TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

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TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

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Post by kt4hx »

This month we will be following along (for the most part) the primary plane of our own galaxy, the Milky Way sampling some of its riches. The northern summer and southern winter is rife with delightful nebulae of various types and myriad star clusters of both the open and globular variety. You will see we are heavily weighted into the objects of Charles Messier for this edition, as he has some of the finest in the skies within his short list. They make excellent visual and imaging objects and are frequently re-visited even by the most experienced members of our hobby simply because they are that good. So let’s get into this month’s selections for your viewing, sketching and/or imaging pleasure. I hope you like the journey whether you’re seeing these for the first time or the hundredth; they never get old.


Northern Celestial Hemisphere:


Messier 27 / NGC 6853 (Vulpecula, planetary nebula, mag=7.1, size=8.0’x5.7’, SBr=11.0):
This stunning planetary was discovered by Messier in 1764 and is the first planetary nebula discovered. It was independently discovered by Caroline Herschel in 1782 during only her second sweep as she was looking for comets.

Nicknamed the “Dumbbell Nebula” due to its bi-lobed interior structure, it is one of the premiere objects sought out during the northern summer nights. Bright and large (for a planetary) it is one of the first such objects (along with M57) viewed by beginners who are building their observing and/or imaging skills. With its higher surface brightness it is easy to pick up with all sizes of instruments, and clearly recognizable as a non-stellar object. With moderate aperture and scrutiny, it reveals its tell-tale dumbbell, apple core or hourglass (whichever you prefer) interior structure. The planetary visually responds very well to a narrow-band nebula filter, as well as an O-III line filter. Its mag 13.5 central star may be glimpsed, plus there are several imposed foreground stars that may be picked up as well. This is truly an amazing object.

Messier 57 / NGC 6720 (Lyra, planetary nebula, mag=8.8, size=1.4’x1.0’, SBr=8.9):
The famous “Ring Nebula” is another northern summer staple for observers. Conveniently located nearly half way along a line from Beta Lyrae (Sheliak) to Gamma Lyrae (Sulafat), it is viewable by apertures small to large, though small scopes will not reveal much detail. At a minimum it appears as a small ghostly orb, but with more aperture it turns into a smoke ring, with a strong annular structure and gauzy veil filling in its doughnut hole. With larger scopes, a keen eye and steady seeing its mag 15.4 central star may be glimpsed and poses an excellent challenge.

Like most planetaries it responds well to both narrow-band nebula and O-III line filters. It was discovered by Messier on 31 January 1779 while looking for Bode’s Comet (the great comet of 1779). Sometimes we see references to discovery by Antoine Darquier in mid-February 1779, but his was an independent discovery and Messier deserves full credit. Regardless, give this perennial favorite a careful study and see just how much detail you can pull out. For those with larger aperture and darker skies, see if you can pick up the small barred spiral galaxy IC 1296 (mag=14.0, size=1.1'x0.9'; SBr=13.8) just 4’ northwest of M57. It presents an excellent challenge.

Messier 71 / NGC 6838 (Sagitta, globular cluster, mag=8.4, size=7.2’, SBr=12.4, class=11):
Sagitta the celestial arrow lies in a very rich Milky Way field between Vulpecula and Aquila. It is home to this very loosely structured globular cluster. Discovery credit for this object goes to Philippe de Chéseaux in the 1745-46 time-frame. Whether this is an unusually dense open cluster or a particularly loose globular cluster has been the subject of speculation and much debate. Initially classified as the former, a study in the 1970s determined it was actually more akin to the latter type of object.

Regardless of all the confusion surrounding its true physical nature, it is indeed a curious object worthy of our attention. This beautiful cluster appears as a hazy concentration within a rich Milky Way field using smaller apertures. But as one increases aperture and magnification, it resolves nicely into a concentrated scatter of stars, well detached from the field and overlaying a hazy backdrop of deeper members. While it is not the rival of some of the more majestic globulars well known to observers and imagers, it is still an entrancing object that should be studied more closely, and I encourage you to do so.


