Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

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chris_g United States of America
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Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#1

Post by chris_g »


Hello all,

I have an opportunity to image under a class three sky. The only issue is there is a cell tower 600 feet away with a bright white hazard flashing aviation light at least 200 feet in height.

How will this affect long exposure imaging and can it be dealt with in post processing? Would it be worth setting up a remote site for several days at a time or even as a permanent imagine site. The fov is better than where I shoot now and the actual sky quality is better.

Thanks for any info that can be provided.
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KathyNS Canada
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#2

Post by KathyNS »


Lights make light pollution in two ways: glare and back-scatter.

Glare is light coming directly from the source to your optics (eye or scope). If it hits your eye, it causes loss of sensitivity to dim light (i.e. loss of night vision). If it hits the front of your scope, it can cause internal reflections in the optics and weird gradients in images. Glare can be controlled by screening: vegetation or structures to block direct light.

Back-scatter is light that is reflected off the atmosphere. This includes sky glow from city lights. In your case, it could also include closer-in back-scatter off particulates in your local air. So, if there is any dust or mist in the air, it will reflect some of the light from the tower. There isn't a whole lot you can do about back-scatter, except to negotiate with the owners of the source. In the case of navigation lights on towers, the answer will be no, so there isn't anything you can do.

If the light is narrowband (e.g. red LEDs), you could try to filter it out. Chances are that the light is broad-spectrum (incandescent bulb or white LEDs inside a red glass), in which case you are probably out of luck.
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#3

Post by chris_g »


Thanks @KathyNS you saved me some embarrassment and some funds as well. The tower's light is flashing white, some research tells me they're supposed to flash red and only white if there's lightning in the area or if there a problem with the light.

If I already owned the property it would be worth the effort to find out who owns it and have it at least flash red. Since I don't, there's no need to pursue this location any further.

Thanks again.

Clear Skies,
Chris
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#4

Post by SkyHiker »


chris_g wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 9:50 pm Thanks @KathyNS you saved me some embarrassment and some funds as well. The tower's light is flashing white, some research tells me they're supposed to flash red and only white if there's lightning in the area or if there a problem with the light.

If I already owned the property it would be worth the effort to find out who owns it and have it at least flash red. Since I don't, there's no need to pursue this location any further.

Thanks again.

Clear Skies,
Chris
The FAA has environmental regulations to prevent millions of birds getting killed by such towers. First, they had red solid lights that were the worst because they attracted and confused the birds. White flashing lights work much better, and they are supposed to get less bright the darker it gets. I didn't know this until I read your post and started looking for environmental regulations. Nice to see how much research is done on such subjects.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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chris_g United States of America
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#5

Post by chris_g »


SkyHiker wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 10:00 pm The FAA has environmental regulations to prevent millions of birds getting killed by such towers. First, they had red solid lights that were the worst because they attracted and confused the birds. White flashing lights work much better, and they are supposed to get less bright the darker it gets. I didn't know this until I read your post and started looking for environmental regulations. Nice to see how much research is done on such subjects.
Yeah, I found the same info, understandable but extremely frustrating for me at this point. The place I was looking at was perfect in every other aspect. Oh well white light saves lives and that is important. The search continues, and I have learned something new.
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#6

Post by SkyHiker »


chris_g wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 3:55 pm
SkyHiker wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 10:00 pm The FAA has environmental regulations to prevent millions of birds getting killed by such towers. First, they had red solid lights that were the worst because they attracted and confused the birds. White flashing lights work much better, and they are supposed to get less bright the darker it gets. I didn't know this until I read your post and started looking for environmental regulations. Nice to see how much research is done on such subjects.
Yeah, I found the same info, understandable but extremely frustrating for me at this point. The place I was looking at was perfect in every other aspect. Oh well white light saves lives and that is important. The search continues, and I have learned something new.
Kathy did not advise against your plan, just mentioned that you have to worry about glare and back-scatter. If you don't aim your telescope at the tower, then glare is not a problem. If there is little air pollution and/or moisture in the air, the backscatter might not be too bad. It could be worth a shot.

I remember that you take mostly open cluster images. For those targets you don't need super good skies. You may be able to spend less time on the target, but you pay for it by having to spend more time setting up at an unfamiliar place without a power grid.

