PHD2 Guiding Tips

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JayTee United States of America
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PHD2 Guiding Tips

#1

Post by JayTee »


For many, PHD2 isn't really as easy as "Push Here Dummy" as the name implies.

There are several practices/actions that should be considered/addressed when you begin your PHD2 journey. Always reference this "Best Practices" article when you are first starting out with using PHD2
https://openphdguiding.org/PHD2_BestPractices.pdf

The following gives several important steps/tweaks/advice that will certainly help. Now if you are already a user and have not got things completely under control (and who amongst us can claim that), these tips by Bruce Waddington one of the developers will certainly help.
  • 1. Increase the guide speed in the mount to 0.9x sidereal. This can help to mitigate the Dec backlash problem in the mount and will let you use shorter exposure times.
  • 2. Try binning the guide camera at 2x2. To do this, create a new profile with 2x2 binning and the new guide speed you set in step 1.
  • 3. Disable star-mass detection for now – that’s on the Guiding tab of the Advanced Dialog
  • 4. When it’s time to do a calibration, *always* move the mount north as the last step before starting the calibration. You can do that with a slew or by using the hand-controller. Just be sure you can see the stars moving on the display.
  • 5. Try to use guide cam exposures of 1-2 seconds with this setup. Longer exposures give the mount too much time to wander off track, which can affect both guiding and calibration.
  • 6. Re-run the Guiding Assistant with the new set-up and accept its recommendations. Re-run the backlash test and look at the graph to see how the mount behaved.- you can do this even if something went wrong with the test. For that matter, you can use the ‘Review Previous’ button in the GA to see what happened in earlier tests.
  • 7. Don’t monkey around with the guide parameter settings, that’s just making things worse. You need to develop a clear view of what your mount is capable of doing before trying to figure out how best to work around its problems. The Guiding Assistant runs will do that for you – you should expect a lot of uncorrected periodic error in RA and a lot of Dec backlash. If the Dec backlash is too large for PHD2 to handle with Dec backlash compensation, you can guide in only one Dec direction. There are instructions in the Help guide for that and it can work very well for you – lots of people do it.

Hope this info helps make your autoguiding just a little (or maybe even a lot) better.

Cheers,
JT :observer:
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#2

Post by Juno16 »


Thanks a lot JT!

Great suggestions. I am going to fire up the laptop right now and look at a few things. I could really use more “control”.

Very much appreciated!

Thanks,
Jim
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#3

Post by yobbo89 »


I have one tip that may or may not help people guiding with an asi zwo camera, give ascom driver a go instead of the native zwo driver , and use 8 bit instead of 16 bit.

this will help avoid those driver crashes or long hangs
scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"truss tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob,meade 12'' f10 lx200 sct
cameras : asi 1600mm-c/asi1600mm-c,asi120mc,prostar lp guidecam, nikkon d60, sony a7,asi 290 mm
mounts : eq6 pro/eq8/mesu 200 v2
filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, chroma 3nm ha,sii,oiii,nii,rgb,lowglow,uv/ir,Thousand Oaks Solar Filter,1.25'' #47 violet,pro planet 742 ir,pro planet 807 ir,pro planet 642 bp ir.
extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel,tele vue 2x barlow .

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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#4

Post by XCalRocketMan »


yobbo89 wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:07 pm I have one tip that may or may not help people guiding with an asi zwo camera, give ascom driver a go instead of the native zwo driver , and use 8 bit instead of 16 bit.

this will help avoid those driver crashes or long hangs
And keep in mind that the older ASI cameras (ASI120mm, mc) do not work well with hubs or extended USB cables. ASCOM is a better choice. I've since replaced my ASI120mc with a QHY5L-II so that I can go back to using the built-in hub in my ASI1600mm camera.
Scopes Celestron EdgeHD-11; William Optics GT102; William Optics ZS61; Criterion Dynamax-8 SCT
Mounts AP1100GTO mount w/APCCpro; iOptron iEQ30 Pro; Criterion Dynamax-8 SCT
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Guiding Celestron OAG w/ASI174mm mini; WO 50mm; Orion ST80
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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#5

Post by UlteriorModem »


Good pointers!

Only thing I have to add is to make sure the mount is pretty well polar aligned before you start any of this.

Otherwise you will end up chasing your tail :D
Tom

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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#6

Post by yobbo89 »


UlteriorModem wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:18 am Good pointers!

