Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
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Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
The Baader Classic Orthoscopic is a wider field ortho, based on information from Zeiss research, that has a 50 degree field.
Understanding that the two eyepieces have different numbers and configurations of elements, with most likely different types of glass, I expect them to have different focal points, but wonder how they differ in behavior to the human eye, given that the goal of their designs are basically the same and the research came from the same source.
I am thinking specifically of the Celestron Ultima 18mm and the Baader Classic Ortho 18mm. One is rare and the other is common.
Any thoughts?
Many small scopes, plus a Lightbridge 12, LX 70-8R,6R,6M
Many eyepieces, just not really expensive ones.
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
Anything different than that is not a pseudo Masuyama
Both 18mm eyepieces are 2-2 design (Plossl) and not pseudos (if I recall correctly). Orthoscopic is just a term meaning free of aberrations, not a actual design like Masuyama, Plossl or Abbe.
I may be wrong with Celestron, I will have to check
Bigzmey did a 18mm comparison a while ago, perhaps ask him?
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1000101)
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
Personally I love my pseudos so I am biased towards them.
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1000101)
The only culture I have is from yogurt
- Bigzmey
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
Here is the thing though. One good
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Delos, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/4524 ... on-ultima/
And some older related material:
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/4988 ... ntry649359
Celestron CPC1100 SCT....Celestron Evolution 8 SCT...TeleVue-85 apo...SkyWatcher ST150 achro..ST102 achro..ST80 achro.
Celestron AVX...Orion Atlas EQ-G...SkyTee-2...Twilight-1.
Baader BBHS prism and mirror diagonals + Vernonscope quartz 1.25"
EPs: TeleVue oldie (NJ) & modern Plossls, Widefields, and Naglers + 3-6 zoom & Brandons 6-32.
Astronomik, Lumicon & Baader filters..
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
According to a review by @WilliamPaolini only the 32mm BCO is a 2-2 Plössl heritage design and the other BCOs are 3-1 Abbe based.Lady Fraktor wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:23 pm From looking around the Celestron is a 5 element so possibly a pseudo Masuyama but the Baader is a standard 2-2 Plossl/ Symmetrical design.
Personally I love my pseudos so I am biased towards them.
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/3822 ... try4893450
I tend to agree with BillP on this but I could always dissect my 18mm to make sure.
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
https://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/c ... t-mc).html
Either way they work well
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1000101)
The only culture I have is from yogurt
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
Agreed that they work well and are just about the best bang per unit of currency out there! But on the page you link there is the ambiguous:Lady Fraktor wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:48 am That is strange as Baader calls them Plossl.
https://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/c ... t-mc).html
Either way they work well
which is clarified(?) furtherBaader Classic Ortho/Plössl (Q-Turret) 1¼" Eyepieces
So a 3-1 design.The lens assembly consists of a triplet-element and one plano-convex eye lens, so there are only four glass-air-surfaces. The interior has been blackened for a very good suppression of stray light. Of course, the hard anodised barrel has got a filter thread.
So they are using "Classic Ortho" to mean Abbe and "Classic Plössl" to mean Plössl. Sorry, the formatting of the specification table isn't getting preserved. I recommend the link.Technical data of the Baader Classic (Q-Turret) eyepieces
Focal length (mm) Optical design Barrel Lens elements / groups Apparent field of view Parfocal EyeRelief
(mm) Field stop (mm) Height (mm) Diameter Weight
6 Classic Ortho 1¼" 4 / 2 52° yes 5 5 34,2 34,8 37g
10 Classic Ortho 1¼" 4 / 2 52° yes 8 8,7 41,12 34,8 48g
18 Classic Ortho 1¼" 4 / 2 52° yes 14,67 16,8 54,46 34,8 81g
32 Classic Plössl 1¼" 4 / 2 50° yes 21 26 78,8 34,8 94g
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1000101)
The only culture I have is from yogurt
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
I've often pleaded that as well. Completely understandable!
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
The Question: If I were to look through both on the same high quality refractor, what differences in the view do you think I would see?
Many small scopes, plus a Lightbridge 12, LX 70-8R,6R,6M
Many eyepieces, just not really expensive ones.
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
Both are good eyepieces, differences would be more subtle.
Possibly a slight difference in colour rendition from coatings, light scatter though this should be minimal with these eyepieces.
A lot depends on the telescope. A Masuyama is designed for
Either one would work well
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1000101)
The only culture I have is from yogurt
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
Also, what are you viewing? If a stellarLady Fraktor wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:11 pm Define in the view
Both are good eyepieces, differences would be more subtle.
Possibly a slight difference in colour rendition from coatings, light scatter though this should be minimal with these eyepieces.
A lot depends on the telescope. A Masuyama is designed for f/7 and longer though using one in a shorter telescope can start showing some aberrations along the FOV edge, the Abbe would be good for f/5-6.
Either one would work well
I've not done a comparison on lunar/planetary targets. So I wouldn't hazard a guess.
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
I think Baader pushed the Abbe design a bit too far to gain a wider field, but at the loss of some edge sharpness.
Though, at
Currently using a 12.5" dob and a 4" apo refractor
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
The scopes I am planning for the astroplans are two
Many small scopes, plus a Lightbridge 12, LX 70-8R,6R,6M
Many eyepieces, just not really expensive ones.
- Lady Fraktor
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
At the stated focal lengths either eyepiece will perform well.
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1000101)
The only culture I have is from yogurt
- notFritzArgelander
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Re: Thoughts on Celestron Ultima 18mm vs Baader Classic Ortho 18mm?
Agreed. You really can't go wrong with either type. The only way is to be unlucky and get something that is a bad example. QC on both is quite good I believe.Lady Fraktor wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:20 pm I love my achromats
At the stated focal lengths either eyepiece will perform well.
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