Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

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Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#1

Post by Jockinireland »


We are relaunching the AP Processing Challenge after a bit of a summer hiatus.

This time I'm putting in some of my own recent data for NGC 7822 - my original post is here so you can see what I got viewtopic.php?t=26473

It is a 2 panel mosaic (already combined by APP so no stitching required although you will need to crop out the edges) taken with the SW 80ED (FL 510mm) and the ASI2600mc (Pixel 3.7 micron). Its about 7 hours total with the overlap covering most of the detailed areas. I used my L-enhance so it can be worked as a Narrow (ish) band HOO or as a normal OSC. I have provided a single OSC colour file and separate mono files for Ha and Oiii which were extracted using APP's extraction algorithms.

You can get the files here https://1drv.ms/u/s!Alj6NhuYfZtW_SmB_Co ... -?e=ie8f3J

As always, download, process and post back in this thread with details of how you did it. Remember this is all about sharing experience and learning from each other

Enjoy the Challenge

David.
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#2

Post by ApophisAstros »


Will give it a try.
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#3

Post by Rasalgethi »


I had a try at the .fits OSC in Pixinsight.

ABE-Div
Crop
DBE-Div - only enought background for 9 points.
Multiscale LT
- 0.1
- 0.01
- 0.003
- 0.002
DVG Denoise
- 0.1
- 0.1
- 0.01
Morphological Transformation
- Morphological Selection
- 1.0
- 1.0
- 1.0
- 0.5
Curves
- S Curve
- Saturation - slight
STF/HT

NGC7822-01-SS.png

My full sized version looks quite good but the small forum version looks blurry. Is there a way to make it bigger?

Thanks
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#4

Post by carastro »


Hmmm, I am not used to processing OSC HOO.
Wacking great file too, had to reduce the size in order to post it.

Anyway, this is my result.

Sorry I forgot you like to know the processing flow.
In Photoshop, processed the Ha and Oiii separately usinhg mostly levels and Curves, but I also used an Equalize function as described on my You tube video tutorial :



I used a High pass filter on Ha keeping the stars separeated.

This resulted in rather large stars in Oiii, so I shrunk them in Images plus and combined with Ha as HOO in channels.
One I had reasonable colour (selective coklour) I added a 2d itreration of Ha on to as Lumiinance and blurred the original HOO below, lifting the coloured layer in Curves and lowering the Ha layer in Curves until I got a pleasing result.

Carole
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Last edited by carastro on Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#5

Post by Jockinireland »


carastro wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:52 pm Hmmm, I am not used to processing OSC HOO.
Wacking great file too, had to reduce the size in order to post it.

Anyway, this is my result.
Hi carole,

I think thats come out nice. I particularly like how you have got the core lighter and brighter.

I know you use Photoshop exclusively so maybe you would share your PS workflow for this image. there are a few others on here who use PS so it would be interesting.

On the file size - yes they are a it chunky alright! The 2600mc raw files are 50mb staright out of the camera. On my recent dusty iris I did a drizzle integration in PI and the resulting file was 1.25Gb. I then did a HDR Combination at which point Pi wanted to make it 64 bits and 2,5 GB. My computer took one look at it and just laughed at me so I went back to the original, undrizzled integration which was still 300mb and 600mb when I did the HDR.
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#6

Post by carastro »


I know you use Photoshop exclusively so maybe you would share your PS workflow for this image. there are a few others on here who use PS so it would be interesting.
#

Sorry Jock, I always forget you want to know the procedure. I have been back into the post and amended it.

Carole
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#7

Post by Jockinireland »


carastro wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:12 pm
I know you use Photoshop exclusively so maybe you would share your PS workflow for this image. there are a few others on here who use PS so it would be interesting.
#

Sorry Jock, I always forget you want to know the procedure. I have been back into the post and amended it.

Carole
Thanks carole :text-thankyouyellow:
Scope: Skywatcher Evostar 80ED (SW 0.85 FR/FF) on a SW NEQ6Pro
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#8

Post by Larry 1969 »


I'm still fumbling around with Pixinsight but I came up with this. I should have stretched it more I suppose.
I did notice something odd. When I used Color Calibration, it made the image very dark. I had to pull the Upper Limit back from 900 to 400 and, even then it was a little dark. Also, this is the first image I've processed that EZ HRD had a pretty dramatic effect. I had to tone that down as well.

I'm afraid I didn't do your awesome data much justice...
OSC_DBERESIZE.jpg




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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#9

Post by Jockinireland »


Larry 1969 wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:10 pm I'm still fumbling around with Pixinsight but I came up with this. I should have stretched it more I suppose.
I did notice something odd. When I used Color Calibration, it made the image very dark. I had to pull the Upper Limit back from 900 to 400 and, even then it was a little dark. Also, this is the first image I've processed that EZ HRD had a pretty dramatic effect. I had to tone that down as well.

