Electric vehicles

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Lady Fraktor
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Electric vehicles

#1

Post by Lady Fraktor »

Since FIAT has recently announced that their passenger car lineup will all be electric (with 2 hybrid) starting July 2022, we have been receiving at least 2 phone calls a day from the dealership asking if we either want to trade our van in or that they have someone interested in buying ours.
Apparently they can be quite persistent!

Is anyone driving a 100% electric or hybrid vehicle?
Refractors: Antares 105mm f/15 (modified), Celestron 150mm f/8 (modified), Homemade 70mm f/10 (LZOS K8/F13 doublet), Stellarvue NHNG Deluxe 80mm f/6.9, TAL 100RS f/10, Vixen SD115s f/7.7
EQ Mounts: Celestron CG-5, Celestron ASGT (modified), TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP/ Berlebach Planet
Az/ Alt Mounts: Celestron SLT (modified), Manfrotto 055B/ RC28, Manfrotto 028B/ Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Diagonal: 2” Astro-Physics MaxBright, 2” Stellarvue Deluxe, 2” TAL dielectric, 2” TeleVue Everbrite, 1.25" Vixen flip mirror, 2” Baader DX-2 Amici prism, 2” Long Perng Amici prism, 2” Baader Herschel wedge
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss, now only slightly more than 1 person requires!
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Re: Electric vehicles

#2

Post by notFritzArgelander »

I wish I were. So far they are out-of-budget.
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Lady Fraktor
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Re: Electric vehicles

#3

Post by Lady Fraktor »

I agree, we went and looked at one yesterday evening.
Our current Fiat van cost € 20 000 with some extra modifications, the one we were shown yesterday was € 85 840 and with comparable optional equipment cost € 93 460 without DPH!! :o
It also was not rated to tow a trailer and the range at 100% charge was only 380 km.
In comparison it just does not make good sense unfortunately.
Refractors: Antares 105mm f/15 (modified), Celestron 150mm f/8 (modified), Homemade 70mm f/10 (LZOS K8/F13 doublet), Stellarvue NHNG Deluxe 80mm f/6.9, TAL 100RS f/10, Vixen SD115s f/7.7
EQ Mounts: Celestron CG-5, Celestron ASGT (modified), TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP/ Berlebach Planet
Az/ Alt Mounts: Celestron SLT (modified), Manfrotto 055B/ RC28, Manfrotto 028B/ Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Diagonal: 2” Astro-Physics MaxBright, 2” Stellarvue Deluxe, 2” TAL dielectric, 2” TeleVue Everbrite, 1.25" Vixen flip mirror, 2” Baader DX-2 Amici prism, 2” Long Perng Amici prism, 2” Baader Herschel wedge
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss, now only slightly more than 1 person requires!
There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness
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Re: Electric vehicles

#4

Post by Bigzmey »

Lady Fraktor wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:00 pm Since FIAT has recently announced that their passenger car lineup will all be electric (with 2 hybrid) starting July 2022, we have been receiving at least 2 phone calls a day from the dealership asking if we either want to trade our van in or that they have someone interested in buying ours.
Apparently they can be quite persistent!

Is anyone driving a 100% electric or hybrid vehicle?
California freeway may give you that impression but electric and plug-ins are still relatively small fraction.

I agree with you both, economically it is still more expensive to own electric or plug-in compared to gasoline car, even at current gas prices.
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Re: Electric vehicles

#5

Post by smp »

I purchased my Mustang Mach-E on 26 April 2021.
Been driving it as our second car since then. Almost 5000 miles on it now.
I could not be happier with my decision to purchase it.

smp
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Re: Electric vehicles

#6

Post by Lady Fraktor »

smp wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:11 pm I purchased my Mustang Mach-E on 26 April 2021.
Been driving it as our second car since then. Almost 5000 miles on it now.
I could not be happier with my decision to purchase it.

smp
What is the range and charging times?

In comparison for myself:
Van I own has 45 litre fuel tank which gives me 1 200 km range or 1 000 km range pulling a 1 300 kg trailer (at 90 kmh)
e Van cannot tow and has 380 km range. (80% charge in 1h 25m/ 100% charge in 8h)

As much as I would like a electric it is still not viable for me overall.
Refractors: Antares 105mm f/15 (modified), Celestron 150mm f/8 (modified), Homemade 70mm f/10 (LZOS K8/F13 doublet), Stellarvue NHNG Deluxe 80mm f/6.9, TAL 100RS f/10, Vixen SD115s f/7.7
EQ Mounts: Celestron CG-5, Celestron ASGT (modified), TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP/ Berlebach Planet
Az/ Alt Mounts: Celestron SLT (modified), Manfrotto 055B/ RC28, Manfrotto 028B/ Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Diagonal: 2” Astro-Physics MaxBright, 2” Stellarvue Deluxe, 2” TAL dielectric, 2” TeleVue Everbrite, 1.25" Vixen flip mirror, 2” Baader DX-2 Amici prism, 2” Long Perng Amici prism, 2” Baader Herschel wedge
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss, now only slightly more than 1 person requires!
There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness
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smp
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Re: Electric vehicles

