Telescope Pilot Wings

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Telescope Pilot Wings

#1

Post by seer »


I mentioned telescope pilot wings in one of my other posts. The more I think about them the better they seem. If an essay would be required in order to get them on say the workings and use of a manual EQ mount we could mine them for good proper instructions for everyone. Ya know even AZ mount instructions suck. There would be other things to like putting together star hops. Maybe there could be different rankings and or classifications.
Donald
Tasco BRK Essentials Model: 169735 7x35, Celestron Cometron 7x50, Bushnell 10x50 Legacy WP, Oberwerk 15x70 LW, Meade Infinity 60mm AZ Refractor, Bushnell Deep Space 3 inch Reflector, Meade Polaris 80mm EQ Refractor, Meade Polaris 114mm Reflector.
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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#2

Post by Gordon »


Moved to a more appropriate area.

We can always create 'flairs' (little icons) if folks want to create the topics.
Gordon
Scopes: Explore Scientific ED80CF, Skywatcher 200 Quattro Imaging Newt, SeeStar S50 for EAA.
Mounts: Orion Atlas EQ-g mount & Skywatcher EQ5 Pro.
ZWO mini guider.
Image cameras: ZWO ASI1600 MM Cool, ZWO ASI533mc-Pro, ZWO ASI174mm-C (for use with my Quark chromosphere), ZWO ASI120MC
Filters: LRGB, Ha 7nm, O-III 7nm, S-II 7nm
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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#3

Post by JayTee »


I'm working on an article right now, (spoiler alert) it involves golf clubs.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#4

Post by hal2000 »


I always think it is bit unfortunate that most forums have monthly or whatever imaging competitions, but nothing for non-APer's

If anyone would like an article about a bank holiday weekend just past with three days of perfect weather, yet three nights of clouds, I'm your man
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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#5

Post by JayTee »


hal2000 wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:10 pm I always think it is bit unfortunate that most forums have monthly or whatever imaging competitions, but nothing for non-APer's
Hi,
The vast array of both different size and type optics AND your viewing location make a contest between visual astronomers virtually impossible.

What we do offer are self-directed accomplishment badges, for example, the Messier award badges. We have in the works other badges, possibly Herschel and or Caldwell badges.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#6

Post by Bigzmey »


JayTee wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:29 pm
hal2000 wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:10 pm I always think it is bit unfortunate that most forums have monthly or whatever imaging competitions, but nothing for non-APer's
Hi,
The vast array of both different size and type optics AND your viewing location make a contest between visual astronomers virtually impossible.

What we do offer are self-directed accomplishment badges, for example, the Messier award badges. We have in the works other badges, possibly Herschel and or Caldwell badges.

Cheers,
JT
Having observing challenges is a brilliant idea! It set apart AF from other forums and we should develop it further here on TSS. How about Southern Sky Challenge? Herschels and Caldwell sounds good to.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#7

Post by JayTee »


The Southern Sky Challenge is just about finished. Look for it soon.

JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#8

Post by seer »


What I have in mind has to do with mastering the equipment. There are a few people here that actually make jewelry. They may know or be able to design them and how to get them made. Having them as an icon would work also.
How do we let the telescope makers know that design updates are long overdue for the less expensive telescope mounts like the ones that I have to use? They are so archaic that they actually have dunsels on them.
Donald
Tasco BRK Essentials Model: 169735 7x35, Celestron Cometron 7x50, Bushnell 10x50 Legacy WP, Oberwerk 15x70 LW, Meade Infinity 60mm AZ Refractor, Bushnell Deep Space 3 inch Reflector, Meade Polaris 80mm EQ Refractor, Meade Polaris 114mm Reflector.
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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#9

Post by JayTee »


seer wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:27 pmIf an essay would be required in order to get them on say the workings and use of a manual EQ mount we could mine them for good proper instructions for everyone. Ya know even AZ mount instructions suck. There would be other things to like putting together star hops. Maybe there could be different rankings and or classifications.
For some reason our gear, our instruments, our equipment really suffers from poor technical writing. Chalk it up to whatever excuse the manufacturer is willing to provide.

BUT, technical writing on the scale that you are suggesting is extremely difficult. Here's why, take the CGEM, for example, the overall mechanical function between manufacturers is nearly identical, but the operation of that particular manufacturer's equipment is very specific as to the procedures and features that it contains. These procedures and features not only differ from manufacturer to manufacturer but also between different models from the same manufacturer. So making an "overall" manual for a CGEM is a huge undertaking. This the reason why we typically see just a generic version of how to "basically" set up the equipment. Some even give you the "why" you are doing what you are doing, but even that sometimes leaves a lot to be desired.

