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AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:46 pm
by Jockinireland
So another 2 weeks have passed which means that we have another AP Processing challenge. And we are getting some fantastic data gifted to us just now. This week is another beauty!

This time we have Greg, @AstroBee 's lovely lagoon and Triffid widefield. His original post is here viewtopic.php?f=66&t=18746 so you can see what we have. Thanks Greg :text-thankyouyellow:

Now, Greg has given us a full set of HA, Lum, R, G and B so you can choose which of the various combinations work best. For anyone not yet comfortable combining channels keep reading because you are looked after too!

For anyone wanting to do PCC I got it to solve with FL 424mm and Pixel size of 3.8 micron.

You will find the files here https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

There are Files with each of Fits, 16b Tiff and 32b tiff - I've not done xisf this time but if anyone wants that just PM me.

Now, for anyone not sure about combining channels there is a Combined_RGB folder that has a single RGB file which I combined in PI. Thats going to look just like a OSC/DSLR image so have fun. that folder also has appropriately cropped Ha and Lum files so if you want to try combiming one or both of those with the RGB thats the files to use - they are all registered. If you are not sure how to do that, just ask on here and someone will give you pointers.

So, you know the drill;

Download what files you want and process in your software(s) of choice then post in this thread. The purpose of the APP Challenge is to share techniques so we can all learn and grow in our abilities so please describe your process steps and any special tricks you used to get your result. If you have been finding something difficult to do with this data - tell us and hopefully someone will be able to help.

Please consider submitting some data of your own for future challenges. Just send me PM and I'll take it from there.

have fun

David.

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:52 pm
by Jockinireland
First off, @AstroBee , Greg, this data was a joy to process - thanks so much for sharing.

For full disclosure this is the first time I have worked on HaLRGB data so I didn't really know what I was doing and it may well be that I've done it entirely the wrong way.

When I looked at it first I decided on 2 goals - 1, to bring out as much structure as I could in the 2 nebs and 2, to try to minimise the star field to allow the background faint nebulosity to show.

So here's what I did;

Dynamic drop on all 5 files.

Channel combine to RGB- I used a Pixelmath combine of 70%Ha and 30% lum as the red - this was to start reducing the stars.

RGB -
Light HT to stretch
Starnet to remove stars and make starmask
CT for contarst and sat on starless
SCNR and CT for sat on stars
Recombined using Chanel combine
Convolution to blur
CT to increase sat


Then on the the Ha_Lum (70/30) ;
Decon
EZdenoise
HT, Ct
LHE to improve contrast

Then LRGB to combine the 70/30 lum with the blurred RGB
some minor tweaks in CT to improve balance

I then saved as a 16b tiff and went in to Photoshop where I did a selective high pass routine to enhance the structure in the nebs then saved as final

All that led to this
Astrobee_DLM_final.jpg
Now I have to say I am pretty pleased with it, but really the data is what makes it. I think I achieved my 2 goals fairly well and it was a great learning experience for me.

I have put the full res image into a non-public location on Astrobin because this data really deserves to be looked at in its full glory and zoomed in - especially the lagoon. (I hope that's OK Greg - its watermarked as your copyright but if you want me to take it down just say so)

Youll find it here
Image

Anyway - I look forward to seeing what others can do with this. For me its just made me realise how far I still have to go with image acquisition. :cry:

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:22 pm
by AstroBee
David,

That is amazing! You have made my data look better than I've ever been able to make it look. I really need to just take the plunge and get PixInsight. Having never used it, your description of what you did is pretty much like reading ancient Aramaic but the results are just darn impressive. I actually have an Astrobin account under my real name if you don't mind changing the copyright info and sharing it publicly with the appropriate description that I acquired the data and you did the processing, that would be great. Here's my AstroBin. https://www.astrobin.com/users/AlnitakProductions/

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:18 pm
by Jockinireland
AstroBee wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:22 pm David,

That is amazing! You have made my data look better than I've ever been able to make it look. I really need to just take the plunge and get PixInsight. Having never used it, your description of what you did is pretty much like reading ancient Aramaic but the results are just darn impressive. I actually have an Astrobin account under my real name if you don't mind changing the copyright info and sharing it publicly with the appropriate description that I acquired the data and you did the processing, that would be great. Here's my AstroBin. https://www.astrobin.com/users/AlnitakProductions/
Thanks Greg, thats very kind of you to say so. But really its the data that should get the credit. I love APP but PI is really a different animal.