I'm afraid I didn't do your awesome data much justice...

OSC_DBERESIZE.jpg





Larry
Hi larry,

I'd say thats not a bad result at all especially if you are new at PI. On going darker after CC - did you use CC or PCC. I've never seen that happen with PCC but hardly ever use CC. But remember to redo the STF after you have done the CC.

I tend not to bother with PCC or CC on the L-Enhance data - the stars are not going to come good anyway and I'm usually going to try to get some sort of HOO flavour out of it so I leave the CC out.

Over all I think you have a good level of detail and drama in the core (I've never used EZHDR so must give it a go), you have the fainter parts of the nebula starting to show. Youve done a good job on the stars which were a bit "wonky" especially at corners - I need to shave a bit off my backfocus.

So thanks for giving it a go, I like it.

David.
Scope: Skywatcher Evostar 80ED (SW 0.85 FR/FF) on a SW NEQ6Pro
Guiding; SW Evoguide 50ED, ASI 120mm mini
Meade 8" LX200 GPS on wedge (Guided with a cheapo 50mm guidescope and a ZWO ASI 120mm mini)
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#10

Post by Larry 1969 »


Jockinireland wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:38 pm Hi larry,

I'd say thats not a bad result at all especially if you are new at PI. On going darker after CC - did you use CC or PCC. I've never seen that happen with PCC but hardly ever use CC. But remember to redo the STF after you have done the CC.

I tend not to bother with PCC or CC on the L-Enhance data - the stars are not going to come good anyway and I'm usually going to try to get some sort of HOO flavour out of it so I leave the CC out.

Over all I think you have a good level of detail and drama in the core (I've never used EZHDR so must give it a go), you have the fainter parts of the nebula starting to show. Youve done a good job on the stars which were a bit "wonky" especially at corners - I need to shave a bit off my backfocus.

So thanks for giving it a go, I like it.

David.
Hey David!
I've been using CC not PCC. I have skipped it altogether in the past as well. I just never noticed it darkening the image before. Maybe it has something to do with the L-Enhance data set???

I was going to try Generalized Hyperbolic Stretch, but that's WAY over my head so I stuck with my usual manual stretch.

The EZ Processing Suite is quite helpful (at least to me). EZ HDR and Local Histogram Equalization are what I use to help define some of that "drama in the core". :D

I find that almost all images benefit from a little star reduction, but yours was tough for me. I really like that tiny cluster on the right, so I used Bill's Star Reduction method 3 with "mode" set to 3 for the least amount of reduction and it preserved that little cluster nicely and just tightened up the stars.

Thanks for the nice data to work with!

Larry
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#11

Post by Sky »


carastro wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:52 pm In Photoshop, processed the Ha and Oiii separately usinhg mostly levels and Curves, but I also used an Equalize function as described on my You tube video tutorial :



Carole
Hi Carole ...Thanks for posting the YouTube video. I've used Photoshop for at least the past 20 years and I never thought to take a look at the Equalize function. I will definitely try it out ... soon!

Your posted image of NGC7822 has an amazing amount of detail ... very impressive! It's nice to see a fellow Photoshop user that's still around and hasn't migrated to Pixinsight.

Jim
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#12

Post by carastro »


It's nice to see a fellow Photoshop user that's still around and hasn't migrated to Pixinsight.
Ditto

I was well into Photoshop when Pixinsight came out. I saw a couple of demos and didn't have a clue what was going on, so never even tried it. It sounds a bit mathematical to me, with lots of scripts. I prefer the hands on approach when I can control everything that happens. I haven't seen anything that people can achieve in Pixinsight that i can't do in Photoshop apart from the actual stacking and Registration, But I use Astroart and Registar for that which I already had anyway.

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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#13

Post by UkDave »


Nice data thanks Processing in Startools 8
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#14

Post by BABOafrica »


I used StarTools 8 and then GIMP.

For ST8, I just went thru the usual sequence, top to bottom, beginning with BIN but using ONLY the OSC. My laptop kept crashing if I tried to add in the Ha and O3. The files are just TOO BIG for my laptop. So I had to stick to basics.

After ST8 I used GIMP for some minor adjustments to color.

OSC pro 02 F.jpg

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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#15

Post by STEVE333 »


Several nice posts so far. Here is my HOO attempt processed with PixInsight.

HOO_w_Stars.jpg

I tried to use the tiff files but the Oiii image had real problems. So, I switched to the fits files. These seemed to have some embedded processing that was confusing me and PI. Once I removed the embedded processing things progressed normally.