#7

Post by smp »

The range in fair weather is 270+ miles.
I found the winter weather range here in New Hampshire USA to be much reduced, down to perhaps 170-180 miles. During January, February and some of March, the daily high temperature is usually about 20 degrees F, and the overnight low down near 0 degrees F. I found that even if there is a mild temperature spell it does not help any, because our unheated garage really remains at a colder temperature.

The Mach-E comes with a charger that you plug into a 240V 40A circuit, which allows a full charge from nearly zero in about 10 hours (about 30 miles range per hour of charge). I usually charge to 90% battery capacity, per the instructions in the manual, and only charge to 100% if I believe I will need that little bit more on the next trip. I also usually do not let the battery fall below 40% before I plug in, unless a long trip brings me below that before I get home.

Over the past year, chargers have started to appear in Wal-Mart parking lots and parking garages, as well as other strip mall parking lots. I'm keeping track of things, and one day I will plan a trip around the New England area where I will have to stop in the middle and charge up in order to get safely back home. I have not yet been brave enough to give that a try yet.

smp
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Re: Electric vehicles

#8

Post by smp »

Oh, and here's another thing that will probably be unique to me in my situation:

We have solar panels on our house and are on "net metering" for our home electricity. For the past few years we basically do not pay for any electricity for our home, because we generate more electricity most months than we use. Again, during January, February and March, we may not generate more than we use, but we build up a surplus during all the other months so that we have that available to draw on during the leaner months.

So, our EV charging is just another part of our overall electricity scheme, and while it uses more electricity than we did when we did not have the EV, we remain net positive overall with our solar electricity generation, and having the EV does not cost us any more for its "fuel" out of pocket.

smp
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Re: Electric vehicles

#9

Post by Bigzmey »

smp wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:46 pm Oh, and here's another thing that will probably be unique to me in my situation:

We have solar panels on our house and are on "net metering" for our home electricity. For the past few years we basically do not pay for any electricity for our home, because we generate more electricity most months than we use. Again, during January, February and March, we may not generate more than we use, but we build up a surplus during all the other months so that we have that available to draw on during the leaner months.

So, our EV charging is just another part of our overall electricity scheme, and while it uses more electricity than we did when we did not have the EV, we remain net positive overall with our solar electricity generation, and having the EV does not cost us any more for its "fuel" out of pocket.

smp
Solar panels + EV is quote attractive combo. This makes total sense for someone who want to reduce their footprint. I keep coming back to it since it is an attractive idea, but according to my calculations, even if you assume free electricity, price difference between similar EV and gas modesl still makes it cheaper to own gasoline car for now.

Another consideration is how fast the battery capacity is reduced by extreme weather. I read somewhere that EV batteries can loose up to 10% of their capacity every year. So I presume that your range shrinks year to year. Cost of replacing the battery after a few years is something to consider to.

Finally, I would hesitate to take EV on a long field/off road trip. Chances of finding charging station in the desert pretty slim and you can't bring a couple of canisters of electricity with you. :)

I am attracted to EV idea, but those are the reasons I am not getting one yet.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
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Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 2625 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2085, S110: 77). Doubles: 1831, Comets: 26, Asteroids: 133
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Re: Electric vehicles

#10

Post by Ylem »

I only drive about 50 miles a week, so it probably doesn't make sense for me.

I do own an electric golf cart, it was my dad's, he used to take it to some close by stores and restaurants.
The closest market here is about a mile away, so I probably could do that, just haven't thought of it till now.
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Re: Electric vehicles

#11

Post by smp »

Bigzmey wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:05 pm Solar panels + EV is quote attractive combo. This makes total sense for someone who want to reduce their footprint. I keep coming back to it since it is an attractive idea, but according to my calculations, even if you assume free electricity, price difference between similar EV and gas modesl still makes it cheaper to own gasoline car for now.

No doubt about it. The cost to install solar panels on your home is also very high. For us, offsetting perhaps $4000 per year of electricity will probably take 10 years to pay off.

Please do not get me wrong - We put solar panels on our home as an investment into the property. We wanted to do it, and we had the ability to do it. As well with the EV, I wanted to purchase the EV and I had the ability to do so. I do not go around advising any one else to get on the band wagon. We had these desires and the wherewithal to do it so we did. Yes, there was some calculation done to realize that the return-on-investment was not terrific, and we could purchase much more capability and/or performance for what we paid for the EV if we purchased a gas-powered vehicle, but as I said, I wanted to have an EV, so I bought the "best" one I could get my hands on for the money I had available to be spent.

