Flame Nebula + B33 Horsehead

Discuss deep sky objects.
Post Reply
User avatar
davesellars
Pluto Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri May 31, 2019 1:02 pm
4
Location: UK
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Flame Nebula + B33 Horsehead

#1

Post by davesellars »


We're currently at a great time to see both of these (given a clear sky obviously).

I'm currently in Bortle 5 sky which is allegedly 19.9 SQM on a good night. The Flame nebula to me in this sky is neglible with my 12" dob although maybe I really need to improve my dark adaption (sit in the same place covered for a good 20 / 30 mins) I've used UHC and Hbeta filter which hasn't helped much. I believe that this nebula at this SQM it's currently being washed out too much for the filter to work effectively...

I should be able to get to a site which is not far away which is 20.5 SQM / Bortle 4 - however that would mean using my 120ST. Will that amount of artificial brightness decrease be sufficient to make up for the lack of aperture to get a better view of the flame and even perhaps attempt the Horsehead? What are your viewing conditions / aperture used on observation of the Flame and HH?
SW Flextube 12" Dobsonian.
Starfield ED102 f/7; SW ED80; SW 120ST
EQ5 and AZ4 mounts
Eyepieces: TV Delos 17.3 & 10; Pentax XW 7 & 5; BCO 32,18,10; Fuyiyama Ortho 12.5; Vixen SLV 25.
User avatar
Mike Q United States of America
Jupiter Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:23 pm
Location: Monnett, Ohio USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: Flame Nebula + B33 Horsehead

#2

Post by Mike Q »


Its a shame no one answered this. I am going to take a stab at the Horsehead myself when Orion graces our skies again. The H Beta arrived today and it will get put in my ES 30mm and using my 16 inch i hope to be able to get a look at it
Orion Skyline 10 Inch
Orion XX16G
Stellina
AT102EDL
User avatar
kt4hx United States of America
Moderator
Moderator
Articles: 4
Online
Posts: 3489
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 12:18 am
4
Location: Virginia, USA
Status:
Online

TSS Awards Badges

Re: Flame Nebula + B33 Horsehead

#3

Post by kt4hx »


My apologies to Dave for not seeing his post at the time. But I do have some experience with NGC 2024 the Flame Nebula. Though, admittedly, this was an observation with my 17.5 inch at a Bortle 3 location (our dark site house). I did observe Barnard 33 many, many years ago, but that was at a time when I did not keep notes. My main interest is also galaxies. I now keep notes and need to revisit B33 at some point. I would not recommend the HaB filter for the Flame, but certainly for the HH. For the Flame, a narrow-band nebula filter such as the DGM NPB usually provides the most detail - even more so than an O-III - talking visually here of course.


NGC 2024 (Orion, emission nebula, size=30.0’x30.0’):
I next quickly took a look at the famous Flame Nebula northeast of Alnitak, the eastern-most belt star. With 110x and no filter it was quite apparent, as two sections separated by a very apparent dark lane. Both sections displayed ragged uneven edges, with smaller, intrusive dark lanes piercing their structure. They also exhibited varying brightness and density levels within their respective structures. Dropping in the DGM NPB filter, the view became even more entrancing. The filter significantly boosted the contrast and with it, the depth of the details already noted. Not as gloriously bright to the eye as M42, it was nonetheless a beautiful and memorable delicate structure.
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
User avatar
Bigzmey United States of America
Moderator
Moderator
Articles: 8
Online
Posts: 7548
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 7:55 pm
4
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Status:
Online

TSS Awards Badges

Re: Flame Nebula + B33 Horsehead

#4

Post by Bigzmey »


Not sure how I missed this thread, but it is better late than ever. :) I have made dozens of attempts over the years at the Horsehead. Finally in November 2019 I have managed to resolve it during morning session under Bortle 4 desert sky.

Horsehead (B33) – dark nebula
Past midnight Orion was rich in stars and high up in the sky. Time to revisit the dreaded Horsehead. :) In the past I have dedicated countless sessions and hours for no luck. Once again, I went thorough my arsenal of EPs and filters, until suddenly spotted very faint silhouette with averted vision.