Southern Celestial Hemisphere:


Messier 8 / NGC 6533 (Sagittarius, bright nebula, mag=5.8, size=90.0’x40.0’):
The infamous “Lagoon Nebula” is a thing of beauty and many parts. The designation of NGC 6533 is the whole complex which was first noted by Giovanni Battista Hodierna sometime before 1654. The whole of M8 is comprised of NGC 6523 (northwestern brightest section), NGC 6526 (southeastern dimmer portion) and NGC 6530 (open cluster in the eastern portion). There are also some dark nebulae present that give it an uneven texture. Additionally there are two smaller portions of nebulosity that may or may not be part of the greater complex. IC 1271 is a small bit of nebulosity illuminated by the mag 6.9 star HD 165052 east of the cluster NGC 6530. Another is IC 4678, which is a small halo of nebulosity less than a degree northeast of the center of M8. These last two sections are not typically considered when one thinks of the larger nebular complex however.

But any way you slice it, M8 is an outstanding visual and imaging treat. Bright and showy at any aperture level, it responds very well to a narrow-band nebula filter, which boosts its contrast significantly. Using an O-III filter is also rewarding. While it dims some of the fainter outer portions, it enhances the darker central regions nicely. If one has both, it is always an interesting comparison to apply each and compare the changes in the view. Even if you’ve seen this object numerous times, it will never disappoint. If you observe from a darker region you are in for a fine display through the eyepiece, and be sure to look for it with the naked eye.


Messier 20 / NGC 6514 (Sagittarius, bright nebula, mag=6.3, size=29.0’x27.0’):
This object is quite unique, as its nickname of “Trifid Nebula” would seem to imply. Noticeably smaller than Messier 8 and a bit dimmer, it still is a beautiful nebula complex, consisting of emission, reflection and dark elements. Discovered by Messier in 1764, he noticed the central star cluster (known to us as OCL-23). William Herschel is the one who noticed “three nebulae” while his son John was the first to utilize the name “Trifid” to describe the nebula. Less than 1.5° NNW of M8, it is easily seen in small apertures within the same field of view. If you have a narrow-band nebula filter in your kit, give it a try to bring out some more contrast.

From darker locations it shows up wonderfully through the eyepiece and is visible with the naked eye just above M8. Also from darker locations, see if you can spot its dimmer reflection portions, predominantly in the northern section of the complex. While it is not quite the showpiece that M8 is visually, M20 is no slouch and presents an interesting visual and imaging target.

NGC 6188 (Ara, bright nebula, mag=unk, size=20.0’x12.0’):
NGC 6193 (Ara, open cluster, mag=5.2, size=15.0’, class= II3p):
This nice complex is sometimes called the Firebird Nebula and Cluster. Located in northwestern Ara near its border with Norma, the discovery of this field is split between James Dunlop and John Herschel. Dunlop discovered the cluster, later designated as NGC 6193, in 1826 but did not mention any nebulosity in his notations. Herschel formally discovered the nebula in 1836 and also observed the cluster, mentioning both in his discovery notes.

Though the cluster is swaddled in nebulosity, the brightest portions of the nebula lie immediately west of the bright young cluster, which is an OB1 association. Like many such nebulae, it consists of both emission and reflective elements, and images also reveal strands of dark obscuring matter traversing the field. The complex provides a beautiful combination of young hot stars still wrapped in their womb of nebulosity, and one that I’ve had the pleasure of observing a couple of times. I hope you enjoy it as well.


I leave these beautiful objects in your capable hands. Whether you observe, observe and sketch, or image, any of this month's objects are very worthy of your time and effort. Some of the true showpieces of the night sky, they are dressed to impress, and provide lasting memories of their heavenly beauty.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
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"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
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John Baars Netherlands
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#2

Post by John Baars »

Very nice objects for the Northern Hemisphere. Good choice. For new observers too. Thanks!
I have seen and sketched them all of course. I hope to renew them this month! I'll report back.
Refractors in frequency of use : *SW Evostar 120ED F/7.5 (all round ), * Vixen 102ED F/9 (vintage), both on Vixen GPDX.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ :* TS Optics 50mm ED F4, *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets, but no GnG).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Baader Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#3

Post by helicon »

Great objects Alan. My first view of M27 through my 10" Dob took my breath away, it was so bright and large. I also enjoyed M71 the loose globular. Now Sagitta was only partially visible naked eye from my previous locale but formed a nice asterism in my 8x50 finder. Setting the crosshairs I zeroed in on the cluster's spot and wow what a sight because of the rich star field behind it. I also had a nice view of the faint and loose M56 in Lyra on the same eve, another of those rich star field globulars.

