Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

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WilliamPaolini United States of America
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Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#1

Post by WilliamPaolini »


Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison
by WilliamPaolini

Back Row ( 2" ) Baader Zeiss Prism, Takahashi Aluminum Mirror, Astro-Tech Dielectric, Baader Dielectric, Astro-Physics MaxBright Dielectric Center Row ( 1.25" ) Baader T2 Zeiss Prism, VERNONscope Enhanced Silver Mirror, Takahashi Prism, Tele Vue Everbrite Dielectric Front Row ( 1.25" ) Vixen Prism,...
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-Bill

U.S.A.F. Veteran - Visual Amateur Astronomer since 1966 - Fully Retired since 2019
8" f/5 Newt - Lunt 152 f/7.9 - TSA 102 f/8 - Vixen 81S f/7.7 - P.S.T. - Pentax 65ED II - Nikon 12x50 AE
Pentax XWs - Baader Morpheus - Takahashi LEs - Edmund RKEs - BST Starguiders - 6ZAO-II/5XO/4Abbe
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#2

Post by Bigzmey »


Thanks for reposting Bill! For those who did not see it on Cloudy Nights, this is a must read for any frac/CAT owner. People who are using premium EPs behind stock diagonals are kidding themselves. :D
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#3

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Bigzmey wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:59 pm Thanks for reposting Bill! For those who did not see it on Cloudy Nights, this is a must read for any frac/CAT owner. People who are using premium EPs behind stock diagonals are kidding themselves. :D
Fully agreed!
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#4

Post by Thefatkitty »


Thanks for the info Bill, that is quite the write-up! You've taken your experience and put a lot of time and effort into that and shared it with everyone. Much appreciated :D

I don't have a lot of extra coin for my favourite hobby, but I do the best with what I have. That being said, I have a total of two 1.25 diagonals. One came with the orange tube C80 I bought years ago, and the other, an iOptron, was bought for me as a gift.

Image2.jpg
Image3.jpg

I have to say in this case, the stock star diagonal is the hands-down winner. I'm assuming it's a prism, as when I took it apart and cleaned it with distilled water and the black felt, that's the shape the glass was...

The iOptron is good, but the Celestron diagonal has a blacker background, the stars and especially the Moon/Sun are more sharply defined, and it's sharp in the FOV right to the edge, whereas the iOptron shows a bit of distortion in that area.

I've never looked through anything else, so that's just what I know. I'm quite happy with the views through my C80 with it's star diagonal and some Fujiyama KK's :)

All the best,
Mark

"The Hankmeister" Celestron 8SE, orange tube Vixen made C80, CG4 & AZ-EQ5 mounts.
Too much Towa glass/mirrors.

H/A - PST stage 2 mod with a Baader 90mm ERF on a Celestron XLT 102 (thanks Mike!)
Ca-K - W/O 61mm, Antares 1.6 barlow, Baader 3.8 OD and Ca-K filters with a ZWO ASI174mm.
W/L - C80-HD with Baader 5.0 & 3.8 Solar film, Solar Continuum 7.5nm and UV/IR filters with a Canon EOS 550D.

Oh yeah, and Solar Cycle 25 :D
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#5

Post by DeanD »


Thanks for this Bill! It is quite a while since I originally read this, so it was a good exercise to do a re-read!

It would be interesting to see how the newer Chinese-made dielectric 2" diagonals stack up (like the GSO quartz). One of these days I would like to get a 2" Baader Zeiss prism, but for now my Tak 1 1/4 and TV 2" Everbrite will have to do. ;)

I must admit, like you I was very surprised to see the plastic Tak when I got it (I picked up both of these on the Used market). Also, like you, I doubt that I will ever part with my TSA102!

All the best, and keep up the great work!

Dean
Telescopes: 12" f5 dob, Celestron CPC800, 150mmf5 Celestron achro, Tak TSA102, TV76, ETX125...
Binos: Steiner Wildlife XP 10x26, Swarovski 8x30 Habicht, Zeiss SFL 8x40, Vanguard Endeavour 10.5x45, Fuji FMTR-SX 10x50, Tak 22x60, Orion Resolux 15x70
Eyepieces: way too many (is that possible?), but I do like my TV 32mm plossl, 13mm Nagler T6, 27mm Panoptic and 3-6mm Nagler zoom, plus Fujiyama 18mm and 25mm orthos and Tak 7.5mm LE
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#6

Post by Lady Fraktor »


A excellent review Bill, ou of curiousity did you ever get to try the Vernonscope gold diagonal?
I was always interested in how well it actually performed.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#7

Post by mikemarotta »


Thanks! You should get paid for this. Have you thought of submitting it? There's half a dozen outlets for work of this quality.
---------------------------------------
Michael E. Marotta
Astro-Tech 115 mm APO Refractor Explore Scientific 102 mm f/6.47 Refractor Explore Scientific 102 mm f/9.8 Refractor Bresser 8-inch Newtonian Reflector Plössls from 40 to 6 mm Nagler Series-1 7mm. nonMeade 14 mm. Mounts: Celestron AVX, Explore Twilight I Alt-Az, Explore EXOS German Equatorial
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#8