The benefit would be for nebulae that you can't image at home. I don't know what Bortle level you have at home (I'm at 6 myself) but looking at your images I have a feeling that you process too much nebulosity out. It would be good to try imaging nebulae with proper processing, then compare it with what you can get at a different location. Otherwise, for open clusters, you might as well stay home.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#7

Post by Bigzmey »


My astro club dark site listed as Bortle 4 but we have to deal with two light domes in NW and SW, and multiple flood lights in the valley below which for some reason aimed straight at our site. Yet, club members manage to get good quality images of nebulae and galaxies.

I would take Bortle 3 with a single light in a heart beat. Just set your scope opposite direction. :D Extra long dew shield and/or some sort of screen would help to.
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#8

Post by Juno16 »


Bigz has a good point for sure.
A bit also depends on what Kathy was talking about with backscatter. In my area, with all of the dew condensation in the atmosphere just after dark, white flashes light up the whole sky.
As a matter of fact, my resident tower at 0.6 miles away and 408’ high started flashing bright white strobes at night instead of the usual non-obtrusive red about 6 nights ago. The entire sky was trashed after dark and looked as though flash bulbs we’re going off.
Today, I started calling the business that used the tower (a local isp/ cable tv company) and after several calls found out that the tower was owned by CTI Towers.
I called them (I believe they’re based in North Carolina), left a message and got a callback this afternoon.
They thanked me for letting them know. The lights are not supposed to flash white at night. They are working to arrange a local business to repair the lights.
Great news!
I was very concerned about my AP hobby!
Hopefully it will be repaired soon. The young lady that I spoke with assured me of that. I’ve got their number now!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
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Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#9

Post by Bigzmey »


Juno16 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 12:27 am Bigz has a good point for sure.
A bit also depends on what Kathy was talking about with backscatter. In my area, with all of the dew condensation in the atmosphere just after dark, white flashes light up the whole sky.
As a matter of fact, my resident tower at 0.6 miles away and 408’ high started flashing bright white strobes at night instead of the usual non-obtrusive red about 6 nights ago. The entire sky was trashed after dark and looked as though flash bulbs we’re going off.
Today, I started calling the business that used the tower (a local isp/ cable tv company) and after several calls found out that the tower was owned by CTI Towers.
I called them (I believe they’re based in North Carolina), left a message and got a callback this afternoon.
They thanked me for letting them know. The lights are not supposed to flash white at night. They are working to arrange a local business to repair the lights.
Great news!
I was very concerned about my AP hobby!
Hopefully it will be repaired soon. The young lady that I spoke with assured me of that. I’ve got their number now!
The overall effect will depend on the atmospheric condition for sure. Moist air does tend to scatter the light more.

That's a relief that CTI Towers addressing your situation Jim.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
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Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#10

Post by Juno16 »


Bigzmey wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 1:20 am
Juno16 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 12:27 am Bigz has a good point for sure.
A bit also depends on what Kathy was talking about with backscatter. In my area, with all of the dew condensation in the atmosphere just after dark, white flashes light up the whole sky.
As a matter of fact, my resident tower at 0.6 miles away and 408’ high started flashing bright white strobes at night instead of the usual non-obtrusive red about 6 nights ago. The entire sky was trashed after dark and looked as though flash bulbs we’re going off.
Today, I started calling the business that used the tower (a local isp/ cable tv company) and after several calls found out that the tower was owned by CTI Towers.
I called them (I believe they’re based in North Carolina), left a message and got a callback this afternoon.
They thanked me for letting them know. The lights are not supposed to flash white at night. They are working to arrange a local business to repair the lights.
Great news!
I was very concerned about my AP hobby!
Hopefully it will be repaired soon. The young lady that I spoke with assured me of that. I’ve got their number now!
The overall effect will depend on the atmospheric condition for sure. Moist air does tend to scatter the light more.

That's a relief that CTI Towers addressing your situation Jim.

Surely is Bigz!
Just goes to show that It can still pay off to give things a good hard try.
Thanks my friend!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
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Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#11

Post by Juno16 »


Juno16 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 12:27 am Bigz has a good point for sure.
A bit also depends on what Kathy was talking about with backscatter. In my area, with all of the dew condensation in the atmosphere just after dark, white flashes light up the whole sky.
As a matter of fact, my resident tower at 0.6 miles away and 408’ high started flashing bright white strobes at night instead of the usual non-obtrusive red about 6 nights ago. The entire sky was trashed after dark and looked as though flash bulbs we’re going off.
Today, I started calling the business that used the tower (a local isp/ cable tv company) and after several calls found out that the tower was owned by CTI Towers.
I called them (I believe they’re based in North Carolina), left a message and got a callback this afternoon.
They thanked me for letting them know. The lights are not supposed to flash white at night. They are working to arrange a local business to repair the lights.
Great news!
I was very concerned about my AP hobby!
Hopefully it will be repaired soon. The young lady that I spoke with assured me of that. I’ve got their number now!