Why dont I just give you the full final tiff and you put it up on your own Astrobin, you can say I processed it if you like but I dont really worry about stuff like that.

I'm busy right now but I'll stick in in a one-drive later and PM you a link

take care

david

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:51 pm
by Graeme1858
Jockinireland wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:52 pm So here's what I did;

That's a strong saturation David. It's very striking.

How did you get on with the star removal? I've seen that done but it's the next lesson down the road for me! I have found that Star Masks are really easy in PixInsight for reducing star bloat but this didn't seem to be needed with this data. The star fields in the image are amazing!

So here's mine, I just used the RGB files.

StarAlignment - on Red
AutomaticBackgroundExtractor
SCNR - 70% Green
ColourCalibration
TGVDenoise
ScreenTransferFunction
HistogramTransformation
CurvesTransformation - S Curve
CurvesTransformation - RGB, Hue, Saturation
DynamicCrop

AP Challenge No 20 - Greg - M8-M20.jpg

Now I look at the .jpg, perhaps a bit more saturation might have been in order!

Regards

Graeme

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:02 pm
by Graeme1858
Graeme1858 wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:51 pm Now I look at the .jpg, perhaps a bit more saturation might have been in order!

Maybe like this:

AP Challenge No 20 - Greg - M8-M20-02.jpg

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:45 pm
by AstroBee
I like both Graeme but the second version with a bit more saturation is my favorite of your two.

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:06 pm
by AstroBee
Jockinireland wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:18 pm
Thanks Greg, thats very kind of you to say so. But really its the data that should get the credit. I love APP but PI is really a different animal.
Why dont I just give you the full final tiff and you put it up on your own Astrobin, you can say I processed it if you like but I dont really worry about stuff like that.
I'm busy right now but I'll stick in in a one-drive later and PM you a link
take care
david
Done. I would never share a collaborative piece of work like this without giving credit to those involved.
https://astrob.in/xtrc24/0/

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:16 am
by Jockinireland
Hi @Graeme1858 , They are both good processes - my preference would be the second more saturated.

You are doing really great in your move to PI - its not as dfficult as some would have you believe, is it?

You should try running a LocalhistogramEqualisation (LHE) and maybe a unsharp mask - both with either a range mask or a Lum mask appled on that final image. I think youd get more detail in the nebs if you try that.

On star removal, I use the starnet process in PI and it generally works well. But the reduced stars in this are really a result of combining the Ha and Lum in the 70/30 ration and applying that as Lum to a blurred High-sat RGB.

good Luck

David.

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:50 pm
by Graeme1858
Jockinireland wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:16 am You should try running a LocalhistogramEqualisation (LHE) and maybe a unsharp mask - both with either a range mask or a Lum mask appled on that final image. I think youd get more detail in the nebs if you try that.

Cheers, I'll try those.

I did notice that the clarity of detail in your M8 dust clouds (Click to enlarge, right click and open in a new tab, zoom in. (Thanks Steve!)) is very much better than I achieved.

When you're done, do you save as a jpg or a png for the forum?

Regards

Graeme

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:37 pm
by Jockinireland
Graeme1858 wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:50 pm
Jockinireland wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:16 am You should try running a LocalhistogramEqualisation (LHE) and maybe a unsharp mask - both with either a range mask or a Lum mask appled on that final image. I think youd get more detail in the nebs if you try that.

Cheers, I'll try those.

I did notice that the clarity of detail in your M8 dust clouds (Click to enlarge, right click and open in a new tab, zoom in. (Thanks Steve!)) is very much better than I achieved.

When you're done, do you save as a jpg or a png for the forum?

Regards

Graeme
I save as a jpeg for the attached in line on the forum - usually under 2mb and on Astrobin I leave it as full res png. That one's about 70mb I think.
The resolution in the clouds comes from doing LHE on the lum layer before applying and then the selective high pass in PS increases the local contrast within the clouds just a shade more and brings out that glow around the edge of the shapes. But you could probably get close by doing those on the RGB. The unsharp mask, If you can mask it to only the areas of interest will do similar to the PS selective high pass.

