About Baffles
- Michael131313
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About Baffles
I have read Gabby's post on baffles and the various links provided. I have a general idea on what they do, but would like to ask some basic questions.
What are they made of?
How do they attach to the tube?
How large are they?
What is their shape?
Do they encircle the whole tube?
Thanks very much for your help.
Michael
What are they made of?
How do they attach to the tube?
How large are they?
What is their shape?
Do they encircle the whole tube?
Thanks very much for your help.
Michael
ES AR 102 102mm, f/6.5, ES 254mm f/5 DOB, Obie 10x50, GSO SV 30mm, ES 68° 20mm, ES 82° 14mm, 11mm, 8.8 mm, 6.8mm, 4.7mm. Twilight 1 mount.
- Don Quixote
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Re: About Baffles
Hello Michael.
In a refractor tube the baffles could be like paper thin donuts of the same outer diameter as the inner diameter of the tube with gradually smaller and smaller donut holes but the same outer diameter. These donut shaped wafers attached to the inside of the telescope tube with the largest donut hole closest to the front of the telescope and gradually getting smaller as you move toward the back of the telescope.
I suppose you could make them out of anything from cardboard to metal. They could be attached with glue or spot welded or several other fastenments.
Which telescope are you going to baffle?
In a refractor tube the baffles could be like paper thin donuts of the same outer diameter as the inner diameter of the tube with gradually smaller and smaller donut holes but the same outer diameter. These donut shaped wafers attached to the inside of the telescope tube with the largest donut hole closest to the front of the telescope and gradually getting smaller as you move toward the back of the telescope.
I suppose you could make them out of anything from cardboard to metal. They could be attached with glue or spot welded or several other fastenments.
Which telescope are you going to baffle?
- notFritzArgelander
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Re: About Baffles
They are made of anything convenient and attached in some stable way. Depends on what you’re wanting to do.Michael131313 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:10 pm I have read Gabby's post on baffles and the various links provided. I have a general idea on what they do, but would like to ask some basic questions.
What are they made of?
How do they attach to the tube?
How large are they?
What is their shape?
Do they encircle the whole tube?
Thanks very much for your help.
Michael
They are as large as possible without shadowing the field of view. Gabby treated a good method for sizing.
They are cylindrically symmetric, encircling the tube inside. They can be annular rings.
The most important part aside from geometry is flat black finish.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
- Lady Fraktor
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Re: About Baffles
If you are wanting to place new baffles in your telescope I would recommend drawing it out full size so placement can be worked out accurately.
I have made baffles out of metal and even stiff poster paper.
I can post an image of what a baffle looks like and is held in place inside the tube as I was going to be removing the focuser from one tonight.
I have made baffles out of metal and even stiff poster paper.
I can post an image of what a baffle looks like and is held in place inside the tube as I was going to be removing the focuser from one tonight.
Gabrielle
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
The only culture I have is from yogurt
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
The only culture I have is from yogurt
- notFritzArgelander
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Re: About Baffles
Repost of the link to the Berfield method:
http://www.berfield.com/baffles.html
This is minimal IMO. A couple more can only help.
Also another idea for building a complete baffle assembly which can be removed for maintenance if necessary.
http://mirrorworkshop.mtbparker.com/refractorStory.html
The spacings of the baffles are not like Berfield and so are not so recommendable. (I see considerable redundancy.) But I very much like the idea of a baffle assemblage that can be removed / replaced as a unit.
http://www.berfield.com/baffles.html
This is minimal IMO. A couple more can only help.
