Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

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ewomack United States of America
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Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#1

Post by ewomack »


Things have a way of becoming more interesting. After viewing the luminous moon, along with some of the easier planets (Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn), in a heavily light polluted area, my attention and desire has now turned towards deeper sky objects. Nearly every source that passed my gaze has suggested that the Pleaides make a great first DSO target. Others either wrote or told me that "they stick out so much, they practically find themselves." How could I resist such juicy fruit hanging so low? As the almost disturbingly warm October evening weather hit me, I half expected the Pleiades to do the same once outside.

Stellarium helped determine where I should look in the sky (this might be Quixotic, but I enjoy having to work a little to locate something in the sky, but that attitude will likely change the deeper into the sky I delve). Luckily, on that night the cluster sat directly above the gleaming Aldebaran. I definitely know that star, it took me for a vapid fool not too long ago. Now friends again - how long can one stay angry at a ball of fusion - without aid or instrument, I located Aldebaran easily, which Mars, sitting just below to the northeast, made even easier. So, the Pleiades should just reach out and shake me, then, I assumed. Scanning above Aldebaran revealing nothing. A magnitude 0.05 Capella sat directly to the northeast, so I knew not to go beyond that landmark. Nothing. I didn't see a thing. No little glistening splotch of light appeared anywhere. So, out came the 10x50 binoculars for a look. Within 30 seconds, the familiar kite-shaped pattern of the Pleiades greeted me in the view. My sanity somewhat restored, I set up the tripod and took out the 25x70 binoculars for a better look. In another 30 seconds, a new Pleiades appeared. This time the kite had many friends. Stars flooded the view in an amazing aesthetic dance that had me staring until my eyes watered and my back began to ache. Once again, I attempted a mobile phone picture. To my surprise, it picked up the brightest stars (below).

Pleaides.png


Obviously, the picture doesn't even deserve to be associated with the sight that I saw in the binoculars. But it at least resembled it. I'm guessing that the main stars pictured, "the kite," include Maia, Electra, Merope, and Alcyone, with Atlas and Pleione dangling below. More staring at the picture revealed a dim triangle of stars to the right of Atlas and a small trail of stars snaking rightwards directly below Merope. A few others emerged above Maia, maybe Taygeta and Celaeno? Once back inside, it all lined up with Stellarium, so I could confirm my first DSO and Messier object find. Though it all sits at a relatively close 442 light years away, the distance still boggles the mind with a vast awe unavailable in other hobbies. Someday I hope to have astrophotographic equipment that could capture what I actually witnessed. Someday.

One thing still perplexed me. Even Wikipedia claims the Pleiades as "the most obvious cluster to the naked eye in the night sky." But it didn't appear for me at all without magnification. My eyes still correct to 20/15, so I don't think that was a factor. So, once away from the binoculars and knowing exactly where the cluster should appear, I looked again. For a while, I saw nothing. Then I noticed that if I slightly deflected my vision I saw a little bundle of light where I had previously not seen one. After looking continuously for maybe 30 more seconds, the form began to appear, though only very dimly. It took maybe a minute or two before it appeared and looked "correct." So, perhaps previously my night vision hadn't fully adjusted? I don't blame it, the location from which I viewed has intense ground lights and typically appears as a Bortle 8 or 9 in light pollution applications. DSOs may prove extremely challenging with such glaring impediments. Especially if the one that supposedly requires the least effort to find actually requires an effort to find. I may have to search for darker skies with far fewer lights beaming from the ground.