M57 just happened to be the first object I looked at after a 20 year hiatus back in 2012.
-Michael
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#4

Post by sdbodin »

Just imaged M71 with my Rokinon 135mm telephoto. Accidentally, got the whole Arrow asterism of Sagitta in the image too. So, a wide field view of M71 and the Arrow. Exposed just 5 minutes in 30 second subs thru the Rokinon at f2.0 and Asi1600MC-cool camera w/Baader FK filter, just raw data cropped, about 30% and about 50% full frame size. M71 hiding in plain sight in a sea of stars.
m71_135f2full.jpg

Clear skies,
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#5

Post by kt4hx »

John Baars wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:22 pm Very nice objects for the Northern Hemisphere. Good choice. For new observers too. Thanks!
I have seen and sketched them all of course. I hope to renew them this month! I'll report back.

Thank you John. I not surprised at all that you have observed them (numerous times) and sketched them as well. Some things are certainly worth revisiting from time to time.

helicon wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:21 pm Great objects Alan. My first view of M27 through my 10" Dob took my breath away, it was so bright and large. I also enjoyed M71 the loose globular. Now Sagitta was only partially visible naked eye from my previous locale but formed a nice asterism in my 8x50 finder. Setting the crosshairs I zeroed in on the cluster's spot and wow what a sight because of the rich star field behind it. I also had a nice view of the faint and loose M56 in Lyra on the same eve, another of those rich star field globulars.

M57 just happened to be the first object I looked at after a 20 year hiatus back in 2012.

Thank you Michael. Sagitta is one of those constellations that can become lost in the star field. At home, it is easy to see because the richness of the MW is absent for the most part. The first time we went over to the dark site area, I had trouble finding it because it was simply lost in the profusion of stars. Eventually I figured it out and got used to the difference from home to there and could adjust my eye/mind to the view at hand.

I recall you mentioning that M57 was your first upon returning to the hobby. A fitting welcome back indeed! Without a doubt, M27 can be stunning, particularly if one isn't certain what to expect.

sdbodin wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 11:11 pm Just imaged M71 with my Rokinon 135mm telephoto. Accidentally, got the whole Arrow asterism of Sagitta in the image too. So, a wide field view of M71 and the Arrow. Exposed just 5 minutes in 30 second subs thru the Rokinon at f2.0 and Asi1600MC-cool camera w/Baader FK filter, just raw data cropped, about 30% and about 50% full frame size. M71 hiding in plain sight in a sea of stars.
m71_135f2full.jpg

Clear skies,
Steve

Very nice image Steve, and thank you. M71, does not rise to the level of something like M13, but it still impresses. Despite being swamped by such a star rich field, it still holds its own and once you find it and really delve into it, it is quite beautiful set within its surroundings.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
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"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#6

Post by Graeme1858 »

That's a great list of everybody's favourite Messiers Alan! M57 was too my first ever proper astro image and I was proper proud of it even though it was rubbish! And I remember the first time I captured M27 was a bit of a wow for me too. M71 is ticked in my Messier Contest list But it's not a great image. So I'm going to have a go at all three again with my new Grab and Go rig on the next clear night, which is tonight! The field of view will go from Sulafat to Sheliak so M57 will look quite small but not as small as NGC 6210 from last month!
Graeme

──────────────────────────────────────────────
Celestron 9.25" F10 SCT, CGX Mount.
StellaMira 110mm ED APO F6 Refractor, AVX Mount
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC.
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

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Post by kt4hx »

Graeme1858 wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:40 am That's a great list of everybody's favourite Messiers Alan! M57 was too my first ever proper astro image and I was proper proud of it even though it was rubbish! And I remember the first time I captured M27 was a bit of a wow for me too. M71 is ticked in my Messier Contest list But it's not a great image. So I'm going to have a go at all three again with my new Grab and Go rig on the next clear night, which is tonight! The field of view will go from Sulafat to Sheliak so M57 will look quite small but not as small as NGC 6210 from last month!

