The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

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Shorty Barlow
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The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#1

Post by Shorty Barlow »


I recounted a long time ago, in a forum far, far away, that in January 2018 I bought a Sky-Watcher ST102 StarTravel as an inexpensive rich field grab'n'go scope.

Image

Although I originally intended to use it on a Vixen Porta II/SXG Hal-130 tripod combination I discovered it would easily balance well on my Sky-Watcher AZ5. This made it even more of a grab'n'go scope for me. I never used it as stock and replaced its original focuser with a dual speed heavy duty TS Optics (GSO) rotating Crayford-rail focusing unit virtually the same as on my modified ST80's.

Image

This was fine and worked really well after I added twin finder shoes, a Baader adapter, and sorted out all of the back or in-focusing problems and suitable accessories etc.

Image

However, early last year I started experimenting with actually rotating the focuser. I'm physically disabled so this function can make life a lot easier for me, especially with a heavy 2” diagonal and eyepiece. After a while I noticed that the focuser was often less smooth and sometimes distinctly rough to turn. It was almost as if something internally was 'grinding' and causing friction. Even Guan Sheng Optical are surprisingly candid about the rotation capabilities of their focusers.

4. 360-degree Rotation

These focusers are rotatable, i.e., you can turn the entire focuser body/diagonal/eyepiece combination into a better observing position by loosening or tightening a large silver thumbscrew on the top of the focuser. However, please note that this is a relatively weak feature of this otherwise excellent product. We inspect every single focuser and tweak/lube it as much as we can, but the rotation is often not smooth over the entire 360-degrees and may bind in a few spots, requiring additional effort to rotate it. This is probably a minor annoyance since most people will not use this feature very often.

~ Manufacturer's description.

The trouble is I'm not 'most people' and after a while I had found this feature virtually indispensable. I had actually noticed the 'minor annoyance' of the uneven rotation early in use but initially dismissed it. However the 'grinding' happened with the focuser knob itself and I could even feel it through the fine focus knob. It seemed related to the rotation angle but was oddly sometimes just as smooth as it always was. I believe that it was related to the way the actual mechanism works. The rotating part of the focuser seemed to sag somewhat when the rotation knob is loosened and I think at certain angles the clutch plate didn’t always connect back properly when re-tightened. In retrospect I now believe this to be an inherent design flaw. It's intriguing, if slightly perplexing, that GSO are quite open about it being a weakness.

Image

Fortunately Sky-Watcher focusers are now equipped with finder shoe holes, which is a bit of a deal breaker for me. So I removed the TS Optics focuser and replaced it with the dual speed Sky-Watcher Crayford equivalent. I’m not totally positive but there is a good chance these are manufactured by Long Perng. They seem to have an excellent reputation.

Image

There is a definite improvement in rotation. The rotating part of the focuser doesn't sag when the rotational screw is loosened and the mechanism seems as smooth as the focuser on my Altair Starwave. There is only one large set screw to hold the diagonal however, unlike the usual pair of screws on 2” focuser units. The one screw seems capable enough although I managed to obtain a second and use both.

Image

The focal plane has now changed as the new focuser is physically longer (132mm + 80mm when draw tube fully extended). This did initially cause occasional in-focusing problems with some eyepiece and diagonal combinations. This was essentially remedied by trial and error. In fact I even thought that the focusing itself was smoother and more precise.

Image

The main thing is that it still fits into my grab’n’go bag lol.
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#2

Post by Bigzmey »


Yes, between the focuser tube sagging and grinding the rotation option is poorly executed on GSO focusers. They can get away with that because there are no alternatives (at least here in US) for focuser replacement in the same price range.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#3

Post by Shorty Barlow »


Bigzmey wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:30 pm Yes, between the focuser tube sagging and grinding the rotation option is poorly executed on GSO focusers. They can get away with that because there are no alternatives (at least here in US) for focuser replacement in the same price range.

The funny thing is that the SW was 50 quid cheaper for me lol.
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#4

Post by Bigzmey »


Shorty Barlow wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:33 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:30 pm Yes, between the focuser tube sagging and grinding the rotation option is poorly executed on GSO focusers. They can get away with that because there are no alternatives (at least here in US) for focuser replacement in the same price range.

The funny thing is that the SW was 50 quid cheaper for me lol.
Nice find SB! Unfortunately, many SW products are not available in US.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#5

Post by Shorty Barlow »


Bigzmey wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:04 pm
Shorty Barlow wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:33 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:30 pm Yes, between the focuser tube sagging and grinding the rotation option is poorly executed on GSO focusers. They can get away with that because there are no alternatives (at least here in US) for focuser replacement in the same price range.