All that being said, I enjoy sharing my experiences when questions come up. I enjoy being able to provide some real "facts" from a real owner, in order to help others come to their own conclusions. Hopefully, I can answer some questions that are not normally so obvious, especially if you don't even know that you ought to ask. The reduced range in the winter months was a surprise to me. I had heard about a "reduction" in range, but no one ever quantified that for me, and it was quite larger than I expected.

smp
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Telescopes: Tele Vue TV-85; Questar 3.5 Standard SN 18-11421; Stellina (EAA)
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Re: Electric vehicles

#12

Post by Bigzmey »

smp wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:37 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:05 pm Solar panels + EV is quote attractive combo. This makes total sense for someone who want to reduce their footprint. I keep coming back to it since it is an attractive idea, but according to my calculations, even if you assume free electricity, price difference between similar EV and gas modesl still makes it cheaper to own gasoline car for now.

No doubt about it. The cost to install solar panels on your home is also very high. For us, offsetting perhaps $4000 per year of electricity will probably take 10 years to pay off.

Please do not get me wrong - We put solar panels on our home as an investment into the property. We wanted to do it, and we had the ability to do it. As well with the EV, I wanted to purchase the EV and I had the ability to do so. I do not go around advising any one else to get on the band wagon. We had these desires and the wherewithal to do it so we did. Yes, there was some calculation done to realize that the return-on-investment was not terrific, and we could purchase much more capability and/or performance for what we paid for the EV if we purchased a gas-powered vehicle, but as I said, I wanted to have an EV, so I bought the "best" one I could get my hands on for the money I had available to be spent.

All that being said, I enjoy sharing my experiences when questions come up. I enjoy being able to provide some real "facts" from a real owner, in order to help others come to their own conclusions. Hopefully, I can answer some questions that are not normally so obvious, especially if you don't even know that you ought to ask. The reduced range in the winter months was a surprise to me. I had heard about a "reduction" in range, but no one ever quantified that for me, and it was quite larger than I expected.

smp
Stephen, your unbiased feedback is much appreciated!

Fortunately, we have purchased our house with solar already installed, so we are halfway there. We had very good experience with Toyota Prius hybrid (none-plug in), so for my next car I am considering plug-in RAV4. It has EV range ~40 mls to cover daily commute, and gasoline engine to go on field trips without warries of getting stranded once the battery run out of juice.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Celestron/Vixen Giant 20x80; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50 & 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV; Meade: UWA, SWA.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 2625 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2085, S110: 77). Doubles: 1831, Comets: 26, Asteroids: 133
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Re: Electric vehicles

#13

Post by Juno16 »

Sounds like a great car Stephen @smp.

If I were younger and drove more (I’m retired and don’t drive much), I would definitely go for an ev. Probably something like am F150 Lightning.
In south Mississippi, charging stations are sparse, but there ate enough. A 240v 40a plug in the garage like Stephen mentioned is the way to go.
My son has a Tesla Model 3 long range and it is the most exhilarating vehicle I’ve ever driven (the safest too).
Full self driving is mind blowing and would take me awhile to get comfortable with (goes with age), but is really amazing and certainly the future.

I have a 2010 Tacome 4 cly. 5 speed that only has 60k miles. It should last me for awhile. Well, as long as I can operate a clutch!
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Re: Electric vehicles

#14

Post by KingNothing13 »

Chevy Bolt's are going to be dropping in price for the 2023 model year:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/01/cars/che ... index.html

We are considering the EUV - but likely would not happen until next year sometime. We also have solar panels, but they only produce about 70% of our overall electricity.

Having said that, I had a 2011 Prius - which was great, I do not remember the mileage I got on it, but it was really good.

Gave it to my father-in-law, and bought a 2018 Prius Prime - plugin that has an all electric motor good for ~30 miles, then a regular hybrid engine. When the pandemic hit, and we stopped driving, I don't think I needed to get gas in for about 10 months. We sold that one though just over a year ago now for various reasons.
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Re: Electric vehicles

#15

Post by smp »

Bigzmey wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:00 pm Fortunately, we have purchased our house with solar already installed, so we are halfway there. We had very good experience with Toyota Prius hybrid (none-plug in), so for my next car I am considering plug-in RAV4. It has EV range ~40 mls to cover daily commute, and gasoline engine to go on field trips without warries of getting stranded once the battery run out of juice.

Andrey, I agree entirely! Battery EVs today with their short-ish range, along with the general lack of chargers make the hybrid EV the absolute best choice. When the charger situation improves, then battery EVs will become more of a choice for folks other than just for driving close to home, or for short commuting distances.