Also another idea for building a complete baffle assembly which can be removed for maintenance if necessary.
http://mirrorworkshop.mtbparker.com/refractorStory.html
The spacings of the baffles are not like Berfield and so are not so recommendable. (I see considerable redundancy.) But I very much like the idea of a baffle assemblage that can be removed / replaced as a unit.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
- Michael131313
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Re: About Baffles
Thanks all for the info:
Don Q. I haven't decided if I want to place baffles in myES AR102. It does not have any baffles. I did what John posted and looked down the tube at the objective to see how dark it was. I did this in the daylight. Unfortunately the sides of the tube are not at all dark. Now I realize what baffles do. I have never taken the scope apart, so I'm a little wary as to what might happen. I live in an area where there would be no help except for TSS .
n_FA. Thanks for the info and links. The baffle assembly is an interesting idea. How do you think it is attached?
Gabby. I would very much like to see the baffle. Thanks.
Don Q. I haven't decided if I want to place baffles in my
n_FA. Thanks for the info and links. The baffle assembly is an interesting idea. How do you think it is attached?
Gabby. I would very much like to see the baffle. Thanks.
ES AR 102 102mm, f/6.5, ES 254mm f/5 DOB, Obie 10x50, GSO SV 30mm, ES 68° 20mm, ES 82° 14mm, 11mm, 8.8 mm, 6.8mm, 4.7mm. Twilight 1 mount.
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Re: About Baffles
My idea would be to simply size the baffle assembly to slip into the tube to fit. Then should maintenance be necessary it can be easily removed.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
- Don Quixote
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Re: About Baffles
Another thing you may consider in evaluating any light controlling upgrade is the focuser tube.
When I am evaluating my own kit, looking through the objective end in daylight can give some false flags because NOTHING captures ALL the light. You WILL see lighter areas and shadows depending on the angle of direct light entering the objective. I recommend making this observation with the objective pointed toward a uniform, neutral background, like a ceiling. Shining a flashlight down the tube may be overkill.
Comparing one scope to another of equal spec may reveal a difference between the two which could be meaningful as well.
One objective of controlling the light scatter with baffles is to optimize contrast.
But I also look through the focuser end with no diagonal installed. This can reveal light scatter in the focuser tube. It will show up as a lighter ring between the entry point of the focuser and the field stop of the objective.
I have treated this in my 2 inch and larger focuser by inserting a flocking material into the focuser tube. This can be slid forward and backward in the focuser tube to tune out these reflections.
I would add to my evaluation of the need of upgrading your 102 a look through the focuser end with noEP installed.
I have posted here, somewhere, my method for this focuser tube treatment. It has been effective for me.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3495
When I am evaluating my own kit, looking through the objective end in daylight can give some false flags because NOTHING captures ALL the light. You WILL see lighter areas and shadows depending on the angle of direct light entering the objective. I recommend making this observation with the objective pointed toward a uniform, neutral background, like a ceiling. Shining a flashlight down the tube may be overkill.
Comparing one scope to another of equal spec may reveal a difference between the two which could be meaningful as well.
One objective of controlling the light scatter with baffles is to optimize contrast.
But I also look through the focuser end with no diagonal installed. This can reveal light scatter in the focuser tube. It will show up as a lighter ring between the entry point of the focuser and the field stop of the objective.
I have treated this in my 2 inch and larger focuser by inserting a flocking material into the focuser tube. This can be slid forward and backward in the focuser tube to tune out these reflections.
I would add to my evaluation of the need of upgrading your 102 a look through the focuser end with no
I have posted here, somewhere, my method for this focuser tube treatment. It has been effective for me.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3495
- Lady Fraktor
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Re: About Baffles
Here is a image of the rear factory baffle, you can see the folded over tabs that hold it in place. These are towards the focuser.
I usually make the tabs about 15mm.
When looking through the objective you should not be able to see the tube walls.
I usually make the tabs about 15mm.
When looking through the objective you should not be able to see the tube walls.
Gabrielle
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
The only culture I have is from yogurt
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
The only culture I have is from yogurt
- j.gardavsky
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Re: About Baffles
Just on a side line,
next to the baffles in theOTA tube, it is flocking of the zenit mirror house interior. The side walls on the budget zenit mirrors reflect the light rays, which are not trapped by the baffles in the OTA . Tomorrow I'll take a pic, need the day light for my photography.