Your goal is admirable but we are stuck in a consumer universe that makes technical writing a very real challenge.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#10

Post by seer »


JayTee wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:32 pm
seer wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:27 pmIf an essay would be required in order to get them on say the workings and use of a manual EQ mount we could mine them for good proper instructions for everyone. Ya know even AZ mount instructions suck. There would be other things to like putting together star hops. Maybe there could be different rankings and or classifications.
For some reason our gear, our instruments, our equipment really suffers from poor technical writing. Chalk it up to whatever excuse the manufacturer is willing to provide.

BUT, technical writing on the scale that you are suggesting is extremely difficult. Here's why, take the CGEM, for example, the overall mechanical function between manufacturers is nearly identical, but the operation of that particular manufacturer's equipment is very specific as to the procedures and features that it contains. These procedures and features not only differ from manufacturer to manufacturer but also between different models from the same manufacturer. So making an "overall" manual for a CGEM is a huge undertaking. This the reason why we typically see just a generic version of how to "basically" set up the equipment. Some even give you the "why" you are doing what you are doing, but even that sometimes leaves a lot to be desired.

Your goal is admirable but we are stuck in a consumer universe that makes technical writing a very real challenge.

Cheers,
JT
You underestimate how poor I am. I don't know mounts like the CGEM. The mounts that I am becoming familiar with I believe are called the EQ1 and EQ2 and some AZ counterparts. The CGEM is a go-to mount.
Donald
Tasco BRK Essentials Model: 169735 7x35, Celestron Cometron 7x50, Bushnell 10x50 Legacy WP, Oberwerk 15x70 LW, Meade Infinity 60mm AZ Refractor, Bushnell Deep Space 3 inch Reflector, Meade Polaris 80mm EQ Refractor, Meade Polaris 114mm Reflector.
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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#11

Post by Bigzmey »


seer wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:29 am
JayTee wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:32 pm
seer wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:27 pmIf an essay would be required in order to get them on say the workings and use of a manual EQ mount we could mine them for good proper instructions for everyone. Ya know even AZ mount instructions suck. There would be other things to like putting together star hops. Maybe there could be different rankings and or classifications.
For some reason our gear, our instruments, our equipment really suffers from poor technical writing. Chalk it up to whatever excuse the manufacturer is willing to provide.

BUT, technical writing on the scale that you are suggesting is extremely difficult. Here's why, take the CGEM, for example, the overall mechanical function between manufacturers is nearly identical, but the operation of that particular manufacturer's equipment is very specific as to the procedures and features that it contains. These procedures and features not only differ from manufacturer to manufacturer but also between different models from the same manufacturer. So making an "overall" manual for a CGEM is a huge undertaking. This the reason why we typically see just a generic version of how to "basically" set up the equipment. Some even give you the "why" you are doing what you are doing, but even that sometimes leaves a lot to be desired.

Your goal is admirable but we are stuck in a consumer universe that makes technical writing a very real challenge.

Cheers,
JT
You underestimate how poor I am. I don't know mounts like the CGEM. The mounts that I am becoming familiar with I believe are called the EQ1 and EQ2 and some AZ counterparts. The CGEM is a go-to mount.
GEM (German equatorial mount) is just another name for EQ you are referring to.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#12

Post by seer »


Sorry, I did a quick search and just glanced at the photos that popped up and they were go-to mounts.
I am just throwing some ideas out there.
I still think that telescope pilot wings are a good idea.
Donald
Tasco BRK Essentials Model: 169735 7x35, Celestron Cometron 7x50, Bushnell 10x50 Legacy WP, Oberwerk 15x70 LW, Meade Infinity 60mm AZ Refractor, Bushnell Deep Space 3 inch Reflector, Meade Polaris 80mm EQ Refractor, Meade Polaris 114mm Reflector.
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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#13

Post by Voyageur »


Bigzmey wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:35 am
seer wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:29 am
JayTee wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:32 pm For some reason our gear, our instruments, our equipment really suffers from poor technical writing. Chalk it up to whatever excuse the manufacturer is willing to provide.

BUT, technical writing on the scale that you are suggesting is extremely difficult. Here's why, take the CGEM, for example, the overall mechanical function between manufacturers is nearly identical, but the operation of that particular manufacturer's equipment is very specific as to the procedures and features that it contains. These procedures and features not only differ from manufacturer to manufacturer but also between different models from the same manufacturer. So making an "overall" manual for a CGEM is a huge undertaking. This the reason why we typically see just a generic version of how to "basically" set up the equipment. Some even give you the "why" you are doing what you are doing, but even that sometimes leaves a lot to be desired.

Your goal is admirable but we are stuck in a consumer universe that makes technical writing a very real challenge.