Thank you and good luck Graeme, looking forward to your results.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
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"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

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Post by Graeme1858 »

Here's my submission, captured using my new Grab and Go StellaMira 110mm ED APO on an AVX Mount. I just did 60 x 30 second exposures on each one because I haven't sorted out the guiding yet. No calibration frames. I used Vega to focus with my 9.25" Bahtinov mask and it was close but was starting to drift by the time I got to M71. There were clouds drifting by and I stopped the sequence a couple of times. The brighter stars were twinkling well.

M27

M27.jpg


M57

M57_01.jpg


M71

M71.jpg
Graeme

──────────────────────────────────────────────
Celestron 9.25" F10 SCT, CGX Mount.
StellaMira 110mm ED APO F6 Refractor, AVX Mount
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC.
ZWO EFW, ZWO OAG, ASI220MM Mini.
APM 11x70 ED APO Binoculars.
──────────────────────────────────────────────
https://www.averywayobservatory.co.uk/
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#9

Post by kt4hx »

Nicely done Graeme. Certainly does show the vast difference in angular size between M27 and M57. Your M71 image really does bring out the richness of the larger field in which it lies. Appreciate your response and support of the challenge and I only hope we can get some others posting as well.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

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Post by Graeme1858 »

kt4hx wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:55 pm Nicely done Graeme. Certainly does show the vast difference in angular size between M27 and M57.

Cheers Alan

Yes, it's interesting to see the difference in angular size of objects in images using the same equipment. I'm looking forward to seeing what my new grab'n'go can do when I do some calibration frames. I might put it on the pier, retire the CGX/SCT and have a summer of bigger targets!
Graeme

──────────────────────────────────────────────
Celestron 9.25" F10 SCT, CGX Mount.
StellaMira 110mm ED APO F6 Refractor, AVX Mount
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC.
ZWO EFW, ZWO OAG, ASI220MM Mini.
APM 11x70 ED APO Binoculars.
──────────────────────────────────────────────
https://www.averywayobservatory.co.uk/
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#11

Post by kt4hx »

Here are some of my observations of the northern objects from our dark site using the 17.5 inch. The first two are from five years ago, while the M57 observation is from two years.

Messier 27 / NGC 6853 (Vulpecula, planetary nebula, mag=7.1, size=8.0’x5.7’, SBr=11.0):
Being tired and chilled is always a good reason to wrap up a session! I had had my fill of dim galaxies so wanted to go out with a bang. Therefore I headed over to Vulpecula to take a quick look at the “Dumbbell Nebula” or “Apple Core Nebula.” At 110x in the 17.5” it was huge and bright, whitish-gray in color and the dumbbell or apple core shape readily apparent. It appeared as a ghostly apparition floating in the darkness of the field. It is always a beautiful object to observe.

Messier 71 / NGC 6838 (Sagitta, globular cluster, mag=8.4, size=7.2’, SBr=12.4, class=11):
As a final object I drifted down into the little arrow. Quickly scooping up this loose globular, it was indeed a pretty sight in the big dob. At 110x it was nicely resolved, a rich field of stellar points. It was clearly wedge or arrow shaped and a shimmering pool of starlight. Simply put, it was a stunning sight to behold.