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Re: Electric vehicles

#16

Post by The Wave Catcher »

I have a 2015 Nissan LEAF EV and a 2021 Chevy Bolt EV. My family and I live in Fort Worth, Texas and I gave my last gas car to my mother. I’ve never had any reason to regret going all EV. They don’t have to be as expensive as everyone thinks, especially here where so many drive $70k+ trucks.
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Re: Electric vehicles

#17

Post by Lady Fraktor »

@KingNothing13 there are a few smaller electric vehicles for sale here but Chevrolet is not one of the brands unless you buy a Opel.

@smp when we relocated we had to build a shop so decided to install wind generators, we first looked at solar but the winter skies do not make it a good option but no problem with wind! It has only been connected for 10 days but so far we are feeding more into the grid than we are using.
The Mustang sounds like a good vehicle. Hopefully manufacturers can increase the range soon and we can seriously start looking at alternatives.
Refractors: Antares 105mm f/15 (modified), Celestron 150mm f/8 (modified), Homemade 70mm f/10 (LZOS K8/F13 doublet), Stellarvue NHNG Deluxe 80mm f/6.9, TAL 100RS f/10, Vixen SD115s f/7.7
EQ Mounts: Celestron CG-5, Celestron ASGT (modified), TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP/ Berlebach Planet
Az/ Alt Mounts: Celestron SLT (modified), Manfrotto 055B/ RC28, Manfrotto 028B/ Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Diagonal: 2” Astro-Physics MaxBright, 2” Stellarvue Deluxe, 2” TAL dielectric, 2” TeleVue Everbrite, 1.25" Vixen flip mirror, 2” Baader DX-2 Amici prism, 2” Long Perng Amici prism, 2” Baader Herschel wedge
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss, now only slightly more than 1 person requires!
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Re: Electric vehicles

#18

Post by Richard »

Unfortunately I have never owned an full Electric car but did drive a Nisan Leaf once which was the cheapest sold in RSA , considering its price was not a great vehicle , about the same as a C class Mercedes here ! I know that some countries encourage the use of EV cars by giving a tax credit-discount but not here in RSA
What I am confused about is that EV cars have much fewer moving parts , the body and interior is the same so why do they cost so much more ? I know the battery is quite expensive but then there is no gearbox etc so should be at most 10% more. Makes you wonder why the owner of Tesla is so rich!
EV cars make absolutely no sense in RSA and other 3rd world countries , no back up power charging , lots of power cuts etc and charging them with solar panels is a joke , unless your roof is covered with them and the sun is shinning
I have solar panels at home here in RSA as we get a lot of sun probably double that of Czech or other central Europe countries but we cant connect to the grid and have to store the power in batteries which is not ideal , so its to have power when there is none , like a 'cheap generator'

My brother has a fast flowing stream next to his property in Janov in Czech but was not allowed to install a turbine to generate electricity as the Electricity , fuel has skyrocketed so a wind generator is an option
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GCoyote
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Re: Electric vehicles

#19

Post by GCoyote »

Richard wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:38 pm Unfortunately I have never owned an full Electric car but did drive a Nisan Leaf once which was the cheapest sold in RSA , considering its price was not a great vehicle , about the same as a C class Mercedes here ! I know that some countries encourage the use of EV cars by giving a tax credit-discount but not here in RSA
What I am confused about is that EV cars have much fewer moving parts , the body and interior is the same so why do they cost so much more ? I know the battery is quite expensive but then there is no gearbox etc so should be at most 10% more. Makes you wonder why the owner of Tesla is so rich! ...
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With no mechanical transmission, the frame and resulting weight distribution of an EV or a hybrid can be quite different from current production ICE models. That means there is less commonality of parts than one would expect. Manufacturers, Tesla included, are still learning to optimize EVs for mass production and mass markets with the recent trade wars, pandemic, and resultant supply chain issues making this a particularly bad time to launch new products. However most manufacturers seem to feel they have no choice but to get into the EV market now or risk losing market share to the competition. Some US manufacturers are so far behind the demand for their products that they have stopped taking new orders for some models.

Some of the demand as well is driven by eco-conscious consumers wanting to go green and by high fuel prices. Lack of used vehicles to fill in the market at lower prices points is also keeping demand for new vehicles higher than normal.

tl;dr - the huge price differential is likely temporary.
Last edited by GCoyote on Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electric vehicles

#20

Post by helicon »

I've surprised myself that I have not yet purchased a Tesla. In Silicon Valley they are amazingly popular.

Here in northern Washington, not so much.

Since my nephew works at Tesla I've asked him about getting a discount. But Tesla (and E. Musk) don't even have employee discounts.

Anyway, I may splurge for the Cybertruck if it ever gets produced.
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