PROCESSING
  • 1) Crop
  • 2) DBE
  • 3) Removed noise with NoiseXTerminator
  • 4) Mildly stretched Ha image because it was the brightest. Mildly stretched O3 image until the stars and dark background regions were approximately the same as the Ha stretched image.
  • 5) Removed stars from Ha and O3 stretched images and retained the stars for later.
  • 6) Stretched O3 further to bring out more of the nebulosity while approximately keeping the dark background regions the same as the corresponding Ha regions.
  • 7) Combined Ha and O3 with PixelMath: R= Ha, G = 0.7*O3 +0.3*Ha, B = O3.
  • 8) Use HistogramTransformation to align R, G and B histograms. I do this to make sure the dark background regions are grey or black.
  • 9) Increased color saturation using CurvesTransformation.
  • 10) Extract Luminance from HOO image and sharpen it with MultiScaleLinearTransform. Then increase contrast with LocalHistogramTransformation.
  • 11) Apply LRGBCombination to HOO image using sharpened Luminance image for "L" channel. R,G and B are left unchecked.
  • 12) Increase color saturation a bit more using CurvesTransformation.
  • 13) Use a yellow ColorMask to adjust color of nebulosity.
  • 14) Boost low level structures using ExponentialTransformation.
  • 15) Combine Ha_Stars and O3_Stars to create HOO stars.
  • 16) Add HOO stars to starless HOO image.
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#16

Post by Juno16 »


STEVE333 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:32 am Several nice posts so far. Here is my HOO attempt processed with PixInsight.


HOO_w_Stars.jpg


I tried to use the tiff files but the Oiii image had real problems. So, I switched to the fits files. These seemed to have some embedded processing that was confusing me and PI. Once I removed the embedded processing things progressed normally.

PROCESSING
  • 1) Crop
  • 2) DBE
  • 3) Removed noise with NoiseXTerminator
  • 4) Mildly stretched Ha image because it was the brightest. Mildly stretched O3 image until the stars and dark background regions were approximately the same as the Ha stretched image.
  • 5) Removed stars from Ha and O3 stretched images and retained the stars for later.
  • 6) Stretched O3 further to bring out more of the nebulosity while approximately keeping the dark background regions the same as the corresponding Ha regions.
  • 7) Combined Ha and O3 with PixelMath: R= Ha, G = 0.7*O3 +0.3*Ha, B = O3.
  • 8) Use HistogramTransformation to align R, G and B histograms. I do this to make sure the dark background regions are grey or black.
  • 9) Increased color saturation using CurvesTransformation.
  • 10) Extract Luminance from HOO image and sharpen it with MultiScaleLinearTransform. Then increase contrast with LocalHistogramTransformation.
  • 11) Apply LRGBCombination to HOO image using sharpened Luminance image for "L" channel. R,G and B are left unchecked.
  • 12) Increase color saturation a bit more using CurvesTransformation.
  • 13) Use a yellow ColorMask to adjust color of nebulosity.
  • 14) Boost low level structures using ExponentialTransformation.
  • 15) Combine Ha_Stars and O3_Stars to create HOO stars.
  • 16) Add HOO stars to starless HOO image.
Steve

Beautiful process Steve!

I recently finished processing my own data and I can appreciate your process.
I really like how you pulled out low level nebulosity very nicely. In my own data, I saw that I could do that but was hesitant because I wanted to concentrate more on the main nebula. The brightness that you brought out looks very nice!
I believe (I could be wrong) that David might use APP for stacking? Maybe that could account for any embedded processing?

Very nice that you included your processing steps.
I really like step 8. I usually save the finished starless from PI as a tiff and bring it into Photoshop to adjust levels to even out the background. Your method is much more efficient!

Thanks and well done!
Jim

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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#17

Post by STEVE333 »


Juno16 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:49 pm

Beautiful process Steve!

I recently finished processing my own data and I can appreciate your process.
I really like how you pulled out low level nebulosity very nicely. In my own data, I saw that I could do that but was hesitant because I wanted to concentrate more on the main nebula. The brightness that you brought out looks very nice!
I believe (I could be wrong) that David might use APP for stacking? Maybe that could account for any embedded processing?

Very nice that you included your processing steps.
I really like step 8. I usually save the finished starless from PI as a tiff and bring it into Photoshop to adjust levels to even out the background. Your method is much more efficient!

Thanks and well done!

Thanks Jim. It took me quite a while to figure out how to get rid of the "embedded" stuff. I'm not even sure that's what it is, but, it seems like that's what's going on.
I've been using "step (8)" subconsciously for a while and finally realized that it is a necessary step. Yes it is quite easy to do in PI. Glad it works for you too.