Messier 57 / NGC 6720 (Lyra, planetary nebula, mag=8.8, size=1.4’x1.0’, SBr=8.9):
So, Lyra hanging there and I had already thought about its mag 15.8 central star for a bit anyway, as it had been many years since I’d seen it. So I quickly aimed the scope between Beta and Gamma Lyrae and quickly swept up this bright planetary using 152x and it was a nice visual treat. It appeared as an out of round, slightly smooshed doughnut with its annulus being of uneven brightness. The interior was not dark, but displayed a dim gauzy veil. I immediately went to the XW 5mm (397x) and studied the center of the disk for about ten minutes, as well as watching the stars immediately adjacent to the body of the nebula. I was looking for signs of the ever constant shift in seeing. I could see the periphery stars brighten slightly then dim slightly. Focusing my attention on the pale white film filling the center of the ring, I could in moments of clarity see this very dim star pop into view momentarily then quickly wink out of sight. I watched this occur repeatedly as the elusive white dwarf central star revealed its presence to me in little glimpses. I could have continued to play hide and seek with it, but preferred to move onward.



For the southern objects, the first two objects were also observed from the dark site with the 17.5 inch. These occurred three years ago. The final southern objects are too far south from home, but I did observe them while on a business trip nine years ago, using my ES ED80 refractor.



Messier 20 / NGC 6514 (Sagittarius, bright nebula, mag=6.3, size=29.0’x27.0’):
Swinging down to the celestial archer, I could see both M20 and M8 with the naked eye despite the weaker than usual transparency. Easily scooping up both of them in the RACI and then at 94x, I concentrated on the “Trifid” first. As it eased into the field of view it was easy to see how it got its nickname. Three primary sections were easily visible without a filter and the view at 152x was outstanding. The depth and extent of its dark lanes lent it an almost 3-D curdled appearance. I did not notice the reflection elements at the northern edge of the primary complex, but transparency being as it was, I was not overly surprised. The open cluster (OCL-37) at its heart was readily apparent as a tiny knot of stellar light surrounded by a scatter of stars. It was such a beautiful object to enjoy at the end of my evening.

Messier 8 / NGC 6533 (Sagittarius, bright nebula, mag=5.8, size=90.0’x40.0’):
Less than 1.5° SSE of M20 I quickly centered this beautiful enormous nebular complex. I easily noticed the bright scattering of stars marking the open cluster NGC 6530 in the eastern portion of the nebula. The exceedingly bright northwestern section, NGC 6523, was prominent, and displayed variations in density and brightness around its periphery. The primary dark lane was quite prominent between NGC 6523 and the smaller and dimmer portion, NGC 6526 to its southeast. This section of the complex, though not as bold as that on the other side of the “lagoon” was still quite bold and displayed variations in density and brightness across its dimension. Overall the whole nebula (NGC 6533) was a beautiful and entrancing sight on such an otherwise poor evening.

NGC 6188 (Ara, bright nebula, mag=, size=20.0’x12.0’):
NGC 6193 (Ara, open cluster, mag=5.2, size=15.0’, class= II3p):

Working my way northwest from Epsilon Arae, I found the cluster NGC 6193 easily. At 27x I immediately noted the haziness around the stars in the cluster and as before it gave a general sense of looking through a thin veil. Dropping in the Ultra Block I had a sense that a large part of the field was subtly hazy. Scanning around the field I even picked up some brighter knots of nebulosity to the north and southwest of the cluster.

Focusing my attention more on the cluster now, a dazzling pair of stars at magnitude 5.6 and 6.9 dominate its field. Using the 18mm for 27x, I saw about seven or eight stars, with the brightest of them showing some haziness around them (the nebula). At 43x, about 10 stars were seen with most being east and southeast of the dominant pair. At 71x and 102x, I counted upwards of 15 stars scattered to the eastern side of the central pair. These peripheral stars formed a “C” pattern, like Pacman trying to swallow up the bright pair. The whole time the central pair remained enveloped in a dim haze of nebulosity.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#12

Post by Graeme1858 »

Your description of M8 makes me want to move house! I don't get to see a lot of Sagittarius objects from 51°N with the Medway Towns to the South of me. That was a good read Alan, cheers.
Graeme

──────────────────────────────────────────────
Celestron 9.25" F10 SCT, CGX Mount.
StellaMira 110mm ED APO F6 Refractor, AVX Mount
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC.
ZWO EFW, ZWO OAG, ASI220MM Mini.
APM 11x70 ED APO Binoculars.
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#13

Post by kt4hx »

Graeme1858 wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:01 am Your description of M8 makes me want to move house! I don't get to see a lot of Sagittarius objects from 51°N with the Medway Towns to the South of me. That was a good read Alan, cheers.