That thought sealed itself in my mind when I then saw a police car pull up next to me. First some background. The land on which I stood belongs to the building in which I own one of the condominiums. It's not a public park that closes, nor someone else's private property. It's just a little peninsula of land containing a few trees that sits between two city roads. Houses sit to the south and a food wholesaler to the north. I had stood in that same spot 5 other times without attracting any attention, but I figured that soon I would become an object of apprehension for someone living nearby. That time had apparently come. The officer rolled down his window and said "it looks like you're looking at stars." I said "yes," he replied "someone called in on you," and I said "I feared that might happen someday." Then he asked me if I was having any luck and I pointed to Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. I apologized to him and he said "thanks" and drove away. He didn't even leave the car. He was extremely friendly. I had planned to look for Uranus near the Pleiades and NGC 869 and NGC 884 above Capella, but the bright lights and the realization that someone found me disturbing enough to call the police compelled me to pack up and head inside.

After feeling a little bummed for a while, it dawned on me that perhaps I just need to find a better place to view the sky. Honestly, I never feel 100% safe outside at night in the area anyway, and the conditions seem beyond poor for viewing anything but the brightest objects. A local Astronomy club has some dedicated and darker land about half an hour away, so I thought perhaps the time had come to look into that option.

In the end, I told myself that at least I had seen the Pleiades.
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#2

Post by KathyNS »


Sorry to hear that your observing was disturbed and prematurely terminated.

If that had been me, and the cop had been okay with me being there, as your was, I would have stayed just to give the message to whoever called it in that I had been checked out and found to be okay, and not to call it in again. Leaving right after the cop had talked to me would have given the caller the message that I didn't belong there and that they were right to call.
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#3

Post by Lady Fraktor »


I agree with Kathy, if you should not have been there the police would have moved you on.
Do not let yourself be chased off of a good site because someone called the police.

Good that you discovered that Melotte 22 is sometimes easier to sight with averted vision.
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#4

Post by ewomack »


I should have mentioned that I didn't leave the site right away, just earlier than planned. I probably stayed put for another 15 - 20 minutes after the officer left. Plus, it's not a good site, so I left partially due to the "unexpected visit" and partially due to my frustrations with the site itself. The combination of the two have led me to consider other, better sites. Though the site works fine for the moon and planets, it's far too bright for DSOs. A chemical business to the northeast keeps their ground lights on all night and they create quite a bit of light in an already poor location. At least four or five street lights also flood the area. It's in the middle of an urban neighborhood. I've only used it because it's right outside my door. Plus, the general area has experienced quite a bit of crime recently and the police are justifiably on guard. A less friendly officer might not have treated me so kindly. Given everything, it's probably time to move on.
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#5

Post by kt4hx »


Glad you were able to pick up the Pleiades with the naked eye finally. Your use of averted vision turned the trick for you, as the more sensitive areas of the eye are then turned on the object making it visible to you. If your skies are Bortle 8 to 9, then observing DSOs will be tough. Not impossible, but difficult as their light must overcome the brighter sky and poorer contrast. Having that much light around you really has a negative impact, and you certainly can never achieve any depth of dark adaptation. One thing you might try to to is to drape a dark cloth over your head when you look into the binoculars. This will block the glaring from ground lights and improve your contrast in the eyepiece (except for what enters into the main objective lenses).

Of course getting away from that area to observe, when and if you can, will be a true eye-opening experience for you. Also, is it possible for your to gain access to the roof of your building? If you can, that will be beneficial, as it should put you above the ground based lighting and block most if not all of it. It doesn't help with the general sky glow from all the light in your area that goes upward into the sky, but if you can get out of the glaring of all the ground lights, it does make a definite difference in terms of dark adaptation and what you can see. Good luck to you and keep that positive attitude. Your endeavors will be rewarded.
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#6

Post by Bigzmey »


Congrats on catching Pleiades! This is one of my favorites. Finding good safe spot for observing is critical for this hobby. If you have an astronomy club dark site just half an hour away I would strongly suggest to give it a shot. Clubs typically have outreach star parties to attract new members, so you can take a look without committing to it.

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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#7

Post by gregl »


I recall a post on one of the other astro forums wherein the o.p. told of a neighbor calling the cops because the dobsonian scope looked like a piece of artillery and said neighbor thought the perp was going to launch a mortar.

