Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

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Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#1

Post by Hartsville SkyGazer »


Just reading this morning that a fight has started. Astronomers are very upset with Elon Musk's new satellites. Astrophotography and research may suffer greatly due to amount of satellites he plans to put into orbit with his Starlink initiative. These are very bright objects in the night sky, the drumbeats of war are just starting to sound. The program may launch a maximum of 2400 units at its peak. What say you?
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#2

Post by KingClinton »


I also noted the war of words that has erupted over the issue.

According to Musk, once correctly deployed they will be invisible just like the hundreds of other satellites already up there. He seems to think you will only spot them at dusk/dawn. He also made a huge blunder and announced we only see the ISS because it is huge and has lights.
Thats all fine if you have no interest in looking up.

But if you do look or even image then the skies are going to get crowded.
What can we do though? Not like SpaceX is going to bring them back down, we cannot stop it and even if he fails the next company will step up to the plate.
Facebook and few others have also demonstrated the desire to beam the internet from space, so far Musk is putting his money where his mouth is.

With the new space race well under way our skies are going to get a lot busier.

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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#3

Post by JayTee »


Not 2400 units, try 12,000!!! https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex- ... rks-2019-5

Anybody feel like imaging satellites since that may be all we'll see.

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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#4

Post by helicon »


Could be a significant problem for both imagers and visual folks. Rarely is there a night when I do not see a satellite or piece of space junk crossing the field of view - I usually see several during the course of one evening.
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#5

Post by goldstar »


It's Grand Central for satellites up there!
I set up for AP at 10 pm. Initially I took a quick peek with binoculars and IMMEDIATELY saw two sats in the field. Both bright with medium speeds.
Later around 1 am as the clouds cleared to the north at an elevation of about 30 degrees a train of three satellites bright enough to attract my attention about mag 1.5 passed across. They were equally spaced about 5 degrees apart moving W to E.
Later ANOTHER or perhaps the same train followed the same trajectory, this time five sats. four spaced as before and a leader out front.
Looked like a party of school kids out with teacher on a rope!
Still later nearer sunrise there were many slow bright flashers going by. I have never seen so many in one short night.
The sat strings were obviously Starlinks and as for the rest there were too many to note to find out from Stellarium what they were.Life is too short!
This is only the beginning :x
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#6

Post by Gfamily »


We saw a stream of Starlink network satellites passing Lyra last night, just after midnight.
So much for Musk's self serving claim that they'll only be visible just after sunset.
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#7

Post by SkyHiker »


Musk is probably correct, after the Krypton thrusters stop firing once they are at 550 km you won't see them anymore because of their low orbit, they will be in earth's shadow. Their reflection will be visible up to about 2 hours after sunset up to 40 degrees, 2.5 hours up to 20 degrees. That said, I still don't want them there though, there are other ways of getting internet. And why can't they get them in their final orbit right away without using those thrusters for a long time?
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#8

Post by UlteriorModem »


I sure hope you are right Henk.
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#9

Post by Gfamily »


SkyHiker wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 2:59 pm Musk is probably correct, after the Krypton thrusters stop firing once they are at 550 km you won't see them anymore because of their low orbit, they will be in earth's shadow.
Musk also stated that we can only see the ISS 'because it has lights on'.

He's renowned for making factually incorrect statements in his tweets, and I think this is one of them.

It's hard to tell whether he's simply being ignorant or if he's deliberately trying to spread a falsehood.

I wouldn't put it past him.

Oh, and the ISS will be visible tonight more than 3 1/2 hours after sunset.
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#10

Post by Hartsville SkyGazer »


Just waiting for the Eat at Taco Bell advert and Unreal Tournament advert to be shining high in the sky. Times they are changing quite rapidly. We saw some success in recent years in NE with LP in my local area, never thought we would have to worry about thousands of satellites ruining the Skies. We saw a few cities switch to ground focused LED lamps only, dramatic improvement to skyglow in those cities.