Update on my flashing white tower lights.

I waited three weeks and the white strobe flashing in the tower continued at night.
I went back on the CTI website and found the name of the project manager and account manager for “my”
tower and sent them an email.
Last night the tower was back to its normal red lights. Yay!
Not sure if it was coincidence or my email, but I was thrilled to open the door and see the red light on the tower again!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#12

Post by JayTee »


Juno16 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:37 am Last night the tower was back to its normal red lights. Yay!
Double YAY!
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#13

Post by Juno16 »


JayTee wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:47 pm
Juno16 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:37 am Last night the tower was back to its normal red lights. Yay!
Double YAY!

It pays to be a pia!

I'm fired up about doing some imaging, but unfortunately the weather is pulling it's usual antics.
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#14

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I am one night away from having the Obsy completely set for imaging. I just have to finalize the PA, then I'm ready to start... again!
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

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chris_g United States of America
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#15

Post by chris_g »


Well folks,

I found another place, same quality of sky, Bortle 4, almost a 3, SQM is 21.63, artificial brightness is 66.3 and no flashing lights, white or red, any where near.

We're moving in about a month. My search is over for my piece of the dark sky.

Clear Skies,
Chris
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
Image OTA: EvoStar ED80, WO Z73, C8-A XLT
Mount: EQ6-R Pro Pier, AZ-EQ5 Pro Pier
Guide OTA: Orion 60mm, WO 32mm, ZWO OAG, SV501P
Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
EAA Cam: SVBony SV705C
EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
Session Control: Mini PC/Win11 Pro, APT 4.1, PHD2 2.6.10
Processing: PixInsight, DSS 4.2.6, Adobe PS CC, Astronomy Tools Action Set, Star Spikes Pro
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JayTee United States of America
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#16

Post by JayTee »


Not only YAY, but VERY YAY!
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Graeme1858 Great Britain
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#17

Post by Graeme1858 »


Sounds ideal Chris.

I hope the move goes well.

Graeme
______________________________________________
Celestron 9.25 f10 SCT, f6.3FR, CGX mount.
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC
ZWO EFW, ZWO OAG, ASI220MM Mini.
APM 11x70 ED APO Binoculars.

https://www.averywayobservatory.co.uk/
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chris_g United States of America
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#18

Post by chris_g »


JayTee wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:31 am Not only YAY, but VERY YAY!
Graeme1858 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:13 am Sounds ideal Chris.

I hope the move goes well.

Graeme
Thank you both.

Yes, it's about as close as I can get to ideal in Louisiana, my wife doesn't want to move to Rachel, Nevada! :alien: Bortle1! I haven't seen fireflies in close to 50 years, they are all over the place at dusk. I'm looking forward to starting the setup of my permanent observatory. If everything goes well, that should happen around the 7th of next month. I'll start a new thread once that starts. :icon-smile:

Clear Skies,
Chris
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
Image OTA: EvoStar ED80, WO Z73, C8-A XLT
Mount: EQ6-R Pro Pier, AZ-EQ5 Pro Pier
Guide OTA: Orion 60mm, WO 32mm, ZWO OAG, SV501P
Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
EAA Cam: SVBony SV705C
EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
Session Control: Mini PC/Win11 Pro, APT 4.1, PHD2 2.6.10
Processing: PixInsight, DSS 4.2.6, Adobe PS CC, Astronomy Tools Action Set, Star Spikes Pro
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Graeme1858 Great Britain
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Re: Hope and how to deal with a flashing light at 200 feet

#19

Post by Graeme1858 »


chris_g wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:45 pm I'm looking forward to starting the setup of my permanent observatory. If everything goes well, that should happen around the 7th of next month.

It's the way to go Chris!

Graeme
______________________________________________
Celestron 9.25 f10 SCT, f6.3FR, CGX mount.
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC
ZWO EFW, ZWO OAG, ASI220MM Mini.
APM 11x70 ED APO Binoculars.

https://www.averywayobservatory.co.uk/
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