Only thing I have to add is to make sure the mount is pretty well polar aligned before you start any of this.

Otherwise you will end up chasing your tail :D
pulling your hair out aswell! maybe some cursing!
scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"truss tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob,meade 12'' f10 lx200 sct
cameras : asi 1600mm-c/asi1600mm-c,asi120mc,prostar lp guidecam, nikkon d60, sony a7,asi 290 mm
mounts : eq6 pro/eq8/mesu 200 v2
filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, chroma 3nm ha,sii,oiii,nii,rgb,lowglow,uv/ir,Thousand Oaks Solar Filter,1.25'' #47 violet,pro planet 742 ir,pro planet 807 ir,pro planet 642 bp ir.
extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel,tele vue 2x barlow .

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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#7

Post by fatboy1271 »


XCalRocketMan wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:13 am
yobbo89 wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:07 pm I have one tip that may or may not help people guiding with an asi zwo camera, give ascom driver a go instead of the native zwo driver , and use 8 bit instead of 16 bit.

this will help avoid those driver crashes or long hangs
And keep in mind that the older ASI cameras (ASI120mm, mc) do not work well with hubs or extended USB cables. ASCOM is a better choice. I've since replaced my ASI120mc with a QHY5L-II so that I can go back to using the built-in hub in my ASI1600mm camera.
Well this explains a lot!!! I had had my Canon 70D plugged directly into my laptop and my ASI120MC plugged into the USB hub. I eventually switched it because I felt like the ASI was suffering... I guess being an IT professional has some side benefits too :)
OTAs: Explore Scientific ED80 Essential Edition / The Little Guy (Celestron 90SLT)
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Gear: Canon 70D / Hutech LPS-D1-48 / ES 2" Field Flattener / QHY PoleMaster / Celestron GPS / ZWO ASI120MC / Orion 50mm Guide Scope / ZWO EAF
Software: CPWI / PHD2 / N.I.N.A / Stellarium/StellariumScope/Remote Control / PI / RegiStax 6 / AutoStakkert!2 / PIPP | Retired? BackyardEOS Premium
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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#8

Post by seigell »


Near the top of the list of "PHD2 Tips" should be:
Make sure that you are using the Current Release of PHD2 - downloaded from https://openphdguiding.org

Corollary:
If you are going to use ASCOM Drivers, make sure that you've downloaded the Latest ASCOM and the Latest ASCOM Drivers from your Camera Provider.
ES AR152 / ES 80ED Apo / Orion 8in F/3.9 / C9.25-SCT / C6-SCT / C10-NGT / AT6RC / ST-80 / AstroView 90 / Meade 6000 APO 115mm
CGEM (w HyperTune and ADM bling) / 2x CG5-AGT / Forest of Tripod legs / Star Adventurer / Orion EQ-G
550D (Modded-G.Honis) / 60D / 400D / NexImage / NexGuide / Mini 50 SSAG / ST-8300C / ASI120MM-S / ASI1600MM-Cool
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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#9

Post by seigell »


A point that the guys at OpenPHDGuiding.org continuously stress:
  • When in doubt, Create a NEW "Equipment Profile" and fill it out accurately.
    Then run the Guiding Assistant, and follow its suggested settings.
ES AR152 / ES 80ED Apo / Orion 8in F/3.9 / C9.25-SCT / C6-SCT / C10-NGT / AT6RC / ST-80 / AstroView 90 / Meade 6000 APO 115mm
CGEM (w HyperTune and ADM bling) / 2x CG5-AGT / Forest of Tripod legs / Star Adventurer / Orion EQ-G
550D (Modded-G.Honis) / 60D / 400D / NexImage / NexGuide / Mini 50 SSAG / ST-8300C / ASI120MM-S / ASI1600MM-Cool
Dark Skies in SW CO when I can get there, and badly light polluted backyard when I can't... (Currently Self-Exiled to Muggy Central Florida...)
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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#10

Post by Brian »


I recently discovered that the fourth suggestion on that list improves calibration and guiding a lot on an AVX mount. Dec calibration is terrible or fails otherwise.
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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#11

Post by Mike_Lewis »


I attended a lecture on PHD2 Best Practices this weekend. The speakers were none other than Andy Galasso and Bruce Waddington, so I take the information imparted as gospel. Most of what they explained was information I have been long been aware of, but one thing surprised me; PHD2 works best with imperfect polar alignment. They suggest that PA should be off by 5 to 10 arc minutes. The reasoning is that such misalignment keeps the guiding pulses coming and the error becomes "predictable" to the software and keeps the drive gears engaged resulting in more stable guiding.

