Leveling your mount

[Mirrorgirl]

HI there

I'm struggling a bit with my alignment my telescope just would not point to the right stars last night I did the polar alignment bang on and everything else correct, the only thing that was not correct was my mount Levelling the bubble was not in the centre do you think this is why it would not point directly on the stars and was far off ?

any help would be greatly appreciated

Thank you

Rhoda

[bobharmony]

Leveling is overrated in my opinion. Polar alignment is much more important. After completing the polar alignment, you generally need to redo the alignment of the mount/scope combination as adjusting the alt/az knobs throws any initial goto alignment off.

Having said that I have gone through the effort of leveling my mount in the past. I used a "real" level on the mount head because the bubble level on the mount was not calibrated well and centering it didn't actually level the mount.

My routine for setting up for AP these days is to 1) position the mount legs in the spots I have marked for them, 2) putting the mount in the home position, 3) powering the mount on and doing a Celestron "Quick-Align" (basically no alignment at all), 4) polar alignment, and finally 5) using plate-solving to align the mount to the sky. The whole process takes about 15 minutes.

Bob

[chris_g]

Leveling the mount is overrated in my opinion as well. It just makes polar alignment easier. If your polar alignment is good then there is something wrong with the pointing model.

Here's the post when I asked basically the same question.

viewtopic.php?t=199

What kind of star alignment did you do after you polar aligned?

Clear Skies,
Chris

[Mirrorgirl]

Leveling the mount is overrated in my opinion as well. It just makes polar alignment easier. If your polar alignment is good then there is something wrong with the pointing model.

What kind of star alignment did you do after you polar aligned?

Clear Skies,
Chris

A three star, i think i never got the polar star in target i think it was the wrong star i will try again tonight and let you guys know how i get on

Thanks though

[JayTee]

Most mounts and I think yours is included need a goto alignment before you can do a polar alignment and if you have physically moved the mount during the polar alignment then you'll have to redo the goto alignment. This should fix the problem.

Close to level is close enough.

[Razz]

I don't have anywhere near enough experience to say if leveling the mount matters or not. What I can say is that I don't trust the bubble levels. I have 2 mounts, the Az/Gte and EQ6-R Pro, and no matter how I place them, the bubble seems to always be centered. Now, I haven't done extreme stupid angles to test them, but I just set them up and look at the bubble. It's always centered. Either I'm extremely good/lucky every time or they are not accurate. I actually bought a cheap spirit level to check this out.

[chartram]

Hi Rhoda,

Not sure if you got this sorted, but have you verified that you have the right date/time/location entered into your mount? And equally important, verify that DST is set to NO or OFF. If you’re using the SynScan hand controller, I’ve noticed every once in a while that when connecting thru the hand controller to USB interface, that it would randomly change the date/time to something completely crazy, like WAAY off, which made pointing, imaging etc impossible. My fix was to reset the mount, re-enter all the date/time/location info, align it, then after star alignment plug the USB cable into the HC first and plug into the USB hub last before connecting your computer to the mount.

Not sure if EQMOD is compatible with your mount. If it is, it’s well worth it to take the HC completely out of the equation.

As for leveling, the bubble level IMO is ‘close enough’ to be fine. I don’t think leveling is overrated as long as the bubble is somewhere in the circle. But this doesn’t sound like a leveling issue, it sounds like the date time and location info in your HC may have glitched.

Mike

[Mirrorgirl]

Hi Rhoda,

Not sure if you got this sorted, but have you verified that you have the right date/time/location entered into your mount? And equally important, verify that DST is set to NO or OFF. If you’re using the SynScan hand controller, I’ve noticed every once in a while that when connecting thru the hand controller to USB interface, that it would randomly change the date/time to something completely crazy, like WAAY off, which made pointing, imaging etc impossible. My fix was to reset the mount, re-enter all the date/time/location info, align it, then after star alignment plug the USB cable into the HC first and plug into the USB hub last before connecting your computer to the mount.

Not sure if EQMOD is compatible with your mount. If it is, it’s well worth it to take the HC completely out of the equation.

As for leveling, the bubble level IMO is ‘close enough’ to be fine. I don’t think leveling is overrated as long as the bubble is somewhere in the circle. But this doesn’t sound like a leveling issue, it sounds like the date time and location info in your HC may have glitched.