Our club's dark site is patrolled regularly, which is good, except that the officer on duty always pulls into the large parking lot with a sweeping turn that paints his headlights all over us, killing our night vision. But we always invite whoever it is to come over for a look.
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#8

Post by notFritzArgelander »


gregl wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:28 am I recall a post on one of the other astro forums wherein the o.p. told of a neighbor calling the cops because the dobsonian scope looked like a piece of artillery and said neighbor thought the perp was going to launch a mortar.

Our club's dark site is patrolled regularly, which is good, except that the officer on duty always pulls into the large parking lot with a sweeping turn that paints his headlights all over us, killing our night vision. But we always invite whoever it is to come over for a look.
Maybe that was me but my details differed slightly. There was a skateboard park next to where I had a condominimum (sp intentional ;) ). I had set up a 10" equatorial (Orion on Atlas) and a 120mm f7.5 Celestron achromat on the CG5. Often set up there and was never bothered before or since but on THIS night El Presidente (George W) was in town and staying in a hotel a mortars throw away. It was during a nice Mars opposition and I had had some stunning views. There was a big bowl for the skateboarders and I was set up in the center of it to get shielding from lights. I'm thinking that since I was not visible from street level, maybe someone overhead called me in. ;) Anyway I was moved on and returned to this site after Prexy left.
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#9

Post by seigell »


I too had an Observing Night run-in with Law Enforcement. I was years ago and I was out at the Local Dark Site about 50 miles SE of Phoenix (screened by a line of hills it knocks the Supernova that is PHX down to only about Bortle 5), and it being just after the New Moon Weekend I was out there by myself. Sometime after Midnight, I was suddenly lit-up by a Spotlight from a very quiet (not quite stealth silent) Black Helicopter and a booming "DO NOT MOVE!" overhead. About 10 minutes later, two Border Patrol trucks rolled-up with lights a-flashing.
One of the BP Agents commented a few minutes later: "I told them there were Star Watchers out here..." then "but I thought you guys were only weekend warriors."
The PHX Astro Clubs continued to use the site for several years, as long as nobody setup a "Camper" - Tent or RV.
Then the previous year BLM decided to lock the gate overnight, although this was the Trailhead for a segment of the Arizona Trail that crosses the Area Desert such that in Summer it is ONLY safe to hike if started well before Sunrise or finished well after Sunset (go figure).
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#10

Post by jrkirkham »


The same sort of thing happens with another of my hobbies, photography. I joke that I have been stopped and questioned more times since I took up photography as a hobby than when I was a teen and should have been stopped and questioned.

I have a question about the BLM land. Can you get a pass for it? I am thinking of Tonto National Forest near Phoenix. They lock the gates, but the locks are combination locks and before going out we get the combination.
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#11

Post by seigell »


jrkirkham wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:53 pm The same sort of thing happens with another of my hobbies, photography. I joke that I have been stopped and questioned more times since I took up photography as a hobby than when I was a teen and should have been stopped and questioned.
Unfortunately, too many Police (wanting to be Anti-Terrorist Heros) think that every building taller than a manhole cover might be scouted for destruction. (Often it's the manhole cover hiding the important infrastructure...)
jrkirkham wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:53 pm I have a question about the BLM land. Can you get a pass for it? I am thinking of Tonto National Forest near Phoenix. They lock the gates, but the locks are combination locks and before going out we get the combination.
Most BLM Lands (like most Forest Service Lands) are open for use without need of Permit (unless for Commercial Use). Until the local Managing Ranger decides otherwise.
As for PicketPost Trailhead (Tonto NF - not BLM - my mistake), I've not resided in PHX for a number of years even though I've maintained my EVAC membership and still hear of recent Access Issues. I hadn't heard that EVAC or SAC had reached any Access Agreement, but perhaps they have done so for the current Windy Point site out at Lake Roosevelt.
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#12

Post by John Baars »


