Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

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Peter802
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#21

Post by Peter802 »

Great and useful article Alan.
Thank you for taking the time out to share this knowledge.
Clear Skies.
Regards,

Peter
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#22

Post by kt4hx »

Peter802 wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:00 pm Great and useful article Alan.
Thank you for taking the time out to share this knowledge.
Thanks for your kind words Peter. I hope the article proves useful for you during your observing opportunities. :)
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#23

Post by Peter802 »

Hi Alan.
It certainly gave me some food for thought. And did put some light on to my failures!!!!
Thank you
Clear Skies.
Regards,

Peter
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#24

Post by helicon »

I just re-read the article. Thanks again Alan. The impetus was trying to do some galactic observing with my relatively new 5.1" Newt, which is now my grab-n-go.
-Michael
Refractors: ES AR152 f/6.5 Achromat on Twilight II, Celestron 102mm XLT f/9.8 on Celestron Heavy Duty Alt Az mount, KOWA 90mm spotting scope
Binoculars: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70, Bushnell 10x50
Eyepieces: Various, GSO Superview, 9mm Plossl, Celestron 25mm Plossl
Camera: ZWO ASI 120
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#25

Post by kt4hx »

helicon wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:10 pm I just re-read the article. Thanks again Alan. The impetus was trying to do some galactic observing with my relatively new 5.1" Newt, which is now my grab-n-go.
Thank you Michael. Hope you find your new GNG scope a lot of fun. As you well know, no matter the aperture level, the factors I outlined in the article are important to consider.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#26

Post by turonrambar »

Hello kt4hx,

This the first time I have read your article. I know I’ll read and study your article for a long time.
Your article taught me and reinforced what I have learned in the past. Thanks for a great article
On Messier’s DSO’s list and his work. Your observing tips and tricks sure adds to your article and
must come from years of experience.

turonrambar
Meade OTA f/8 12” on a CEM120 iOptron Mount,
G10 One Shot CMOS Color Camera, QHY 2” Filter Wheel, QHY OAG, SVBony SV305 guide camera
Canon T3i 60D Prime Focus and Eyepiece Projection,
ASCOM 6.5 SP1, Windows 10 Professional
LX850 Mount, ETX125, LX200 f/10 8” GPS, Meade 6” f/4 Newton Reflector on an Equatorial Mount
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#27

Post by kt4hx »

Thank you Kip and I'm very happy that you find the article useful. For those folks starting out, there is an understandable tendency to place too much reliance upon DSO magnitude. While for very compact DSOs that can be a bit more realistic, with extended objects like galaxies, relying too heavily on its integrated magnitude can give one a misleading impression of their visibility.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#28

Post by kt4hx »

SKEtrip wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:38 pm Alan -
Very good the article traveled with you. A great resource for understanding what to look for and realistic expectations. It needs to be in a "before you start" primer & should be included with the shipment of any 8"+ dob :D

Many thanks,
Steve
I see I missed your comment here Steve, my apologies. I appreciate your kind comments. Indeed there is a lot of information that could be in a primer for those getting ready to start. So much so I fear it might scare some folks away! :lol: As you, I and a lot of folks here now know, there are so many variables associated with visual observation that can make or break our endeavors. The beginner's learning curve is significantly steep, but through experience behind the eyepiece and a sincere desire to learn, we work our way through the trial and error process to become the kind of observer that we wish to be. By gaining a deeper appreciation and understanding of the objects we observe, we are encouraged to keep going back for more. I've always been fond of saying "the more fun we have the more we learn, and the more we learn the more fun we have." A bit of circular reasoning that I truly believe. :smile:
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#29

Post by dagadget »

kt4hx wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:57 am Thank you Kip and I'm very happy that you find the article useful. For those folks starting out, there is an understandable tendency to place too much reliance upon DSO magnitude. While for very compact DSOs that can be a bit more realistic, with extended objects like galaxies, relying too heavily on its integrated magnitude can give one a misleading impression of their visibility.