There was a very faint patchy glow coming from the Orion Dagger nebula (IC 434) and within this glow I could just barely pick a ted darker protrusion. 8” SCT/TV Plossl 40mm (51x, 4mm EP), Lumicon H-beta filter. I noticed exit pupil/filter combo and reproduced it in my 150ST. Surely enough, I saw the same faint shape. 150ST/BCO 18mm (42x, 3.6mm EP) and TV Plossl 26mm (29x, 5.2mm), Lumicon H-beta filter. After going back and forth I feel that 150ST/BCO 18mm combo delivered slightly better contrast than the other two.

It did not work with any other filter (UHC/narrow band, LP/broad band) I have tried, any wide field EP, or exit pupil smaller than 3.6mm. With wide field EPs the issue was the bright glare of Zeta and Sigma Ori extinguishing faint glow of IC 434. Smaller exit pupil led to the same result: no IC 434 - no Horsehead.

Thinking about previous sessions I believe I have saw the glimpses of the Horsehead in the past. This time however a ted brighter IC 434 background helped to pushed it from the domain of averted imagination to the realm of averted reality.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
User avatar
Lady Fraktor Slovakia
Co-Administrator
Co-Administrator
Articles: 0
Online
Posts: 9860
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:14 pm
4
Location: Slovakia
Status:
Online

Re: Flame Nebula + B33 Horsehead

#5

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Mike Q wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 1:03 am Its a shame no one answered this. I am going to take a stab at the Horsehead myself when Orion graces our skies again. The H Beta arrived today and it will get put in my ES 30mm and using my 16 inch i hope to be able to get a look at it
A 30 mm eyepiece in your 16" newtonian will give a 6.77 mm exit pupil and may be to much depending on your eyesight.
With a H-Beta filter a 5 mm exit pupil is the sweet spot.
A 20 mm in your telescope will give a 4.57 mm ex and a 24 mm will give 5.4 mm so if you have something in between those it would be a great place to start.
Either way good luck with the observation :)
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
The only culture I have is from yogurt
My day was going well until... people
Image
User avatar
Mike Q United States of America
Jupiter Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:23 pm
Location: Monnett, Ohio USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: Flame Nebula + B33 Horsehead

#6

Post by Mike Q »


I always start with a 30 and work down. Unfortunately i jump from 20 to 24mm. On a side note as of last year my eyes are still quite good. At my last eye doctor appointment he measured my pupils and they opened up to just shy of 8mm. They might explain why i have very good night vision
Orion Skyline 10 Inch
Orion XX16G
Stellina
AT102EDL
User avatar
davesellars
Pluto Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri May 31, 2019 1:02 pm
4
Location: UK
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Flame Nebula + B33 Horsehead

#7

Post by davesellars »


Crikey, i forgot all about this thread... :p Anyway... Too late now for this season. With a mix of awful weather at the beginning of the year and then zero free time on my side I've not managed to get any astronomy done whatsoever this year. Hoping to get back into it soon enough (it's a bit too light at the moment and planets not well positioned for me yet until September at least...
SW Flextube 12" Dobsonian.
Starfield ED102 f/7; SW ED80; SW 120ST
EQ5 and AZ4 mounts
Eyepieces: TV Delos 17.3 & 10; Pentax XW 7 & 5; BCO 32,18,10; Fuyiyama Ortho 12.5; Vixen SLV 25.
User avatar
Mike Q United States of America
Jupiter Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:23 pm
Location: Monnett, Ohio USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: Flame Nebula + B33 Horsehead

#8

Post by Mike Q »


davesellars wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:32 pm Crikey, i forgot all about this thread... :p Anyway... Too late now for this season. With a mix of awful weather at the beginning of the year and then zero free time on my side I've not managed to get any astronomy done whatsoever this year. Hoping to get back into it soon enough (it's a bit too light at the moment and planets not well positioned for me yet until September at least...
Aweful doesn't start to cover it. I have been out six times total. While the skies are getting better, they still arent what i would call good yet.
Orion Skyline 10 Inch
Orion XX16G
Stellina
AT102EDL
Post Reply

Create an account or sign in to join the discussion

You need to be a member in order to post a reply

Create an account

Not a member? register to join our community
Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics
It’s free and only takes a minute

Register

Sign in

Return to “Deep sky”