanks again!
A green laser is very visible. Also check your local laws on the use of lasers.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#35

Post by Juno16 »


UlteriorModem wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:58 pm Just a side note about 'shooting' the fixture.

Back in the day when it was a single hot arc type lamp that was a 'viable' option.

However you will find that the LED fixtures have an actual array of LED's or 16, 32, 48 (common numbers) of individual LEDs. So shooting them with a pellet gun would do vary little.

A timer switch would be a great option. You kind of wind it up and the light will stay off for like 4-10 hours then come back on and stay on until the switch was wound again. But would require modifying the pole / fixture installation and I dont think they would let you do that ;)

You are correct Tom. It is an array.

Absolutely, the timer would be an outstanding option.

Thanks for the help!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#36

Post by pakarinen »


UlteriorModem wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:58 pm A timer switch would be a great option. You kind of wind it up and the light will stay off for like 4-10 hours then come back on and stay on until the switch was wound again. But would require modifying the pole / fixture installation and I dont think they would let you do that ;)
I suggested that to an AirBNB owner who has a beautiful, large yard under B4 skies. Nasty thing lit up the whole yard and then some up. Don't know if she ever responded since I haven't rented the place for several years.

But if leaving an LED street light on costs pennies compared to installing a switch or timer, what's the financial incentive for people / towns to add cutoff switches?
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Re: My New Nemisis

#37

Post by JayTee »


Juno16 wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:18 pm
UlteriorModem wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:58 pm Just a side note about 'shooting' the fixture.

Back in the day when it was a single hot arc type lamp that was a 'viable' option.

However you will find that the LED fixtures have an actual array of LED's or 16, 32, 48 (common numbers) of individual LEDs. So shooting them with a pellet gun would do vary little.

A timer switch would be a great option. You kind of wind it up and the light will stay off for like 4-10 hours then come back on and stay on until the switch was wound again. But would require modifying the pole / fixture installation and I dont think they would let you do that ;)

You are correct Tom. It is an array.

Absolutely, the timer would be an outstanding option.

Thanks for the help!
I have seen access covers at the base most of the municipal street lamp poles that have been in conflict with my observing. Getting into the wiring inside this access panel it's fairly easy. There are several things you could do from simply just cutting wire and not allowing power to get the light, all the way to installing a switch you can control. Open the access panel, flip It off, when done flip it back on, close the access panel.

Also, don't forget it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. And besides if nobody sees you do it then YOU didn't do it.

Just my thoughts. And how I dealt with street lights in the past.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#38

Post by Juno16 »


JayTee wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:24 am
I have seen access covers at the base of most of the municipal street lamp poles that I have been in conflict with my observing. Getting into the wiring inside this access panel it's fairly easy. There are several things you could do from simply just cutting wire and not allowing power to get the light, all the way to installing a switch you can control. Open the access panel, flip It off, when done flip it back on, close the access panel.

Also, don't forget it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. And besides if nobody sees you do it then YOU didn't do it.

Just my thoughts. And how I dealt with street lights in the past.

JT, you are wild!

Your suggestion (and past practice) is really the best solution. Not too sure that I want to be that bold in the middle of a subdivision though. There are neighbors all around and cars driving by often. I'm sure that I would be seen and even if my neighbors told me that they didn't care, I really can't be sure that if confronted, they would not say something.

Your response is excellent though and very much appreciated! Very entertaining too!
Jim

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Re: My New Nemisis

#39

Post by Juno16 »


OzEclipse wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:11 pm

It was hard to tell from your photos but it doesn't look too high. So a shield attached to a long stick or length of PVC electrical conduit could be hung over the lamp just during your observing sessions then removed after? LED light shouldn't get too hot.
Joe


Joe, YOU ROCK!!!

I fabricated a black bag covered piece of cardboard (for low weight). I had an extendable paint roller and added two more extensions. The overall height is about 20 feet and the rig is pretty wobbly, but it did a magnificent job at blocking the direct blast of light from the streetlight.

This is my front yard without the shield.

IMG_3327.jpg

This is my front yard with the shield in place.

IMG_3324.jpg

This is what the streetlight and shield look like from behind.

IMG_3316.jpg

As you can see, the neighborhood is pretty light lively. I think that I get more lp from my neighbors barn door light above their garage. The streetlight in my front yard has been effectively neutralized.

Thanks everyone for the great ideas and input! Thank you Joe!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: My New Nemisis

#40

Post by UlteriorModem »


Just be very aware of any over head wires when wielding such a contraption ;)
Tom

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