This article was an awesome read and it also points out why I have always had better success with my 8 and 11 inch aperture scopes. My CPC 1100 and my current Carbon Fiber C11 are the best at finding the faint fuzzies and one night last year we had a list of over 300 targets to hunt. We nailed a lot of them but faint fuzzies sometimes are hard to find. Still the bigger the light cannon, the more likely you will see those dim photon's. :observer:
Astro-Tech AT 152EDT Ioptron GEM 45 Mount AKA FracZilla
Celestron C11 Carbon Fiber CGEM II Mount AKA Cloudzilla
Sky Watcher Mak Cas 180 Ioptron IEQ 30 AKA MoonZilla
AT 92 on IEQ 30 Pro AKA ClusterZilla
Home Made 8 inch Newtonian Reflector on Rocker Box AKA Scopezilla
Celestron 4 1/2 114 mm Newtonian Telescope 910 F/L GT Mount AKA Frankenscope.


David
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#30

Post by kt4hx »

Thanks David. For these denizens of the deep, aperture and dark skies are indeed your friend. There are some brighter ones of course that can be seen in smaller apertures, and often visible even from areas of significant LP - or at least their brightest portion, typically the core. But there are far more that simply cannot overcome higher levels of sky glow and many more yet that are out of reach of small apertures. Given that they are far and away my favorite category of DSO, there is little wonder that I favor using my 17.5 inch at our dark site. It does in fact open up a whole new universe for me. :)
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#31

Post by dagadget »

kt4hx wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:27 pm Thanks David. For these denizens of the deep, aperture and dark skies are indeed your friend. There are some brighter ones of course that can be seen in smaller apertures, and often visible even from areas of significant LP - or at least their brightest portion, typically the core. But there are far more that simply cannot overcome higher levels of sky glow and many more yet that are out of reach of small apertures. Given that they are far and away my favorite category of DSO, there is little wonder that I favor using my 17.5 inch at our dark site. It does in fact open up a whole new universe for me. :)
If I had a 17.5 I would also have a Skyshed Pod to keep it in at the darkest site I could access. so far I have looked through a couple DOB 12's and soon I will be looking through a 13.1 Looking forward to that.
Astro-Tech AT 152EDT Ioptron GEM 45 Mount AKA FracZilla
Celestron C11 Carbon Fiber CGEM II Mount AKA Cloudzilla
Sky Watcher Mak Cas 180 Ioptron IEQ 30 AKA MoonZilla
AT 92 on IEQ 30 Pro AKA ClusterZilla
Home Made 8 inch Newtonian Reflector on Rocker Box AKA Scopezilla
Celestron 4 1/2 114 mm Newtonian Telescope 910 F/L GT Mount AKA Frankenscope.


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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#32

Post by kt4hx »

dagadget wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:10 am
kt4hx wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:27 pm Thanks David. For these denizens of the deep, aperture and dark skies are indeed your friend. There are some brighter ones of course that can be seen in smaller apertures, and often visible even from areas of significant LP - or at least their brightest portion, typically the core. But there are far more that simply cannot overcome higher levels of sky glow and many more yet that are out of reach of small apertures. Given that they are far and away my favorite category of DSO, there is little wonder that I favor using my 17.5 inch at our dark site. It does in fact open up a whole new universe for me. :)
If I had a 17.5 I would also have a Skyshed Pod to keep it in at the darkest site I could access. so far I have looked through a couple DOB 12's and soon I will be looking through a 13.1 Looking forward to that.
Thanks. I have no problems keeping it in the garage and rolling it out. The wheel-barrow handles make that easy enough even for this 65 yr old. I would imagine there will come a time when it will become more of a chore, but barring unusual circumstances, I don't see that for some time yet. In the meantime I enjoy the simplicity of the dob under a dark sky. Typical SQM-L readings are around 21.3 to 21.5 (usually toward the higher end of that range), but have been as good as about 21.7. So I cannot complain in the least. :)
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#33