Cheers,
Steve
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#18

Post by Jockinireland »


Hi @STEVE333 @Juno16

Sorry the data is giving you trouble. I'm away from my computer for a few days so cannot dig into it. I've no idea what could be wrong with the Oiii tiff.

On the fits, these were stacked by wbpp in PI. But remember this is a 2 panel mosaic, built using the Photometric mosaic process. I didn't do gradient reduction before PM but I guess that the process does do a fair chunk of processing in order to merge and blend the panels. Maybe that's the "embedded" stuff? The Ha and Oiii are simple channel extractions from the OSC mosaic and are what I used process to my final image. And I had no issues.

So again, apologies for this but I'm not sure what's gone wrong.

Nice final image though Steve and a nicely laid out processing map. Thanks!

Take care

David
Scope: Skywatcher Evostar 80ED (SW 0.85 FR/FF) on a SW NEQ6Pro
Guiding; SW Evoguide 50ED, ASI 120mm mini
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Sharpstar 61EDPH II (with dedicated 0.8 reducer) with wiliam Optics 32mm uniguide
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#19

Post by STEVE333 »


Jockinireland wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:56 am Hi @STEVE333 @Juno16

Sorry the data is giving you trouble. I'm away from my computer for a few days so cannot dig into it. I've no idea what could be wrong with the Oiii tiff.

On the fits, these were stacked by wbpp in PI. But remember this is a 2 panel mosaic, built using the Photometric mosaic process. I didn't do gradient reduction before PM but I guess that the process does do a fair chunk of processing in order to merge and blend the panels. Maybe that's the "embedded" stuff? The Ha and Oiii are simple channel extractions from the OSC mosaic and are what I used process to my final image. And I had no issues.

So again, apologies for this but I'm not sure what's gone wrong.

Nice final image though Steve and a nicely laid out processing map. Thanks!

Take care

David

No problems David. Sorry if it sounded like I was complaining. I just wanted to explain the problem I ran into in case anybody else had the same problem. Thanks for sharing your data.

The O3 tiff behaved very strangely. I believe it has something to do with quantization. When I ran ABE the Background image was very quantized with only 4 or 5 shades of gray across the image. If I changed the LUT to 24-bit it then had smooth gradients. However, when I looked at the ABE corrected image the quantization was still present. Changing to the 24-bit LUT didn't solve the problem. I'm a bit confused by this, but, I didn't have the same problem with the fits files, so, those are the ones I processed.

Thanks so much for providing both the tiff and fits files. A lot of work on your side!

Steve
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Re: Processing Challenge 33 NGC7822

#20

Post by Jockinireland »


STEVE333 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:24 pm
Jockinireland wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:56 am Hi @STEVE333 @Juno16

Sorry the data is giving you trouble. I'm away from my computer for a few days so cannot dig into it. I've no idea what could be wrong with the Oiii tiff.

On the fits, these were stacked by wbpp in PI. But remember this is a 2 panel mosaic, built using the Photometric mosaic process. I didn't do gradient reduction before PM but I guess that the process does do a fair chunk of processing in order to merge and blend the panels. Maybe that's the "embedded" stuff? The Ha and Oiii are simple channel extractions from the OSC mosaic and are what I used process to my final image. And I had no issues.

So again, apologies for this but I'm not sure what's gone wrong.

Nice final image though Steve and a nicely laid out processing map. Thanks!

Take care

David

No problems David. Sorry if it sounded like I was complaining. I just wanted to explain the problem I ran into in case anybody else had the same problem. Thanks for sharing your data.

The O3 tiff behaved very strangely. I believe it has something to do with quantization. When I ran ABE the Background image was very quantized with only 4 or 5 shades of gray across the image. If I changed the LUT to 24-bit it then had smooth gradients. However, when I looked at the ABE corrected image the quantization was still present. Changing to the 24-bit LUT didn't solve the problem. I'm a bit confused by this, but, I didn't have the same problem with the fits files, so, those are the ones I processed.

Thanks so much for providing both the tiff and fits files. A lot of work on your side!

Steve
Hi Steve, absoloutely no worries, I was not taking it as complaining in any way at all.

I've had a chance to look at the files now and see exactly what you mean - after ABE dreadful stripes!. Its very starnge and its there in all 3 of the tiff's. I tried saving a second time and it is the same so its not that those files are corrept. But then I tried doing the same with a recent non mosaic masterlight file and it had no issue after ABE when saved as a 16btiff

I've also saved masters (non-mosaic) for the challenge many times and never seen this issue. It seems it must be something happening when i save from PI to tiff after the Photometric mosaic process and may be associated with the embedded processing you mentioned. When I have more time I may dig in further and ask around the Pi forum too.

All very strange!!

rgds

David.
Scope: Skywatcher Evostar 80ED (SW 0.85 FR/FF) on a SW NEQ6Pro
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