Some people place an adjustable iris diaphragm in front of the zenit mirror/prism, I have for it an iris diaphragm form Leitz Diavert. It is at the moment in the socks drawer, should I believe to need it in future.
And last but not least is is an oversized lens hood on a refractor, protecting the lens and theOTA from the stray light sorces and from the sky glow.
When the refractor is correctly protected from the unwanted light, then a 6" rich field refractor will beat on contrast even the much larger Dobs, and it will show some faint fuzzies even at lower magnifications.
Best,
JG
next to the baffles in the
Some people place an adjustable iris diaphragm in front of the zenit mirror/prism, I have for it an iris diaphragm form Leitz Diavert. It is at the moment in the socks drawer, should I believe to need it in future.
And last but not least is is an oversized lens hood on a refractor, protecting the lens and the
When the refractor is correctly protected from the unwanted light, then a 6" rich field refractor will beat on contrast even the much larger Dobs, and it will show some faint fuzzies even at lower magnifications.
Best,
JG
6" F/5 Sky-Watcher achro, 2" BBHS Star Diagonal, 2" zenith prism, 1.25" Takahashi prism
Leica 82mm APO Televid
Eyepieces: Docter UWA; Leica B WW and WW Asph. Zoom; Leica HC Plan S and L, monocentric; Pentax SMC XW, O-, XO; Tak MC O, Carl Zeiss B WW, and Pl, E-Pl, S-Pl, W-Pl;
Swarovski SW; Baader Symmetric Diascope Edition; Nikon NAV SW, ; TMB supermonocentric; Rodenstock; Vixen HR; TV Delos
Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader, Balzers, Zeiss West and East, Lumicon
Binoculars (7x42 up to 15x85): Docter Nobilem, Leica Ultravid, Nikon Astroluxe, Swarovski EL Swarovision; BA8 (Kunming Optical)
Leica 82mm APO Televid
Eyepieces: Docter UWA; Leica B WW and WW Asph. Zoom; Leica HC Plan S and L, monocentric; Pentax SMC XW, O-, XO; Tak MC O, Carl Zeiss B WW, and Pl, E-Pl, S-Pl, W-Pl;
Swarovski SW; Baader Symmetric Diascope Edition; Nikon NAV SW, ; TMB supermonocentric; Rodenstock; Vixen HR; TV Delos
Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader, Balzers, Zeiss West and East, Lumicon
Binoculars (7x42 up to 15x85): Docter Nobilem, Leica Ultravid, Nikon Astroluxe, Swarovski EL Swarovision; BA8 (Kunming Optical)
- Michael131313
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Re: About Baffles
Thanks everyone. When I look through the objective, no diagonal or EP , I just see black (no tube walls) except the light from the focuser opening. When I look through the focuser end, no diagonal or EP , the focuser tube is black, but the inside of the OTA tube is a light grey. (During daylight). Would this be a case for baffles?
ES AR 102 102mm, f/6.5, ES 254mm f/5 DOB, Obie 10x50, GSO SV 30mm, ES 68° 20mm, ES 82° 14mm, 11mm, 8.8 mm, 6.8mm, 4.7mm. Twilight 1 mount.
- Don Quixote
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Re: About Baffles
For what it is worth...
These are images of the focuser end and the objective end on my 100mm Evostar Doublet.
This telescope has only three factory installed baffles.
First is Objective. One with flash. One with no flash. The next set is the focuser end. One with flash. One with no flash. Personally I would think three or four times before disassembling your 102 to add baffling.
Just my conservative opinion.
The flocking of areas mentioned by JG in post #10 above would also be good to consider.
Cheers.
These are images of the focuser end and the objective end on my 100mm Evostar Doublet.
This telescope has only three factory installed baffles.
First is Objective. One with flash. One with no flash. The next set is the focuser end. One with flash. One with no flash. Personally I would think three or four times before disassembling your 102 to add baffling.
