worst light pollution ever?
- realflow100
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worst light pollution ever?
is my light pollution really bad if the orion constellation and nebula looks the same even when the sky is getting brighter in the morning?
the sky is clearly glowing a dull green-ish blue color this morning around like 6:20 to 6:30 or so
around 6:00 the sky was dark but orion nebula didnt look any different with my 4-inch telescope before or after the sky started getting lighter
naked eye I could still see 3 faint pairs of stars where orion nebula is. and a few other stars around it
even with a half moon out too. the moon makes no difference full or new moon to the light pollution.
I could still see the same amount of nebula either way. around 6:00 or 6:30 just with a brighter background sky. the stars and nebula look almost the same either way. not any fainter than before.
orion nebula is just barely visible as a faint glow with some bright stars in it. with a dark dust pillar going toward the middle. but not really any other detail. its very featureless.
the sky is clearly glowing a dull green-ish blue color this morning around like 6:20 to 6:30 or so
around 6:00 the sky was dark but orion nebula didnt look any different with my 4-inch telescope before or after the sky started getting lighter
naked eye I could still see 3 faint pairs of stars where orion nebula is. and a few other stars around it
even with a half moon out too. the moon makes no difference full or new moon to the light pollution.
I could still see the same amount of nebula either way. around 6:00 or 6:30 just with a brighter background sky. the stars and nebula look almost the same either way. not any fainter than before.
orion nebula is just barely visible as a faint glow with some bright stars in it. with a dark dust pillar going toward the middle. but not really any other detail. its very featureless.
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- Ylem
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
Sounds like you might have a couple industries or school yards near by
I'm just south of Charlotte and mineLP is quite bearable.
I'm just south of Charlotte and mine
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- realflow100
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
I'm in orangeburg SC
I live in an apartment complex kind of place. Very bright streetlights EVERYWHERE like every 100 feet. another streetlight. its like daylight almost. they hurt your eyes a lot if you look directly at the streetlights for even a split second
The trees are bright and well lit up everywhere. you can see them glowing yell/orange with the naked eye brightly.
I live in an apartment complex kind of place. Very bright streetlights EVERYWHERE like every 100 feet. another streetlight. its like daylight almost. they hurt your eyes a lot if you look directly at the streetlights for even a split second
The trees are bright and well lit up everywhere. you can see them glowing yell/orange with the naked eye brightly.
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
Maybe try to get away to darker skies once in a while. The conditions at my home have degraded over the past five years. First, the city installed a streetlight across the street, which washes out views to the north. Next, a neighbor installed a motion detector light which they refuse to turn off. I now always use the trick of throwing an observing towel over my head so I can get dark adapted at the eyepiece.
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
You probably wouldn't have to travel to far, maybe 10 miles west at the most for decent skies.
If I recall there is maybe a couple of industries on 26, but you should be able to locate something.
Of course, there's no place like home, so I feel for you.
If I recall there is maybe a couple of industries on 26, but you should be able to locate something.
Of course, there's no place like home, so I feel for you.
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
Light Pollution?? I'm sure that you face some amount ofrealflow100 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:56 am is my light pollution really bad if the orion constellation and nebula looks the same even when the sky is getting brighter in the morning?
On a good night in Tampa, from Downtown I can visually make out the 3x Belt Stars of Orion but not always Saiph (and forget about the Sword and Nebula). In springtime it is often hard to complete Leo (and Spring is our Crispest Skies).
Or if you want a REAL TREAT, visit NYC or LA or CHI. I worked / lived in each of these Megalopolises, and you usually have to work at it to count more than 30-40 stars in a nighttime sky. I missed Hale-Bopp except for one early morning that I was able to drive up into the San Gabriels.
Does this mean that you are/aren't negatively impacted ?? Of course not.
But, you can do various things to improve your results:
1) Drive out to a Darker Location - SC doesn't have a lot of DARK, but it isn't far to get to Darker...
2) Make sure that your eyes are Dark-Adapted - use a Hoodie or a Towel over your Head (per helicon). Just remember that it takes dedication (about 20 min) to get well-adapted, and only a second to lose it.
3) Set up where Objects (Trees, Side of House, Tall Vehicle, Patio Umbrella) provide blockage of the worst nearby Light Sources...
4) Drive out to a Darker Location...
5) See #4...
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- Ylem
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
SC is actually a pretty dark state for the East.
There is a lot of private land, so finding a site can be a bit hard.
My club's site is in Taxahaw, SC, but that's pretty far for the OP to travel.