Post by Richard »


Can one still get a new astronomy prism diagonals , I used to have a WO one , but was the correct image type ?
Reflectors GSO 200 Dobs
Refractors None
SCT C5 on a SLT mount
Mak 150 Bosma on a EQ5
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#9

Post by John Baars »


Thanks for this thorough and excellent article! Outstanding quality.
In the past I referred to it several times while advising people about what diagonal to buy. And I will continue to do so.
Refractors in frequency of use : *SW Evostar 120ED F/7.5 (all round ), * Vixen 102ED F/9 (vintage), both on Vixen GPDX.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ : *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
Amateur astronomer since 1970.
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#10

Post by Lady Fraktor »


A great article Bill, a handy reference indeed.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#11

Post by Bigzmey »


Richard wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:15 pm Can one still get a new astronomy prism diagonals , I used to have a WO one , but was the correct image type ?
Yes, the brand new prisms are still available from many brands (Baader, Celestron, Orion, WO, just to name a few).
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#12

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Many manufacturers make prisms, there are only a few that make 2" versions though.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#13

Post by mikemarotta »


Richard wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:15 pm Can one still get a new astronomy prism diagonals , I used to have a WO one , but was the correct image type ?
I just bought one also image-correcting from StellarVue and wrote it up here:
https://www.theskysearchers.com/viewtop ... 34&t=18441
Stellarvue D1027A 90-deg prism w focusser copy.jpg
---------------------------------------
Michael E. Marotta
Astro-Tech 115 mm APO Refractor Explore Scientific 102 mm f/6.47 Refractor Explore Scientific 102 mm f/9.8 Refractor Bresser 8-inch Newtonian Reflector Plössls from 40 to 6 mm Nagler Series-1 7mm. nonMeade 14 mm. Mounts: Celestron AVX, Explore Twilight I Alt-Az, Explore EXOS German Equatorial
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#14

Post by Richard »


Thanks all we have so little astro equipment for sale here in RSA and have not seen any for a few years now and now virtually impossible to order on line due to cost , years ago I did get one off ebay but was rubbish , it was all metal but badly made with lots of light scatter , I did open it and painted all black inside (was left shiny!) which helped a bit but was still terrible , probably an inferior prism
I quite liked the WO one where the actual prism was much larger but was no better than my normal celestron/Skywatcher ones , only advantage was correct image orientation which probably reduced its effectiveness for astro use ?
Reflectors GSO 200 Dobs
Refractors None
SCT C5 on a SLT mount
Mak 150 Bosma on a EQ5
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#15

Post by Mike Q »


I am almost ashamed to say that I have a 2 inch astro tech dielectric on my AT102. They now come with twist lock and thumbscrew. I am probably not picky enough but i dont notice anything terrible in it. The frac is just a travel scope and now that i have it sorted it wont really see a lot of use and i guess i didnt feel like spending the money on a really good diagonal.
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#16

Post by Bigzmey »


Mike Q wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:42 pm I am almost ashamed to say that I have a 2 inch astro tech dielectric on my AT102. They now come with twist lock and thumbscrew. I am probably not picky enough but i dont notice anything terrible in it. The frac is just a travel scope and now that i have it sorted it wont really see a lot of use and i guess i didnt feel like spending the money on a really good diagonal.
Actually, the typical 2" dielectrics offered by many companies are pretty good, in particular for DSOs. I was happily observing with them for many years. But, premium diagonals are better. Like in any other hobby this is a game of performance vs price and everyone should look for their optimal ratio.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#17

Post by Mike Q »


Bigzmey wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2024 12:25 am
Mike Q wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:42 pm I am almost ashamed to say that I have a 2 inch astro tech dielectric on my AT102. They now come with twist lock and thumbscrew. I am probably not picky enough but i dont notice anything terrible in it. The frac is just a travel scope and now that i have it sorted it wont really see a lot of use and i guess i didnt feel like spending the money on a really good diagonal.
Actually, the typical 2" dielectrics offered by many companies are pretty good, in particular for DSOs. I was happily observing with them for many years. But, premium diagonals are better. Like in any other hobby this is a game of performance vs price and everyone should look for their optimal ratio.
I am content with this one. Like i say the frac doesn't get a lot of use. I guess if i had a better one i would have sprung for a better diagonal, but what i have gets the job done well enough for us.
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#18

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Mike Q wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:42 pm I am almost ashamed to say that I have a 2 inch astro tech dielectric on my AT102.
I do not understand why you would be ashamed of this?
I have used 2" diagonals (aluminized and dielectric) with all my refractors 80 mm and larger.

Unless you are using your refractor at the limits of its optical capability you do not really require a top tier diagonal.
If you are just doing casual observing your AT diagonal will serve you just as well as a Vernonscope $1000 USD 2" diagonal.
The small percentage difference in the view is not really worth the cost.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Mirror vs. Dielectric vs. Prism Diagonal Comparison

#19

Post by Mike Q »


Yeah with the 102 casual is the name of the game. We are far and away reflector people and definitely in the bigger is better group lol
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