Just my conservative opinion.
The flocking of areas mentioned by JG in post #10 above would also be good to consider.
Cheers.
- Michael131313
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Re: About Baffles
Thank you everyone for the info and help. I have learned a lot.
Don Q. Thanks for the photos. I agree. My AR102 gives me very good views as is. I don't feel good about messing around with it right now.
Don Q. Thanks for the photos. I agree. My AR102 gives me very good views as is. I don't feel good about messing around with it right now.
ES AR 102 102mm, f/6.5, ES 254mm f/5 DOB, Obie 10x50, GSO SV 30mm, ES 68° 20mm, ES 82° 14mm, 11mm, 8.8 mm, 6.8mm, 4.7mm. Twilight 1 mount.
- j.gardavsky
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Re: About Baffles
Hello Michael,
it looks o.k. for me, I would do just nothing, leaving it as it is,
JG
it looks o.k. for me, I would do just nothing, leaving it as it is,
JG
6" F/5 Sky-Watcher achro, 2" BBHS Star Diagonal, 2" zenith prism, 1.25" Takahashi prism
Leica 82mm APO Televid
Eyepieces: Docter UWA; Leica B WW and WW Asph. Zoom; Leica HC Plan S and L, monocentric; Pentax SMC XW, O-, XO; Tak MC O, Carl Zeiss B WW, and Pl, E-Pl, S-Pl, W-Pl;
Swarovski SW; Baader Symmetric Diascope Edition; Nikon NAV SW, ; TMB supermonocentric; Rodenstock; Vixen HR; TV Delos
Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader, Balzers, Zeiss West and East, Lumicon
Binoculars (7x42 up to 15x85): Docter Nobilem, Leica Ultravid, Nikon Astroluxe, Swarovski EL Swarovision; BA8 (Kunming Optical)
Leica 82mm APO Televid
Eyepieces: Docter UWA; Leica B WW and WW Asph. Zoom; Leica HC Plan S and L, monocentric; Pentax SMC XW, O-, XO; Tak MC O, Carl Zeiss B WW, and Pl, E-Pl, S-Pl, W-Pl;
Swarovski SW; Baader Symmetric Diascope Edition; Nikon NAV SW, ; TMB supermonocentric; Rodenstock; Vixen HR; TV Delos
Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader, Balzers, Zeiss West and East, Lumicon
Binoculars (7x42 up to 15x85): Docter Nobilem, Leica Ultravid, Nikon Astroluxe, Swarovski EL Swarovision; BA8 (Kunming Optical)
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Re: About Baffles
Michael,
just not to forget, if you are using a zenit diagonal mirror, check out its inner life on spurious reflections.
Best,
JG
just not to forget, if you are using a zenit diagonal mirror, check out its inner life on spurious reflections.
Best,
JG
6" F/5 Sky-Watcher achro, 2" BBHS Star Diagonal, 2" zenith prism, 1.25" Takahashi prism
Leica 82mm APO Televid
Eyepieces: Docter UWA; Leica B WW and WW Asph. Zoom; Leica HC Plan S and L, monocentric; Pentax SMC XW, O-, XO; Tak MC O, Carl Zeiss B WW, and Pl, E-Pl, S-Pl, W-Pl;
Swarovski SW; Baader Symmetric Diascope Edition; Nikon NAV SW, ; TMB supermonocentric; Rodenstock; Vixen HR; TV Delos
Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader, Balzers, Zeiss West and East, Lumicon
Binoculars (7x42 up to 15x85): Docter Nobilem, Leica Ultravid, Nikon Astroluxe, Swarovski EL Swarovision; BA8 (Kunming Optical)
Leica 82mm APO Televid
Eyepieces: Docter UWA; Leica B WW and WW Asph. Zoom; Leica HC Plan S and L, monocentric; Pentax SMC XW, O-, XO; Tak MC O, Carl Zeiss B WW, and Pl, E-Pl, S-Pl, W-Pl;
Swarovski SW; Baader Symmetric Diascope Edition; Nikon NAV SW, ; TMB supermonocentric; Rodenstock; Vixen HR; TV Delos
Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader, Balzers, Zeiss West and East, Lumicon
Binoculars (7x42 up to 15x85): Docter Nobilem, Leica Ultravid, Nikon Astroluxe, Swarovski EL Swarovision; BA8 (Kunming Optical)
- Michael131313
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Re: About Baffles
Thank you for your help JG.