The funny thing is that the SW was 50 quid cheaper for me lol.
Nice find SB! Unfortunately, many SW products are not available in US.
That's because the Synta Technology Corporation was founded in 1980 in Taiwan by David Shen and originally marketed as Sky-Watcher to Asia and Commonwealth countries. David Shen's dream was to make affordable good quality scopes for the whole world, or at least Asia and Commonwealth countries (Suzhou Synta Optical Technology Co., Ltd was started with some capital from Canadian investment). However, Synta manufactured products for US distributors like Orion, so I'm guessing there are anti-trust issues with SW selling directly to the US market.
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#6

Post by Bigzmey »


Shorty Barlow wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:56 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:04 pm
Shorty Barlow wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:33 pm


The funny thing is that the SW was 50 quid cheaper for me lol.
Nice find SB! Unfortunately, many SW products are not available in US.
That's because the Synta Technology Corporation was founded in 1980 in Taiwan by David Shen and originally marketed as Sky-Watcher to Asia and Commonwealth countries. David Shen's dream was to make affordable good quality scopes for the whole world, or at least Asia and Commonwealth countries (Suzhou Synta Optical Technology Co., Ltd was started with some capital from Canadian investment). However, Synta manufactured products for US distributors like Orion, so I'm guessing there are anti-trust issues with SW selling directly to the US market.
Well, the distribution is strange and spotty. Premium SW APO/ED refactors are present in US as well as some random mounts and scopes. But some products are missing. You can get 120mm and 80mm F5 achros from Orion, but 100mm and 150mm F5 achros are not offered by Orion or SW. You can get AZGti mount here, but SkyTee2 is not offered, I had to ship it from Germany.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#7

Post by Shorty Barlow »


Bigzmey wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:06 pm
Shorty Barlow wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:56 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:04 pm

Nice find SB! Unfortunately, many SW products are not available in US.
That's because the Synta Technology Corporation was founded in 1980 in Taiwan by David Shen and originally marketed as Sky-Watcher to Asia and Commonwealth countries. David Shen's dream was to make affordable good quality scopes for the whole world, or at least Asia and Commonwealth countries (Suzhou Synta Optical Technology Co., Ltd was started with some capital from Canadian investment). However, Synta manufactured products for US distributors like Orion, so I'm guessing there are anti-trust issues with SW selling directly to the US market.
Well, the distribution is strange and spotty. Premium SW APO/ED refactors are present in US as well as some random mounts and scopes. But some products are missing. You can get 120mm and 80mm F5 achros from Orion, but 100mm and 150mm F5 achros are not offered by Orion or SW. You can get AZGti mount here, but SkyTee2 is not offered, I had to ship it from Germany.
Could be more of a supply and demand thing then. I have noticed some weird gaps in the US market with SW mount/tripod combinations.
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#8

Post by Shorty Barlow »


I originally bought the ST102 as an inexpensive achromat, and as a bit of a project.

Sky-Watcher ST102 OTA £170

Aftermarket Dual Speed SW Crayford £139

TS Optics Reflex Sight £72

Baader 2”~1.25” adaptor £27

£408 total (not including the GSO focuser)
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#9

Post by Bigzmey »


This is how they get you! :lol:
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#10

Post by Shorty Barlow »


Bigzmey wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:37 am This is how they get you! :lol:

Yep!
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#11

Post by Shorty Barlow »


The story continues ...

Image

The ST102 was eventually fitted with a MoonLite. This is a really nice focuser and about the same size as the GSO. However, I had some problems with the Allen screws holding the focuser adapter plate to the OTA housing. This was remedied eventually with the judicious use of a pair of pliers to properly tighten the screws. It's also worth pointing out the the screws are not a standard metric size but old-fashioned imperial (3/32).

Image

I had another MoonLite on my 80ED DS Pro for a while, but it had mechanical problems and the SW ended up replacing the second MoonLite.
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#12

Post by pakarinen »


Very interesting read, Shorty, thanks. I have a problem with my right shoulder, so sometimes I have to be a bit of a contortionist while observing.

I found a Lunt 2-speed on sale for my ST80, so luckily it wasn't more expensive than the scope. LOL. But I am in the market for a 2-speed for my ST120 and have been looking at GSOs among others.

Re: SW and other products in the US - I ordered my SW AZ5 (mount only) from FLO in the UK since it wasn't available here. It seems some people over on CN get heartburn about ordering from European suppliers, but I have no problem. If they have the honey, they get my money... And FLO has been great.
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I drink tea, I read books, I look at stars when I'm not cursing clouds. It's what I do.
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AT50, AT72EDII, ST80, ST102; Scopetech Zero, AZ-GTi, AZ Pronto; Innorel RT90C, Oberwerk 5000; Orion Giantview 15x70s, Vortex 8x42s, Navy surplus 7x50s, Nikon 10x50s
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#13

Post by Bigzmey »


pakarinen wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:32 pm Very interesting read, Shorty, thanks. I have a problem with my right shoulder, so sometimes I have to be a bit of a contortionist while observing.

I found a Lunt 2-speed on sale for my ST80, so luckily it wasn't more expensive than the scope. LOL. But I am in the market for a 2-speed for my ST120 and have been looking at GSOs among others.