Thank you Graeme. its unfortunate that no matter where we live there are always certain parts of the sky that just remain difficult if not impossible. I do wish that we could all see all of the sky to take in its full range of beauty.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#14

Post by messier 111 »

here are my 2 photos that I happily submit to you.
m27 and m57
m27 100 x 10 sec
m57 60 x10 sec
seestar 50
.
Attachments
mod 27.jpg
mod 1.jpg
REFRACTORS , . Lunt 80mm MT Ha Doublet Refractor . William Optics ZenithStar 81 Doublet APO f/6.9 .
BINOS REFRACTOR , apm 82mm sd .
BINOS , Celestron 7x50 made in Japan .
Seestar S50 Smart Telescope .
EYEPIECES, 26mm Nagler t5 , 2-zoom Svbony 7-21 ,2 x Baader Hyperion Universal Zoom Mark IV 8-24mm 68° ,2 x 18mm apm flat field , Orion Premium Linear BinoViewer .
FILTERS, Nebustar 2 tele vue .Celestron uhc . Apm solar wedge . contrast booster 2 inches and 2 x 1,25 inche .
MOUNTS , cg-4 ,MANFROTO 028 B and fluide head 608 .
Starbound Adjustable Observing Chair .

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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#15

Post by John Baars »

Back to the first time M57

My signature says "amateur since 1970". I was a 15 year old boy. I searched the sky with 7X35 binoculars ( I had worked for them in a printshop), and had a planisphere as well. A few years later I made my own telescope from a cardboard tube and a ( single!) lens (from a pair of old glasses). With it I "discovered" the moons of Jupiter, the ring of Saturn and plenty of Lunar craters. At night I scared my mother, she heared my noises on the roof, but she never prohibited my nightly observations. I am still thankful for that.

As a student I lived 15 stories high in Delft ( typical student-town) and bought a 4 cm F15 Newton at the local Wallmarkt. It had to be cheap, as I was on a students' budget. At least I had CA-free views with it. Great views! I will never forget the beautiful Pleiades in it. Never heard of aberrations.

Later on in 1980 or so I lived in an appartement in Voorburg, with my wife. Not the best views from the balcony, but it was there that we decided that the boys's days were over and a real telescope had to be bought. Telescopes were exorbitantly expensive in those days. Chinese manufacturers were still in diapers. So it became a 60 mm F15 refractor. It costed me two weeks wages as a beginning teacher. A 65mm costed twice as much! Here it is.
I put the 7X35 binoculars on it as a finder, because the build-in viewfinder was to small and dark.
002 6cmF15kopie.JPG


I joined a local public observatory ( still an active member as former chairman) and met other enthusiastic amateurs. It was there I heared from the Ringnebula for the first time and became influenced by aperture fever. So I started building 6 and 8 inch Newtonians, which I could use in the small backyard of the ( still to build) new house.

Back to M57. In 1982 I met a fellow observer who was searching for M57 too. We exchanged experiences and kept each other sharp. The circumstances under which we operated were far from ideal. We both lived in very light-polluted towns. Each time I was in the neighborhood of the famous Ring, but I couldn't spot it. Over and over again.

The help I got from the Norton's Staratlas wasn't very great. Look at a copy of it.

Norton's - Search for M57 1980.jpg


It sure doesn't give you much help. Only thing I could think of that it was hidden somewhere between Sheliak and Sulafat. It was one grey mud over there. Finally, after months of searching ( at least 7 attempts) I realised that the small grey feature I saw with averted vision, was in fact M57. I nearly fainted. So this was the way to look for faint objects in the light-polluted urban skies with my 60mm! My buddy saw it on the same night! Unfortunately he passed away too soon.

I draw the path to M57 in November 1982. I just wanted to remember it for next time. Nowadays, with my 120mm Evostar I can see the total area in one view. Every time I see it, I remember this story. See the pics.