I immediately thought about all of the hours I've spent in my life (before I bought PoleMaster) working at getting my PA error under 1 arc minute, my old standard. Completely unnecessary. I do wonder if that error is appropriate if guiding a scope at f/10 or so, but didn't find a chance to ask.
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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#12

Post by JayTee »


I think it's very cool you got to listen to a lecture by Andy and Bruce. @Mike_Lewis

It does sound weird doesn't it but when you inject a small amount of error in your PA the dec only has to, theoretically, operate in just one direction which should prevent dec reversals from occurring. If you can decrease/eliminate dec reversals your guiding gets much better because most inexpensive mounts suffer significantly from dec backlash and this typically increases your RMS error.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#13

Post by JayTee »


Just read this today on the Open PHD Guiding Google group from the creators of PHD2 - Do not run PHD2 in Administrator mode as it tends to "mess with" the ASCOM drivers. I did not know this.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#14

Post by Larry 1969 »


Thanks JT!
I'm a bit late to the party on this but are those recommended settings to be applied in PHD2 or EQmod or both?

Thanks!

Larry
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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#15

Post by JayTee »


Hi Larry,

Since I don't use EQMod I can't speak for it. At first, try it with just making those adjustments within PHD2.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#16

Post by turonrambar »


Hello to to all<

Just what needed, some good data on Guiding. This is the first time I
used the Auto Guider on a LX850 12" f/8. It seems that I was running the
wrong firmware for the mount, and the guider would not initialize.
And the Guider menu was absent from the handbox.

I finally found the correct firmware, which is 1.1i that Meade updated
because of the loss of GPS acquisition. The guider is working now and
it's a complete mystery right now. Give me a couple good session and
iron out my ignorance of guider scopes.

Clear Skies
kip

:observer:
Meade OTA f/8 12” on a CEM120 iOptron Mount,
G10 One Shot CMOS Color Camera, QHY 2” Filter Wheel, QHY OAG, SVBony SV305 guide camera
Canon T3i 60D Prime Focus and Eyepiece Projection,
ASCOM 6.5 SP1, Windows 10 Professional
LX850 Mount, ETX125, LX200 f/10 8” GPS, Meade 6” f/4 Newton Reflector on an Equatorial Mount
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Re: PHD2 Guiding Tips

#17

Post by chartram »


Mike_Lewis wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:16 pm I attended a lecture on PHD2 Best Practices this weekend. The speakers were none other than Andy Galasso and Bruce Waddington, so I take the information imparted as gospel. Most of what they explained was information I have been long been aware of, but one thing surprised me; PHD2 works best with imperfect polar alignment. They suggest that PA should be off by 5 to 10 arc minutes. The reasoning is that such misalignment keeps the guiding pulses coming and the error becomes "predictable" to the software and keeps the drive gears engaged resulting in more stable guiding.

I immediately thought about all of the hours I've spent in my life (before I bought PoleMaster) working at getting my PA error under 1 arc minute, my old standard. Completely unnecessary. I do wonder if that error is appropriate if guiding a scope at f/10 or so, but didn't find a chance to ask.
I got this same tip from a buddy who closely follows Andy & Bruce. But I’ve been too chicken to try it 🤣 Last time I accidentally knocked the PA off, guiding was terrible. But the concept makes sense… if there is always a guide pulse in the same direction, backlash should never be a factor once everything is settled.
Mike Chartrand
Scopes: WO Star 71 Gen-II (F/4.9), Astro-Tech AT115EDT (F/7), Celestron 8" Edge HD (F/10)
Cameras: ZWO ASI1600MM w/ Baader 1.25" LRGB & Narrowband Filters, ZWO ASI174MM mini, Starlight Xpress Lodestar X2
Mount: Skywatcher NEQ6 Pro
Guiding: Orion ST-80 (f/5) w/ADM MiniMax (side-by-side), ZWO OAG
Software: PHD2, Sequence Generator Pro, PixInsight
Dark Site Transportation System: 2020 Telluride SX
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