Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
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Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
Seasons Greetings and Peace in the New Year to ALL!
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
Cheers,
JT
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
https://www.amazon.com/Star-Testing-Ast ... 0943396905
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
Artificial star (maximum) size: Ø ~ L/3000D
λ=0.00055mm, W=λ/20, L=distance from artificial star [mm], D=aperture [mm]
That is, the ornament just needs to be put quite far away.Artificial star distance: L ~ D^2/(512*W*F^2)
L= (minium) distance [mm], D=aperture [mm], W= P-V wavefront-error, F= F-number
"For instance, by substituting W=λ/20=0.0000275mm for λ=550nm, gives the distance for this error level for D=400mm, ƒ/4, as L=710m. "
W=λ/20=0.0000275mm for λ=550nm (= 0,00055 mm)
L = 160000 / (512*0.0000275*16) = 160 000 / 0,22528 = 710227,2 mm ~ 710 m
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
My favored scope is the
Scopes: ES102 apo carbonfiber, Orion 127 mac/cas
Binos: B&L Legacy 10x50, Canon 15x50 image stabilized
Mounts: ES Twilight 1 & Exos2 goto, Orion Sky View Pro (non-goto) Targus monopod w/Manfrotto ball head
Eyepieces: Orion plossl 10 & 25, ES 24 & 16 68º, Baader Morpheus 12.5, ES 8.8 & 4.7 82º and SWM 20 70º w/ crosshairs.
Filters Orion 13 & 25% moon filter, and a sky glow
Diagonal: ES dieletric, Baader T2 BBHS mirror
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
Cheers,
JT
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6R, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
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∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100 ∞ AP Gear: ZWO EAF and mini EFW and the Optolong L-eXteme filter
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
These: λ=0.00055mm, W=λ/20 mention about the validity of the first equation. It's valid for 1/20 wavelength of light when the light used is 550 nm (yellowish green). The eye is most sensitive to this.konza wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:57 am Oh my turbo, your response is technically way over this guys head. Would it be possible to dumb it down for a person awash (noobie) when it comes to mathematical thing? i.e.: globe size. distance to the artificial star, or any ancillary requirements? To reference how a star test should appear is no mystery, plenty of pictures on the net for that.
My favored scope is the ES 102 listed in profile. I'm 100% visual and have no desire to tinker, and perhaps mess up collimation myself but simply wish to verify that I have the best i can get from my optics. (if adjustment is required I live within 1:15 drive time to the ES home store in Springdale Ar. so no big deal if needed) Not having to manually chase a chosen test star across the sky would so simplify things for novice as I've become endeared to my Orion SVP non-goto mount...
Then the diameter of the artificial star should be L/3000*D where L is the distance from the ornament to the mirror/lens and D is the diameter of the lens (all in millimeters).
The second equation gives you the distance for the first equation:
L ~ D^2/(512*W*F^2)
The distance is about
The wavefront error here is 1/20 vavelength of that same 550 nm light (= 1/20 * 0.00055 mm). and if you have an
You could, probably, do with bigger error, like 1/10 or even 1/4.
That is, the distance depends on your scope (diameter of the mirror/lens and F-number) as well as the diameter of your ornament.
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
Artificial star (maximum) size: Ø ~ L/3000D
λ=0.00055mm, W=λ/20, L=distance from artificial star [mm], D=aperture [mm]
That led to a "sister forum" that also discussed this issue. If anyone is interested it may be worthwhile they check it out. Too bad the old AF is no more as that may have been where i first seen it.
Thank you
Scopes: ES102 apo carbonfiber, Orion 127 mac/cas
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Mounts: ES Twilight 1 & Exos2 goto, Orion Sky View Pro (non-goto) Targus monopod w/Manfrotto ball head
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Filters Orion 13 & 25% moon filter, and a sky glow
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
L = Ø * 3000 * D
If the ornament diameter is 60 mm and the telescope
For
If I understood it right, the idea is to see the artificial star in an angle that corresponds to 1/4 of the diameter of the airy disk for 550 nm light.
Artificial star distance: L ~ D^2/(512*W*F^2)
For error W = λ/4 = 0.00055 mm / 4 = 0.000138 mm, D = 102 mm,
L = 10404 / (512 * 0.000138 * 49) = 10404 / 3.462144 = 3005 mm
Ø = 3005/(3000 * 102) = 0.010 mm.
=> you could check the
My source was https://www.telescope-optics.net/star_t ... escope.htm
Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
Konza if you are just wanting to check the collimation of your telescope then a rough approximation is 2 metres distance for every 1 inch of
A 4" refractor would require 30 feet as a minimum distance. (4x2=8+1=9 metres)
Again if you just want to check collimation then purchase a refractor collimating eyepiece and you can check it anytime indoors and distance is not required.
https://agenaastro.com/agena-1-25-colli ... ctors.html
If you are looking to star test then a artificial star is handy but there are other factors to take into account.
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
I don't think 30 feet is enough if you're using a Christmas ornament as an artificial star.Lady Fraktor wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:21 pm Turbo I think you need to put the calculator aside!!
Konza if you are just wanting to check the collimation of your telescope then a rough approximation is 2 metres distance for every 1 inch of aperture +1 metre will do fine.
A 4" refractor would require 30 feet as a minimum distance. (4x2=8+1=9 metres)
Again if you just want to check collimation then purchase a refractor collimating eyepiece and you can check it anytime indoors and distance is not required.
https://agenaastro.com/agena-1-25-colli ... ctors.html
If you are looking to star test then a artificial star is handy but there are other factors to take into account.
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Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
Your results in miles are incredibly off, and I suspect you are using the wrong formula for figuring out collimation distances.
My artificial stars range from 0.5mm to 0.20mm for different telescopes.
A ornament will work but you need to know what size point source is required which is a different calculation than distance required.
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
Regards
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
Yes. It seems those formuli are for checking the optics. I haven't found anything about requirements for collimation. Those formuli give the size and distance for point source that gives 550 nm light 1/4 airy disk size. Using Dawes limit giver pretty much the same results. Then again, 0.5mm is less than 1/100 of 60 mm.Lady Fraktor wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:01 am 30 feet is just fine for a minimum distance for collimation for a 100mm f/7 refractor.
Your results in miles are incredibly off, and I suspect you are using the wrong formula for figuring out collimation distances.
My artificial stars range from 0.5mm to 0.20mm for different telescopes.
A ornament will work but you need to know what size point source is required which is a different calculation than distance required.
Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
Found out I could not use it as there was no where in my yard far enough away. I would have to put it about halfway out in my neighbor's yard... that aint gonna work.
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
I found somewhere in the net:
The "object" is not the ball itself, but the image of the Sun on it.The focal length of the 2" ball bearing is 1/2" or 12.7mm.
Thus the diameter of the image formed of the sun is about d = 127 microns
Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
If you have figured out the distance you need to star test, shorten that distance for collimating to 70% of the distance and it will work fine.UlteriorModem wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:15 pm I bought an arti star. It's basically a flash light with a cover and tiny pin holes in it.
Found out I could not use it as there was no where in my yard far enough away. I would have to put it about halfway out in my neighbor's yard... that aint gonna work.
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5
I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.
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Re: Artificial Star using Christmas tree ornament ?
You need to figure out the resolution of the telescope, I will see if I can find my book with the formulas.
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1000101)
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