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:33 pm
by UkDave
Loveley data thanks very much ,processed in Startools 1.8 all channels used , log below.
-----------------------------------------------------------


StarTools 1.8.503alpha
Sun Jun 27 20:31:19 2021
-----------------------------------------------------------
Loading luminance channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [C:\Users\DAVID\Downloads\M8-M20-Lum_crop.fits].
Loading red channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [C:\Users\DAVID\Downloads\M8-M20-RGB_crop.fits].
Loading green channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [C:\Users\DAVID\Downloads\M8-M20-RGB_crop.fits].
Loading blue channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [C:\Users\DAVID\Downloads\M8-M20-RGB_crop.fits].
Loading NB accent data
File loaded in LRGB module [C:\Users\DAVID\Downloads\M8-M20-Ha_crop.fits].
--- Compose
Parameter [Luminance, Color] set to [L + Synthetic L From RGB, RGB]
Parameter [Color Ch. Interpolation] set to [On]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [Ha/S-II from NB filter]
Parameter [Lum Total Exposure] set to [0h20m (20m) (1200s)]
Parameter [Blue Total Exposure] set to [2h00m (120m) (7200s)]
Parameter [Green Total Exposure] set to [2h00m (120m) (7200s)]
Parameter [Red Total Exposure] set to [2h00m (120m) (7200s)]
Image size is 4608 x 3464
Type of Data: Linear, was not Bayered, or was Bayered + white balanced
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [Off]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [15 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [0 pixels]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [0 pixels]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [4608 pixels (-0)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [3464 pixels (-0)]
Parameter [Detector Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter set to [50 %] --- Bin Parameter [Scale] set to [scale 50.00% / +2.00 bits / +1.00x SNR improvement] Image size is 2304 x 1732 --- Wipe Parameter [Synthetic Dark/Bias] set to [Off] Parameter [Gradient Edge Behavior] set to [Absorb 50%] Parameter [Synthetic Flats] set to [Off] Parameter [Sampling Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels] Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [4 pixels] Parameter [Gradient Falloff] set to [0 %] Parameter [Synth. Bias Edge Area] set to [100 %] Parameter [Gradient Aggressiveness] set to [75 %] Parameter [Correlation Filtering] set to [Off] Redoing stretch of linear data --- Auto Develop Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [3.4 pixels] Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [15 %] Parameter [RoI X1] set to [1443 pixels] Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [516 pixels] Parameter [RoI X2] set to [1904 pixels (-400)] Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [1271 pixels (-461)] Parameter [Detector Gamma] set to [1.00] Parameter [Shadow Linearity] set to [50 %] --- HDR Parameter [Small Detail Precision] set to [Max] Parameter [Channels] set to [Brightness Only] Parameter [Algorithm] set to [Reveal All] Parameter [Dark/Bright Response] set to [1.00] Parameter [Detail Size Range] set to [1050 pixels] Parameter [Strength] set to [1.3] --- Wavelet Sharpen Parameter [Structure Size] set to [Large] Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded) --- Shrink Parameter [Mode] set to [Tighten] Parameter [Halo Extend] set to [1 pixels] Parameter [Iterations] set to [10]o [30.0 pixels] Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded) --- Shrink Parameter [Mode] set to [Tighten] Parameter [Halo Extend] set to [1 pixels] Parameter [Iterations] set to [10] Parameter [Regularization] set to [0.85] Parameter [Color Taming] set to [2 pixels] Parameter [De-ringing] set to [Off] Parameter [Un-glow Strength] set to [Off] Parameter [Un-glow Kernel] set to [Off] --- Super Structure Parameter [Detail Preservation] set to [Linear Brightness Mask] Parameter [Compositing Algorithm] set to [Screen] Parameter [Brightness, Color] set to [Only Color] Parameter [Brightness Retention] set to [Off] Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels] Parameter [Airy Disk Radius] set to [50 %] Parameter [Gamma] set to [0.42] Parameter [Detail Preservation Radius] set to [20.0 pixels] Parameter [Saturation] set to [200 %] Parameter [Strength] set to [100 %] --- Unified De-Noise Parameter [Grain Size] set to [5.0 pixels] Parameter [Walking Noise Size] set to [1.0 pixels] Parameter [Walking Noise Angle] set to [0] --- Unified De-Noise Parameter [Scale 1] set to [99 %] Parameter [Scale 2] set to [95 %] Parameter [Scale 3] set to [95 %] Parameter [Scale 4] set to [95 %] Parameter [Scale 5] set to [50 %] Parameter [Equalized Grain] set to [0 %] Parameter [Scale Correlation] set to [50 %] Parameter [Color Detail Loss] set to [50 %] Parameter [Brightness Detail Loss] set to [50 %] Parameter [Grain Dispersion] set to [1.3 pixels] File saved [C:\Users\DAVID\Downloads\M8-M20-RGB_.jpg].