There is a lot of private land, so finding a site can be a bit hard.
My club's site is in Taxahaw, SC, but that's pretty far for the OP to travel.
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- realflow100
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
its way worse than any of you are thinking. Everywhere is FILLED with light pollution and crazy glaring bright streetlights.
the nearestbortle 3 with a full mile radius is like a hundred miles away unless you want to take a boat out to sea.
and by seeing orion nebula. I meant with a telescope only. its not visible with binoculars its much too faint at only 8x magnification.
its this bright EVERYWHERE for like a mile radius. even out in the field there is super bright streetlights at 2 sides of it glaring really brightly.
here is a video showing just how bad it is. mydslr picks up a lot more stars than my eyes see. its much worse in person and you can hardly see like 30 stars total in the night sky
im in orangeburg city. near columbia one of the big cities.
the nearest
and by seeing orion nebula. I meant with a telescope only. its not visible with binoculars its much too faint at only 8x magnification.
its this bright EVERYWHERE for like a mile radius. even out in the field there is super bright streetlights at 2 sides of it glaring really brightly.
here is a video showing just how bad it is. my
im in orangeburg city. near columbia one of the big cities.
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
Several years ago I attended a starparty in Santee State park.
I don't recall if you need a permit though at night.
That might be an option for decent sky.
I don't recall if you need a permit though at night.
That might be an option for decent sky.
Clear Skies,
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
These maps are approximations and are probably somewhat outdated, but it looks like you're in a 6. Of course, if you have a neighbor's light shining on you, you might be in a 10.
https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoo ... FFFFFFFFFF
I don't know your particular circumstances, but I've found it helpful to observe after midnight at home, preferably an hour or two before morning astro twilight begins. There are far fewer issues with neighbors' lights being on and such.
I can also see the day coming when I might have to go toEAA if I'm going to hope to see much observing at home. I'd prefer to stay visual, but...
https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoo ... FFFFFFFFFF
I don't know your particular circumstances, but I've found it helpful to observe after midnight at home, preferably an hour or two before morning astro twilight begins. There are far fewer issues with neighbors' lights being on and such.
I can also see the day coming when I might have to go to
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- realflow100
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
Its not neighbors lights problems. its the city/parking lot/road streetlights being extremely bright and excessively too frequent.
when I compare some variousbortle level charts to what I can see.
its a straight 9 for sure. Cant see hardly any stars naked eye. and the sky is very desolate and void with binoculars or telescope. only the very brightest stars visible.
when I compare some various
its a straight 9 for sure. Cant see hardly any stars naked eye. and the sky is very desolate and void with binoculars or telescope. only the very brightest stars visible.
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
If Orion and its nebula look similar with or without a moon, during the darkest period or as the morning sky is brightening, then yes you have serious LP . You also have to consider the glaring impact from nearby ground lighting that causes lost of contrast and of course serious impact to dark adaptation. If one lives in areas with significant LP , they are never able to attain deep dark adaptation. While all this compromises our ability to observe, it does not make it impossible. We just have to approach it with the knowledge that we are limited in what we can see and how well.
As has been indicated, getting away from that environment is the best of all fixes. Darker skies are the great equalizer and can make up for lack ofaperture . For example, my 10 or 12 in dobsonians utilized at our dark site house (typically Bortle 3), can keep pace quite well with my 17.5 inch utilized at our home (typically Bortle 5). That is why I keep the 17.5 inch at the dark site house permanently where it is used to its best advantage.
Of course not everyone has reasonable access to darker skies, but even moving one level on theBortle scale might seem profound. If that simply is not possible, or the opportunity is not frequent, then one must look for ways to mitigate their circumstances to the extent possible. While you cannot alter the general sky glow from area wide LP , you might be able to help yourself in terms of glaring. Being able to create a dark corner where you observe from that keeps any ground lighting from striking your scope and eyes is a tangible benefit. This will allow you to dark adapt a little deeper and protect valuable contrast through the eyepiece. Some utilize temporary screens with a small tarp, or may wear an eyepatch over the observing eye at all times except when looking through the eyepiece, or drape a dark cloth over the head and eyepiece to shield both from light coming in from the side.
This is not always an easy hobby to pursue. Most of us do not live in areas that are gloriously dark, and thus we have to try and make adjustments that will give us the best fighting chance for success. One thing I can tell you is that once you experience truly dark skies, you will be astounded.