Mike

Hi there Mike

No I don’t have it sorted yet but probably you can help me, this should be set to one over 50 I don’t know how it’s slid down but if it was not correct would that cause the telescope to point in the opposite direction? Here’s the image

Thanks Mike

Rhoda

[KathyNS]

Hi there Mike

No I don’t have it sorted yet but probably you can help me, this should be set to one over 50 I don’t know how it’s slid down but if it was not correct would that cause the telescope to point in the opposite direction? Here’s the image

D8620328-D06E-4066-AB83-C018FE2ABBCA.jpeg

Thanks Mike

Rhoda

Based on your location, the elevation should be showing slightly over 50 as you say, not just over 40. Those dials are notoriously inaccurate, but a 10 degree error in the dial is a bit much. Your mount would have to be at least 10 degrees out of level for that to work. Even an "eyeball" level would be more accurate than that. So it probably got that way by accident.

An error in the elevation would affect your polar alignment. And an error in polar alignment would affect your goto alignment.

However, with the large goto errors you have reported, I suspect that something else is going on. Can you find an astronomy club near you where someone could look over your shoulder as you set up to see what the problem is?

[Mirrorgirl]

Hi there Mike

No I don’t have it sorted yet but probably you can help me, this should be set to one over 50 I don’t know how it’s slid down but if it was not correct would that cause the telescope to point in the opposite direction? Here’s the image

D8620328-D06E-4066-AB83-C018FE2ABBCA.jpeg

Thanks Mike

Rhoda

Based on your location, the elevation should be showing slightly over 50 as you say, not just over 40. Those dials are notoriously inaccurate, but a 10 degree error in the dial is a bit much. Your mount would have to be at least 10 degrees out of level for that to work. Even an "eyeball" level would be more accurate than that. So it probably got that way by accident.

An error in the elevation would affect your polar alignment. And an error in polar alignment would affect your goto alignment.

However, with the large goto errors you have reported, I suspect that something else is going on. Can you find an astronomy club near you where someone could look over your shoulder as you set up to see what the problem is?

yes I will Kathy it's just that i have a little boy to look after i struggle with my sleep just taking the scope out at night i just won't be able to do it, do you think if it don't work i should get it repaired or just get a new mount and start from fresh?

thanks

Rhoda

[Mirrorgirl]

Hi there Mike

No I don’t have it sorted yet but probably you can help me, this should be set to one over 50 I don’t know how it’s slid down but if it was not correct would that cause the telescope to point in the opposite direction? Here’s the image

D8620328-D06E-4066-AB83-C018FE2ABBCA.jpeg

Thanks Mike

Rhoda

Based on your location, the elevation should be showing slightly over 50 as you say, not just over 40. Those dials are notoriously inaccurate, but a 10 degree error in the dial is a bit much. Your mount would have to be at least 10 degrees out of level for that to work. Even an "eyeball" level would be more accurate than that. So it probably got that way by accident.

An error in the elevation would affect your polar alignment. And an error in polar alignment would affect your goto alignment.

However, with the large goto errors you have reported, I suspect that something else is going on. Can you find an astronomy club near you where someone could look over your shoulder as you set up to see what the problem is?

Is this all correct Kathy?

Thank you Kath

Rhoda

[KathyNS]

yes I will Kathy it's just that i have a little boy to look after i struggle with my sleep just taking the scope out at night i just won't be able to do it, do you think if it don't work i should get it repaired or just get a new mount and start from fresh?

thanks

Rhoda

Is this all correct Kathy?

Thank you Kath

Rhoda

That's got to be tough, finding the time with a little kid!

Unfortunately, we haven't really established if there is a problem with the mount. That's why it would help if an experienced observer could take a look at it. Exchanging it would likely help it the problem was a defective mount, or it might accomplish nothing, and just further delay being able to use it effectively.

Your handset settings all look correct. The only ones left that could be a problem are the date and time. Note that Synscan handsets accept time in 24-hour format and date in "American" format: mm/dd/yyyy. It is easy for non-Americans to get the date format wrong, since no one else uses that format regularly.

[Mirrorgirl]

yes I will Kathy it's just that i have a little boy to look after i struggle with my sleep just taking the scope out at night i just won't be able to do it, do you think if it don't work i should get it repaired or just get a new mount and start from fresh?

thanks

Rhoda

Is this all correct Kathy?

Thank you Kath

Rhoda

That's got to be tough, finding the time with a little kid!