I do not know what a "zenit" diagonal mirror is. TheES AR102 came with GSO (I think) 99% reflective 2 inch mirror diagonal. I will do as you say and check for stray light soon.
Michael
I do not know what a "zenit" diagonal mirror is. The
Michael
ES AR 102 102mm, f/6.5, ES 254mm f/5 DOB, Obie 10x50, GSO SV 30mm, ES 68° 20mm, ES 82° 14mm, 11mm, 8.8 mm, 6.8mm, 4.7mm. Twilight 1 mount.
- notFritzArgelander
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Re: About Baffles
That's exactly a "zenit" mirror in German.Michael131313 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:28 pm Thank you for your help JG.
I do not know what a "zenit" diagonal mirror is. The ES AR102 came with GSO (I think) 99% reflective 2 inch mirror diagonal. I will do as you say and check for stray light soon.
Michael
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: About Baffles
Got my German lesson today. Thanks n_FA.
ES AR 102 102mm, f/6.5, ES 254mm f/5 DOB, Obie 10x50, GSO SV 30mm, ES 68° 20mm, ES 82° 14mm, 11mm, 8.8 mm, 6.8mm, 4.7mm. Twilight 1 mount.
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Re: About Baffles
"zenit(h) diagonal mirror"
It is an "unword", something like "make the right angle right" in the fun video.
Another unword is "zenit(h) prism diagonal",
https://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/a ... t-14).html
There are not many prisms without diagonal,
and the mirrors are just flat, concave, convex, dirty, ...
Best,
JG
It is an "unword", something like "make the right angle right" in the fun video.
Another unword is "zenit(h) prism diagonal",
https://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/a ... t-14).html
There are not many prisms without diagonal,
and the mirrors are just flat, concave, convex, dirty, ...
Best,
JG
6" F/5 Sky-Watcher achro, 2" BBHS Star Diagonal, 2" zenith prism, 1.25" Takahashi prism
Leica 82mm APO Televid
Eyepieces: Docter UWA; Leica B WW and WW Asph. Zoom; Leica HC Plan S and L, monocentric; Pentax SMC XW, O-, XO; Tak MC O, Carl Zeiss B WW, and Pl, E-Pl, S-Pl, W-Pl;
Swarovski SW; Baader Symmetric Diascope Edition; Nikon NAV SW, ; TMB supermonocentric; Rodenstock; Vixen HR; TV Delos
Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader, Balzers, Zeiss West and East, Lumicon
Binoculars (7x42 up to 15x85): Docter Nobilem, Leica Ultravid, Nikon Astroluxe, Swarovski EL Swarovision; BA8 (Kunming Optical)
Leica 82mm APO Televid
Eyepieces: Docter UWA; Leica B WW and WW Asph. Zoom; Leica HC Plan S and L, monocentric; Pentax SMC XW, O-, XO; Tak MC O, Carl Zeiss B WW, and Pl, E-Pl, S-Pl, W-Pl;
Swarovski SW; Baader Symmetric Diascope Edition; Nikon NAV SW, ; TMB supermonocentric; Rodenstock; Vixen HR; TV Delos
Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader, Balzers, Zeiss West and East, Lumicon
Binoculars (7x42 up to 15x85): Docter Nobilem, Leica Ultravid, Nikon Astroluxe, Swarovski EL Swarovision; BA8 (Kunming Optical)
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