As has been indicated, getting away from that environment is the best of all fixes. Darker skies are the great equalizer and can make up for lack of
Of course not everyone has reasonable access to darker skies, but even moving one level on the
This is not always an easy hobby to pursue. Most of us do not live in areas that are gloriously dark, and thus we have to try and make adjustments that will give us the best fighting chance for success. One thing I can tell you is that once you experience truly dark skies, you will be astounded.
Alan
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Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
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Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
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"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
“Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
You can also make peace with the Moon and planets at home.
I spent a lot of time with the moon at home it's amazing the details you can resolve.
I spent a lot of time with the moon at home it's amazing the details you can resolve.
Clear Skies,
-Jeff
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
I have to ask, are you looking atrealflow100 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:22 pm Its not neighbors lights problems. its the city/parking lot/road streetlights being extremely bright and excessively too frequent.
when I compare some various bortle level charts to what I can see.
its a straight 9 for sure. Cant see hardly any stars naked eye. and the sky is very desolate and void with binoculars or telescope. only the very brightest stars visible.
Any attempts to correlate his scale to maps is someone's attempt to meld two different methods for assessing the sky. The maps by their nature are static in presentation using night time satellite images and applying an algorithm that attempts to predict the spread of
The
As an example, the conditions at our dark site house are typically
Alan
Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
“Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
“Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
To back up what Alan is saying, here is a direct quote from the creators of the LP maps on lightpollutionmap.info. This is from FAQ question 14. It's a bit contrarian but it does illustrate the point.
JT
Cheers,14. How do you convert VIIRS data to MPSAS (magnitudes per square arc second) or Bortle scale? What does W/cm2 * sr mean anyway?
W/cm2 * sr is a SI radiometry unit for radiance. Radiance is radiant flux emitted, reflected, transmitted, or received by a surface, per unit solid angle per unit projected area. It sounds complicated, right? Well, that's because it is. Things get a bit more (actually a lot more) complicated if you want to do a simple conversion to MPSAS. I'm not even going to touch the Bortle scale issue because it is a highly subjective scale. Anyway if you are still interested in a "conversion" I can try to explain the problem. Imagine you have a small light source aimed at the sky and this light source gets picked up by the VIIRS detector. The VIIRS detector is monochromatic and has its own spectral response curve. It has no idea of the spectral curve of the light source. MPSAS or more specific magnitude is a measure that is measured in a “specific wavelength or passband”. See the problem? That's one major issue. The other major issue is that light from the light source passes through the atmosphere and while doing this it scatters due to air molecules and aerosols. So you need to create a model of light propagation for the entire Earth taking into account local air conditions, earth curvature, light absorption, Earth terrain, and whatnot. You can read more about it here. If you got the skills to do this and willing to share the result I'll be glad to include it! If not be sure to check the World Atlas (WA 2015) overlay.
JT
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
Not talking about maps. just the amount of stars I see corrospond to like a bortle 8 or 9 at least
even seeing the 2 stars by the star called mirach leading to andromeda is nearly impossible unless your somehow able to achieve full dark adaptation. and block the glare from every streetlights in the nearby vicinity.
you cant even see andromeda naked eye at all. its much too faint.
even seeing the 2 stars by the star called mirach leading to andromeda is nearly impossible unless your somehow able to achieve full dark adaptation. and block the glare from every streetlights in the nearby vicinity.
you cant even see andromeda naked eye at all. its much too faint.
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
That is indeed rough, and I am sorry that you are having to labor under such conditions. I live in a typicallyrealflow100 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:20 am Not talking about maps. just the amount of stars I see corrospond to like a bortle 8 or 9 at least
even seeing the 2 stars by the star called mirach leading to andromeda is nearly impossible unless your somehow able to achieve full dark adaptation. and block the glare from every streetlights in the nearby vicinity.
you cant even see andromeda naked eye at all. its much too faint.
Alan
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"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
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“Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
“Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
No chance of seeing andromeda naked eye at all
even with binoculars or telescope its very faint and hard to detect even with averted vision. its just a small faint fuzzy looking kinda star or dot. only the very central core is visible
even with binoculars or telescope its very faint and hard to detect even with averted vision. its just a small faint fuzzy looking kinda star or dot. only the very central core is visible
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
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Re: worst light pollution ever?
If you're ever in Las Vegas... Stop by some evening. Together, we'll practice counting the thirteen visible stars. Of course, we can then drive 100+ miles into the desert for the darkest skies one can ever imagine.
Clear Skies & Stay Safe
Clear Skies & Stay Safe
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