Original sketch:
M57 in 1982 60 mm F15 refractor..jpg



Path


M 57 Ring nebula  find your way.jpg


Regular view in my 120 mm Evostar



M 57 Ring nebula  final 1.jpg



And a close up:


M 57 2023.jpg

End of story? No!

CENTRAL STAR!

Some ten years later as group leader ( analogue) photography I stood with 3 other observers in the dome of observatory Rijswijk. We were just observing with the C14. M57 stood out quite bright, it was a transparent night. The Ring was above our heads on the 20th of August 1991. We were using an exorbitant magnification for our location. Well over 700X. Not really expecting, but all of a sudden it blinked, visible with averted vision: the central star. We never got a steady direct view, it kept on blinking, but we had done it! Great!

I think it is clear why the Ringnebula has a small special place in my observers-heart and why I never skip it when I am out there!
Refractors in frequency of use : *SW Evostar 120ED F/7.5 (all round ), * Vixen 102ED F/9 (vintage), both on Vixen GPDX.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ :* TS Optics 50mm ED F4, *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets, but no GnG).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Baader Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
Amateur astronomer since 1970.
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#16

Post by kt4hx »

messier 111 wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:48 pm here are my 2 photos that I happily submit to you.
m27 and m57
m27 100 x 10 sec
m57 60 x10 sec
seestar 50
.

Outstanding Jean-Yves and thank you so much for submitting your images. Nicely done with your S50 scope my friend!
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#17

Post by kt4hx »

John Baars wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 10:56 am Back to the first time M57

My signature says "amateur since 1970". I was a 15 year old boy. I searched the sky with 7X35 binoculars ( I had worked for them in a printshop), and had a planisphere as well. A few years later I made my own telescope from a cardboard tube and a ( single!) lens (from a pair of old glasses). With it I "discovered" the moons of Jupiter, the ring of Saturn and plenty of Lunar craters. At night I scared my mother, she heared my noises on the roof, but she never prohibited my nightly observations. I am still thankful for that.

As a student I lived 15 stories high in Delft ( typical student-town) and bought a 4 cm F15 Newton at the local Wallmarkt. It had to be cheap, as I was on a students' budget. At least I had CA-free views with it. Great views! I will never forget the beautiful Pleiades in it. Never heard of aberrations.

Later on in 1980 or so I lived in an appartement in Voorburg, with my wife. Not the best views from the balcony, but it was there that we decided that the boys's days were over and a real telescope had to be bought. Telescopes were exorbitantly expensive in those days. Chinese manufacturers were still in diapers. So it became a 60 mm F15 refractor. It costed me two weeks wages as a beginning teacher. A 65mm costed twice as much! Here it is.
I put the 7X35 binoculars on it as a finder, because the build-in viewfinder was to small and dark.

002 6cmF15kopie.JPG



I joined a local public observatory ( still an active member as former chairman) and met other enthusiastic amateurs. It was there I heared from the Ringnebula for the first time and became influenced by aperture fever. So I started building 6 and 8 inch Newtonians, which I could use in the small backyard of the ( still to build) new house.

Back to M57. In 1982 I met a fellow observer who was searching for M57 too. We exchanged experiences and kept each other sharp. The circumstances under which we operated were far from ideal. We both lived in very light-polluted towns. Each time I was in the neighborhood of the famous Ring, but I couldn't spot it. Over and over again.

The help I got from the Norton's Staratlas wasn't very great. Look at a copy of it.


Norton's - Search for M57 1980.jpg



It sure doesn't give you much help. Only thing I could think of that it was hidden somewhere between Sheliak and Sulafat. It was one grey mud over there. Finally, after months of searching ( at least 7 attempts) I realised that the small grey feature I saw with averted vision, was in fact M57. I nearly fainted. So this was the way to look for faint objects in the light-polluted urban skies with my 60mm! My buddy saw it on the same night! Unfortunately he passed away too soon.

I draw the path to M57 in November 1982. I just wanted to remember it for next time. Nowadays, with my 120mm Evostar I can see the total area in one view. Every time I see it, I remember this story. See the pics.