Cheers,
JT
You underestimate how poor I am. I don't know mounts like the CGEM. The mounts that I am becoming familiar with I believe are called the EQ1 and EQ2 and some AZ counterparts. The CGEM is a go-to mount.
GEM (German equatorial mount) is just another name for EQ you are referring to.
It's a difference of degree (quality, price, features) rather than of kind. The mechanical principles are the same for all German equatorial mounts, goto or manual.

I have a Vixen Sphinx, an older model, and found the manual to be quite well done, with photos, diagrams and text. I had no trouble understanding it, even thought it was my first GEM/EQ mount.

Understanding the basic motions of the mount is critical to using the mount; I don't always use goto, but often manually locate objects for fun or even efficiency's sake. I can move it manually faster than its motors do!

There is certainly room for good materials on the basic operation of any EQ mount, irrespective of make, model, and features.
Scopes: Vixen VMC200L, D=200mm, F=1950, f/9.75; Televue 2" Everbright diagonal. Coronado PST; AstroTech EDT 80mm, F=480, f/6.
Mounts: Vixen SXW/Starbook (original); Stellarvue M2C alt-az.
Eyepieces: Televue: 55mm Plossl, 22mm Panoptic, 17.3mm Delos, 13mm Nagler, c. 1980, 11mm Plossl, 7mm Nagler, 5mm Radian; Meade 15mm Super Plossl; VERNONSCOPE 2.4X BARLOW
Binoculars: Leica 8x32 Trinovids, circa 1997; Orion Megaview 20x80, Orion Paragon Plus mount.
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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#14

Post by seer »


You don't drive a telescope you pilot it. Just sayin.
It would be a symbol to help confirm ones ability to use equipment properly and effectively (get to where you want to go).
Getting a good issuing authority behind it would be great.
Donald
Tasco BRK Essentials Model: 169735 7x35, Celestron Cometron 7x50, Bushnell 10x50 Legacy WP, Oberwerk 15x70 LW, Meade Infinity 60mm AZ Refractor, Bushnell Deep Space 3 inch Reflector, Meade Polaris 80mm EQ Refractor, Meade Polaris 114mm Reflector.
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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#15

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Drive, pilot, steer, it all means the same in the end.
I refer to it as steering the telescope and I have a habit of doing it by holding the diagonal. A good strong focuser can take the abuse but a poorly made one will suffer from it.
If you master using a EQ-1 then there is really no difference using a EQ-5 other than the size and that you have better operational accessories to put on it.
Peirs, polar-scopes, single or dual motors, different saddle plates or even goto functions can be added to the mount.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#16

Post by JayTee »


Not to harsh your buzz, and as I said before your overall idea is admirable, but as a retired military and commercial pilot you categorically do not pilot a telescope, you operate it. And as Gabrielle pointed out above, once you understand the basic theory and function of your mount you can apply that knowledge across the board. All you have left to do at that point is just understand the features and procedures for that particular mount.

I think what you are really getting at is designating somebody a subject matter expert also known as a SME. The question is who decides when somebody is a SME or not?

Food for thought,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#17

Post by seer »


JayTee wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:25 am Not to harsh your buzz, and as I said before your overall idea is admirable, but as a retired military and commercial pilot you categorically do not pilot a telescope, you operate it. And as Gabrielle pointed out above, once you understand the basic theory and function of your mount you can apply that knowledge across the board. All you have left to do at that point is just understand the features and procedures for that particular mount.

I think what you are really getting at is designating somebody a subject matter expert also known as a SME. The question is who decides when somebody is a SME or not?

Food for thought,
JT
I disagree with you as far as piloting a telescope goes. It's akin to navigating.
I have already said about getting a good issuing authority behind it. That would make it even better.
Donald
Tasco BRK Essentials Model: 169735 7x35, Celestron Cometron 7x50, Bushnell 10x50 Legacy WP, Oberwerk 15x70 LW, Meade Infinity 60mm AZ Refractor, Bushnell Deep Space 3 inch Reflector, Meade Polaris 80mm EQ Refractor, Meade Polaris 114mm Reflector.
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Re: Telescope Pilot Wings

#18

Post by Bigzmey »


I guess if we talk about manual mount there are two aspects of scope operation. One is to learn all bolts and whistles of the scope and mount to drive it and then learn your way around the sky to manually navigate to your target. Combining the two would be akin to piloting a ship or a plane or a car. We don't travel on earth but we do travel across the sky when we observe.

I agree that judging someone ability to master the scope over internet would be difficult, but we could have a star hopping challenge of some sort which would show your ability to drive, operate, navigate, pilot your manual scope. :D
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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