Re: SW and other products in the US - I ordered my SW AZ5 (mount only) from FLO in the UK since it wasn't available here. It seems some people over on CN get heartburn about ordering from European suppliers, but I have no problem. If they have the honey, they get my money... And FLO has been great.
GSO would be the most sensible focuser upgrade for ST120.

I have bought stuff from European vendors and don't believe they are any worse than US. I think the main thing is that if there is an issue with the order (wrong item, defective, item damaged in shipping, missing parts, etc) it could be potentially harder to address. And these things happen on occasion even to very honest suppliers.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#14

Post by Greenman »


Hi Shorty, I hope all this has made it easier to use the scope.
Cheers,

Tony.

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Smart Scope: Dwarf II - Club and outreach work.

AP Refractor: Altair 72EDF Deluxe F6;1x & 0.8 Flatteners; Antares Versascope 60mm finder. ASIAir Pro.Li battery pack for grab & go.

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Cameras: main DSO ASI533MC; DSO guide ASI120MM; Planetary ASI224MC; DSLR Canon EOS100 stock.

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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#15

Post by Shorty Barlow »


Greenman wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:30 pm Hi Shorty, I hope all this has made it easier to use the scope.
Yes it has definitely improved using it. The MoonLite is really user friendly as well as being well designed. Oddly the ST102 hasn't been out much this year.
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#16

Post by pakarinen »


I bought a 102ED which I'm thinking is around 12 pounds (stupid "high tech" bathroom scale can't weigh inanimate objects) and at the upper limit for my current mounts IMO. I also bought a SW 2-speed which I thought would fit my ST120, but didn't. So I got a GSO for the 120 and was going to sell the SW focuser, but then I noticed it's supposed to be a drop-in replacement for the R&P on the SW 102. :think:

Curious what the SW 102 weighed with the SW 2-speed upgrade. If it's not as bulky as my 102ED, I'm thinking maybe the SW102 would good to fill the gap between my ST80 and ST120. :grin:

I love my 80 for portability and the 102ED for its sharpness, but it would be nice to have a more portable 102 - not as heavy as the 120, but more aperture than the 80.
=============================================================================
I drink tea, I read books, I look at stars when I'm not cursing clouds. It's what I do.
=============================================================================
AT50, AT72EDII, ST80, ST102; Scopetech Zero, AZ-GTi, AZ Pronto; Innorel RT90C, Oberwerk 5000; Orion Giantview 15x70s, Vortex 8x42s, Navy surplus 7x50s, Nikon 10x50s
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#17

Post by Shorty Barlow »


pakarinen wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:37 pm I bought a 102ED which I'm thinking is around 12 pounds (stupid "high tech" bathroom scale can't weigh inanimate objects) and at the upper limit for my current mounts IMO. I also bought a SW 2-speed which I thought would fit my ST120, but didn't. So I got a GSO for the 120 and was going to sell the SW focuser, but then I noticed it's supposed to be a drop-in replacement for the R&P on the SW 102. :think:

Curious what the SW 102 weighed with the SW 2-speed upgrade. If it's not as bulky as my 102ED, I'm thinking maybe the SW102 would good to fill the gap between my ST80 and ST120. :grin:

I love my 80 for portability and the 102ED for its sharpness, but it would be nice to have a more portable 102 - not as heavy as the 120, but more aperture than the 80.

I think my ST102 with the MoonLite or the SW (Long Perng) is about 3 kilo. As the f/4.9 OTA is fairly short it makes it quite portable and I use it on a Vixen Porta II/TL-130 combination.

Image

Useful for me as I have a physical disability.
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Re: The ST102 Never-ending Story ...

#18

Post by davesellars »


pakarinen wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:37 pm I love my 80 for portability and the 102ED for its sharpness, but it would be nice to have a more portable 102 - not as heavy as the 120, but more aperture than the 80.
This may be a bit left field... ;) But how about instead of thinking of a refractor going for a 6" reflector for the Az5?

Not sure what eyepieces you have but if you're using mainly lightweight 1.25" something like this may be ideal?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobson ... scope.html

I know it's a on a dob base, but you can just fit it directly to your Az5...

I think the 102ST may be just a little too much like what you've got... However, perhaps think about selling the 120ST and 80ST and purchase an 80mm ED to replace them... With the reflector as well you've then have a 6" reflector for DSOs and really portable too along with the 102ED for planetary and lunar observation or the 80ED for short sessions that may suit you current mount. Another option maybe just get an equatorial mount that the 102ED will sit on more comfortably... :) ... So many options! :Astronomer1:
SW Flextube 12" Dobsonian.
Starfield ED102 f/7; SW ED80; SW 120ST
EQ5 and AZ4 mounts
Eyepieces: TV Delos 17.3 & 10; Pentax XW 7 & 5; BCO 32,18,10; Fuyiyama Ortho 12.5; Vixen SLV 25.
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