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:04 am
by STEVE333
Several nice processing examples already. Here is my attempt using PixInsight. I only used the Ha and RGB files.

I had a busy day yesterday and I'm still recovering today, so, I'll post the processing approach later.
HaLRGB.jpg
Steve

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:00 am
by startoolsastro
This is such excellent, gloriously deep data (thank you for sharing @AstroBee , and mentioning it @UkDave!), I couldn't resist putting it through the ST 1.8 alpha, to sanity check the defaults and - in particular - test the new NBAccent module / triple stream processing (which was made for precisely these sorts of datasets). This is the entire workflow;

--- Compose
Loaded luminance as luminance, RGB for chrominance and Ha as narrowband accents (ST now processes three data streams in parallel in a single workflow).
Parameter [Lum Total Exposure] set to [0h10m (10m) (600s)]
Parameter [Blue Total Exposure] set to [1h00m (60m) (3600s)]
Parameter [Green Total Exposure] set to [1h00m (60m) (3600s)]
Parameter [Red Total Exposure] set to [1h00m (60m) (3600s)]
--- Auto Develop
Defaults.
To see what we got.
--- Bin
Parameter [Scale] set to [scale 50.00% / +2.00 bits / +1.00x SNR improvement]
--- Wipe
(the only real issue with this dataset is the flats calibration)
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [6 pixels]
Vignetting preset.
--- Auto Develop
Defaults.
--- HDR
Defaults.
Parameter [Strength] set to [1.2]
--- Spatially Variant PSF Deconvolution
Parameter [Sampled Area] set to [11x11]
Set some star samples (less than 10 used).
--- Color
Legacy preset.
Parameter [Cap Green] set to [100 %]
--- Visual Spectrum Narrowband Accent Compositing
Defaults (maps the Ha to a synthetic Balmer series, giving visual spectrum coloring to the Ha)
--- Shrink
Defaults.
--- Super Structure
Defaults.

No noise reduction needed, such is the quality of the signal. So much to see. Just fabulous!
If anyone is interested in the closed alpha, do let me know (though hopefully the next alpha is mature enough to release publicly).

Clear skies!

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:33 am
by UkDave
Excellent Ivo @startoolsastro great data to practice on thanks to @AstroBee I like yours better than mine lols 😂, loving 1.8 might not got my head around decon yet but it certainly resolves an image , and the nbaccent module makes combining nb data so easy and is so effective .

Regards Dave

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:41 am
by AstroBee
So many different variations in everyone's processing but they are all amazing. I'm glad the data was acceptable.

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:48 am
by Jockinireland
Thanks for joining our processing Challenge Ivo @startoolsastro I'm sure that seeing your detailed workflow will be really useful for our Startools user - and thats what this is about after all.

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:44 am
by STEVE333
Seeing Ivo's beautiful image where he brought out so much of the background prompted me to give it another try.

This time I only used the Lum + RGB images.

Blend_EZ.jpg
I wasn't able to get any benefit from the Ha data because of my inexperience with this type of processing. I used PixInsight for the processing. Unfortunately I don't remember all the steps.

Steve

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:46 am
by AstroBee
Wow Steve, you really brought out the blues, especially around the Trifid. Nice.

Re: AP Processing Challenge 20 - Astrobee M8 & M20

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:42 pm
by carastro
Bit late to the party, but here is my process. LRHaGB
Very nice data Jock.
Processed in Photoshop with Registar for registering.

Mostly levels and curves, but a selective layered approach to the core of M8 so as not to burn it out.
Use of Match colour to increase both the star colour and general colour.
Small amount of High Pass Filter to the dark bits of nebulae again done selectively.

Ha added to Red channel and combined as lighten.
Finally luminance channel added as luminosity and overall colour balance.

Image