Nice story. Thanks!
I suppose many amateurs have similar stories. At least I have!
The Pleiades are barely visible here with direct vision too. Three of four stars that's all. Bortle 8 / 8.5
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#13

Post by helicon »


John Baars wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:27 pm Nice story. Thanks!
I suppose many amateurs have similar stories. At least I have!
The Pleiades are barely visible here with direct vision too. Three of four stars that's all. Bortle 8 / 8.5

Bless the telescope! Yesterday I counted/estimated them at low magnification with my 102mm refractor: Well over eighty stars :Astronomer1: :D
Terrific John. I have yet to see the Pleiades this season from my new digs, there is a deck on the third storey that I am using for observations, around Bortle 5 or so. I had thought 4 but there are localized ground lights which cause some problems (no streetlights in the valley).
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#14

Post by pakarinen »


jrkirkham wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:53 pm The same sort of thing happens with another of my hobbies, photography. I joke that I have been stopped and questioned more times since I took up photography as a hobby than when I was a teen and should have been stopped and questioned.
Same goes for railfanning / trainspotting / railroad photography.
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#15

Post by Makuser »


Hi Ewomack. The Pleiades are always a treat to view and you did a nice job on your capture with just a cell phone. I too had a brief encounter with the police about 4 years ago. I went out around our curved street to the corner to get away from the trees to view a meteor shower near the radiant. I had no telescope or binoculars as the wide field of the naked eye is better at capturing more of them. As I was approaching the corner intersection I saw a person walking quickly but erratically. I had just started gazing and counting the meteors when a police car stopped the officer got out. I thought; "Uh-oh, now what?" I told him that I was observing the meteor shower and pointed to that sky area and then also pointed to my house and said that I lived there. He then asked me if I saw anyone on foot. I told him that just as I was arriving I saw the person heading east. He said that there was just an attempted house break-in and then he left in his patrol car in that direction. Sometimes you never know what you are going to encounter at night outside by yourself. Thanks for your well written and interesting read post Ewomack, don't give up, and keep watching the night skies. :Astronomer1:
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#16

Post by gregl »


pakarinen wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:48 pm
jrkirkham wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:53 pm The same sort of thing happens with another of my hobbies, photography. I joke that I have been stopped and questioned more times since I took up photography as a hobby than when I was a teen and should have been stopped and questioned.
Same goes for railfanning / trainspotting / railroad photography.

Having been a professional photographer and photojournalist, I could tell you some stories about that. But I'll bet if you did all this while wearing an orange vest, a hard hat, and carrying a clip board, no one would bother you.
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

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Post by pakarinen »


Faded bluejeans and workboots sometimes help. :wink:
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

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Post by Lady Fraktor »


Hopefully you can manage to find a site close by that feels safe and is convenient for you, enjoy the views when you are able.
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

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Post by gcisko »


ewomack wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 9:21 pm A less friendly officer might not have treated me so kindly. Given everything, it's probably time to move on.
You are probably right about it being time to move on - especially if it isn't a good site. I had something similar happen at a local school several years ago. My astronomy club was providing an observing event for the school. Everything went fine - there were a bunch of students and parents that had a great time.

After the event, I was the last one there with the club president when a security guard rolls up. Even though we explained what we were doing he still was looking like he wanted to bust us. I am not sure why, but we did leave and that was that. But it just amazes me how a guy can roll up on folks with a telescope and start some "stuff" like that.

When we notified our school contact and mentioned what happened, they reply was "you should have been OK and approved". Sheesh.
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Re: Seeing the Pleiades and the Police in the same night...

#20

Post by gregl »


gcisko wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 11:18 pm ...
When we notified our school contact and mentioned what happened, they reply was "you should have been OK and approved". Sheesh.

Well you know that old saying about how the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. We were at a school one time and the admin forgot to notify the groundskeepers. Guess what time the the automatic lawn sprinklers come on?
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