Post by dagadget »

kt4hx wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:13 am
dagadget wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:10 am
kt4hx wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:27 pm Thanks David. For these denizens of the deep, aperture and dark skies are indeed your friend. There are some brighter ones of course that can be seen in smaller apertures, and often visible even from areas of significant LP - or at least their brightest portion, typically the core. But there are far more that simply cannot overcome higher levels of sky glow and many more yet that are out of reach of small apertures. Given that they are far and away my favorite category of DSO, there is little wonder that I favor using my 17.5 inch at our dark site. It does in fact open up a whole new universe for me. :)
If I had a 17.5 I would also have a Skyshed Pod to keep it in at the darkest site I could access. so far I have looked through a couple DOB 12's and soon I will be looking through a 13.1 Looking forward to that.
Thanks. I have no problems keeping it in the garage and rolling it out. The wheel-barrow handles make that easy enough even for this 65 yr old. I would imagine there will come a time when it will become more of a chore, but barring unusual circumstances, I don't see that for some time yet. In the meantime I enjoy the simplicity of the dob under a dark sky. Typical SQM-L readings are around 21.3 to 21.5 (usually toward the higher end of that range), but have been as good as about 21.7. So I cannot complain in the least. :)
wow you can roll it out using the wheelbarrow handles. That sounds exceptionally nice. The SQM-L numbers like you said could be worse and with 17.5 inches that aperture overcomes a lot.
Astro-Tech AT 152EDT Ioptron GEM 45 Mount AKA FracZilla
Celestron C11 Carbon Fiber CGEM II Mount AKA Cloudzilla
Sky Watcher Mak Cas 180 Ioptron IEQ 30 AKA MoonZilla
AT 92 on IEQ 30 Pro AKA ClusterZilla
Home Made 8 inch Newtonian Reflector on Rocker Box AKA Scopezilla
Celestron 4 1/2 114 mm Newtonian Telescope 910 F/L GT Mount AKA Frankenscope.


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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#34

Post by kt4hx »

This article is a few years old now, and I thought I'd give it a bump up. Hopefully some newer observers will give it a read and it will be helpful for them as they move forward. Go get them galaxies! :icon-smile:
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#35

Post by helicon »

kt4hx wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:49 pm This article is a few years old now, and I thought I'd give it a bump up. Hopefully some newer observers will give it a read and it will be helpful for them as they move forward. Go get them galaxies! :icon-smile:
Amen Alan.
-Michael
Refractors: ES AR152 f/6.5 Achromat on Twilight II, Celestron 102mm XLT f/9.8 on Celestron Heavy Duty Alt Az mount, KOWA 90mm spotting scope
Binoculars: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70, Bushnell 10x50
Eyepieces: Various, GSO Superview, 9mm Plossl, Celestron 25mm Plossl
Camera: ZWO ASI 120
Naked Eye: Two Eyeballs
Latitude: 48.7229° N
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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#36

Post by SKEtrip »

kt4hx wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:49 pm This article is a few years old now, and I thought I'd give it a bump up. Hopefully some newer observers will give it a read and it will be helpful for them as they move forward. Go get them galaxies! :icon-smile:
It's helped more people than you'll likely ever know.
And wow - is TSS really closing in on 5 years?
AD10, SV102T, AR127 & ST80
M2 & SW AZEQ6 GT Mounts
ES82 11 18 24, ES100 5.5 9 14 20, KK Orthos, BCO's, Vixen HR 2.4, 3.4 Vortex 10X50,
ACD 75 Astro Mutt - Rest in Peace Wubby
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Why Can't I See That Galaxy?

#37

Post by kt4hx »

SKEtrip wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:47 pm
kt4hx wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:49 pm This article is a few years old now, and I thought I'd give it a bump up. Hopefully some newer observers will give it a read and it will be helpful for them as they move forward. Go get them galaxies! :icon-smile:
It's helped more people than you'll likely ever know.
And wow - is TSS really closing in on 5 years?

Thank you Steve. I certainly hope that is the case.

Yeah, we are starting to get on in years now! :icon-smile:

Glad to see you around my friend and hope all is well.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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