Unfortunately, we haven't really established if there is a problem with the mount. That's why it would help if an experienced observer could take a look at it. Exchanging it would likely help it the problem was a defective mount, or it might accomplish nothing, and just further delay being able to use it effectively.

Your handset settings all look correct. The only ones left that could be a problem are the date and time. Note that Synscan handsets accept time in 24-hour format and date in "American" format: mm/dd/yyyy. It is easy for non-Americans to get the date format wrong, since no one else uses that format regularly.

Hi Kathy

Do you know if this should be set to 0 or 12 once in home position?

Thanks

Rhoda

[KathyNS]

Hi Kathy

Do you know if this should be set to 0 or 12 once in home position?

A8AFBF03-B59C-4A37-A54C-C62D0354776D.jpeg

Thanks

Rhoda

That is the RA setting circle. You use it for finding targets without using the goto feature of the mount. You first point the scope at a known object, and get it centred. Then set the setting circle to the known RA coordinate of the object. Now, you can point at another object using the new object's coordinates on the setting circles.

A weak point with mounts of this design is that the RA setting circle has to be manually re-set for every target, because the circle does not keep time with the mount's tracking. (The declination setting circle does not have this problem: it is set once and never moves again for the life of the mount.)

In the Home position, the scope is aimed at the celestial pole, which has no RA value. So the position of the RA setting circle is meaningless in the Home position.

The RA setting circle can be used to position the polar scope reticle for polar alignment. However, it seems that your polar alignments are good, so don't change what you are doing.

[Mirrorgirl]

Hi Kathy

Do you know if this should be set to 0 or 12 once in home position?

A8AFBF03-B59C-4A37-A54C-C62D0354776D.jpeg

Thanks

Rhoda

That is the RA setting circle. You use it for finding targets without using the goto feature of the mount. You first point the scope at a known object, and get it centred. Then set the setting circle to the known RA coordinate of the object. Now, you can point at another object using the new object's coordinates on the setting circles.

A weak point with mounts of this design is that the RA setting circle has to be manually re-set for every target, because the circle does not keep time with the mount's tracking. (The declination setting circle does not have this problem: it is set once and never moves again for the life of the mount.)

In the Home position, the scope is aimed at the celestial pole, which has no RA value. So the position of the RA setting circle is meaningless in the Home position.

The RA setting circle can be used to position the polar scope reticle for polar alignment. However, it seems that your polar alignments are good, so don't change what you are doing.

Thanks Kathy for that.

Rhoda

[gcisko]

I hope you have those issues sorted out. FWIW - My experience with all this is that the mount leveling didn't matter when I do a StarSense alignment - but it can use up to 100 stars for the alignment. That is for Alt-Az and even when using a wedge.

Without a StarSense when you do a 3 star alignment it only uses 2 stars anyway, and I believe for very long exposures an unleveled mount will be seen in the results.

For a Polar alignment with a Polar alignment scope, it seems leveling the mount with a bubble level is good enough. Even after aligning with the polar alignment scope, I am still off when I use the "polar alignment" tool with my ASI-AIR. And as Kathy said, the indicator on polar scopes for setting your latitude can be used for general guidance, not exact. I live in Chicago at 42 degrees north, my mount is currently set at ~35 degrees.

Merry xmas!

[Mirrorgirl]

I hope you have those issues sorted out. FWIW - My experience with all this is that the mount leveling didn't matter when I do a StarSense alignment - but it can use up to 100 stars for the alignment. That is for Alt-Az and even when using a wedge.

Without a StarSense when you do a 3 star alignment it only uses 2 stars anyway, and I believe for very long exposures an unleveled mount will be seen in the results.

For a Polar alignment with a Polar alignment scope, it seems leveling the mount with a bubble level is good enough. Even after aligning with the polar alignment scope, I am still off when I use the "polar alignment" tool with my ASI-AIR. And as Kathy said, the indicator on polar scopes for setting your latitude can be used for general guidance, not exact. I live in Chicago at 42 degrees north, my mount is currently set at ~35 degrees.

Merry xmas!

I sorted the issue out thanks sorry you never shown up on my messages thanks though

[Richard]

Glad you got it sorted , most if not all EQ mounts still have the elevation etc circles really who uses them ? , even on a small EQ 1 I use my phone , but skywatcher software perhaps needs to be updated