Original sketch:

M57 in 1982 60 mm F15 refractor..jpg




Path



M 57 Ring nebula find your way.jpg



Regular view in my 120 mm Evostar




M 57 Ring nebula final 1.jpg




And a close up:



M 57 2023.jpg


End of story? No!

CENTRAL STAR!

Some ten years later as group leader ( analogue) photography I stood with 3 other observers in the dome of observatory Rijswijk. We were just observing with the C14. M57 stood out quite bright, it was a transparent night. The Ring was above our heads on the 20th of August 1991. We were using an exorbitant magnification for our location. Well over 700X. Not really expecting, but all of a sudden it blinked, visible with averted vision: the central star. We never got a steady direct view, it kept on blinking, but we had done it! Great!

I think it is clear why the Ringnebula has a small special place in my observers-heart and why I never skip it when I am out there!

John, the story behind your love for M57 is absolutely wonderful and inspiring. It conveys very well your history as an astronomer, and I deeply appreciate you sharing this with us here in my challenge thread. Your illustrations are fantastic and convey a real sense of the early frustrations you experienced in trying to track down the "Ring Nebula." Using Norton's back in the day was challenging to say the least, unless one was only looking for brighter stars. But you made the best of that situation and worked around those challenges to find your way to the object. All your effort culminated in the visual treat of seeing its elusive central star, which many have not done. Very well done my friend, and know that I deeply respect your abilities as a visual observer and sketcher of DSOs. Thank you!
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#18

Post by John Baars »

It took me some time, but here on my holiday address in Den Osse it was finally clear. Bortle 4-5. So I took out my 102mm F5 refractor and sketched M27. It took me about an hour. This morning I made the final sketch over coffee, photographed it and put it in the computer. I didn't have to correct much in the computer. The sketch was made through my 102 mm F5 Achromat. I used a 14 mm Morpheus eyepiece for 35X and a Zeiss barlow for 70X. An UHC filter was used in the diagonal of the telescope.
Enjoy!
Messier 27 Den Osse Herckenstein 28th july 2024 final II.jpg
Refractors in frequency of use : *SW Evostar 120ED F/7.5 (all round ), * Vixen 102ED F/9 (vintage), both on Vixen GPDX.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ :* TS Optics 50mm ED F4, *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets, but no GnG).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Baader Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
Amateur astronomer since 1970.
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#19

Post by kt4hx »

John Baars wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 10:49 am It took me some time, but here on my holiday address in Den Osse it was finally clear. Bortle 4-5. So I took out my 102mm F5 refractor and sketched M27. It took me about an hour. This morning I made the final sketch over coffee, photographed it and put it in the computer. I didn't have to correct much in the computer. The sketch was made through my 102 mm F5 Achromat. I used a 14 mm Morpheus eyepiece for 35X and a Zeiss barlow for 70X. An UHC filter was used in the diagonal of the telescope.
Enjoy!

Messier 27 Den Osse Herckenstein 28th july 2024 final.jpg

Outstanding John, and thank you very much for your sketch! Looks like your reduced LP on holiday certainly helped with the view.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: TSS Monthly DSO Challenge for July 2024

#20

Post by John Baars »

M71
Just in time :)

Last evening clear skies again. Not as clear as I wanted, but good enough.
To complete my contributions to the Monthly DSO Challenge, M71 was on the menu.
A bit harder than I thought, I concentrated on the individual stars in it. I know that with a bigger instrument a multitude of stars become visible, an eye-popping amount in a C14, for example. No such instrument here on my holiday location. This time,with a 102mm, some 6 stars were the limit. I used averted vision. I suppose Messier himself wouldn't have seen more, probably less. I can imagine why there was some doubt in the past, with even lesser instruments, whether M71 was a nebula, an open cluster or a globular cluster.

The earlier sketches I already had did not reflect very well what I saw. So once again, a fresh sketch.
M71 Den Osse 2024 III.jpg
Enjoy!
Refractors in frequency of use : *SW Evostar 120ED F/7.5 (all round ), * Vixen 102ED F/9 (vintage), both on Vixen GPDX.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ :* TS Optics 50mm ED F4, *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets, but no GnG).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Baader Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
Amateur astronomer since 1970.
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