I would prefer they turn on access to fiber optic 10 ft from my house, over a satellite which has delay any day of week. I live in rural area no wired internet access in Massachusetts of all places. We do have fiber line but locals fight bringing internet to my town.
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#11

Post by Gfamily »


Hartsville SkyGazer wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 5:39 pmWe do have fiber line but locals fight bringing internet to my town.
Why would people resist bringing the internet to your town?
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#12

Post by quincy »


Gfamily wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 5:48 pm
Hartsville SkyGazer wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 5:39 pmWe do have fiber line but locals fight bringing internet to my town.
Why would people resist bringing the internet to your town?
There are many out there who don't care for the internet.
I never touched a computer until I was 39. And I will never buy most tech toys- such as a smartphone or those Alexa jobbers.
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#13

Post by Gfamily »


quincy wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 8:24 pm
Gfamily wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 5:48 pm
Hartsville SkyGazer wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 5:39 pmWe do have fiber line but locals fight bringing internet to my town.
Why would people resist bringing the internet to your town?
There are many out there who don't care for the internet.
I never touched a computer until I was 39. And I will never buy most tech toys- such as a smartphone or those Alexa jobbers.
I guess some people live in a very strange and scary place.
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#14

Post by quincy »


Gfamily wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 9:18 pm
quincy wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 8:24 pm
Gfamily wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 5:48 pm

Why would people resist bringing the internet to your town?
There are many out there who don't care for the internet.
I never touched a computer until I was 39. And I will never buy most tech toys- such as a smartphone or those Alexa jobbers.
I guess some people live in a very strange and scary place.
I know several people who live off the grid, by choice.
Scary? No
Strange? No.
Jim


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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#15

Post by Thefatkitty »


Interesting. I heard about the launch of these, and was wondering about the brightness of these things. Last night was fairly clear, so I took out my old orange C80 for a quick peek just after 9PM. Arcturus was up in the South-East, so I was looking in and around the area. I had my KK 25mm in the scope, and through the little Ortho FOV I was amazed to see five or six really bright spheres shoot by! They went by so fast I'm not sure of the exact number, but those bright ones were trailed about a second later by a sixth or seventh sphere, just not as bright. Looking away from the scope to their position in the sky, I saw a couple of them until they appeared to vanish about a second later.

I've seen the ISS go by a few times while looking through a scope, and it's not as bright as these things were. I believe that meteors, when they break and burn up in the upper atmosphere do not emit a perfectly white light that is the same brilliance in all pieces :lol: I think I may have seen Elon's new sats fly by, but I can't say for sure. Something else, maybe?

Still, if they were his newest achievement, I can't imagine 2400 of them up there!!

The times; they are a-changin'....

All the best,
Mark

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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#16

Post by Hartsville SkyGazer »


Gfamily wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 5:48 pm
Hartsville SkyGazer wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 5:39 pmWe do have fiber line but locals fight bringing internet to my town.
Why would people resist bringing the internet to your town?
We are very rural area and much of land bought as weekend homes for NYC folks and family. Initial cost on taxes is big deal and many just dont want it when they can do satellite or do without take a break from fast life of the city. We have some of best tax rates in area and prefer to keep rural feel. I am for internet but also for low tax rates and keeping rural feel.

We have something like 500 miles of roads very small population so initial costs to install are quite high and not attractive to internet providers.
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#17

Post by Ozypic »


It just goes to prove that we the people really dont have any say.
Lets start a list of what we dont want .
It would be a different world if I run it ....
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#18

Post by notFritzArgelander »


The visual and AP aspects are small compared to the microwave interference problems. A full constellation could mean that microwave astronomy installations like ALMA, the Event Horizon Telescope, etc. will be out of business.

https://www.sciencealert.com/elon-musk- ... Zi-eWbTPcQ

So microwave astronomy will have to relocate to the far side of the Moon or quit. :evil:
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#19

Post by Gfamily »


Hartsville SkyGazer wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 11:20 pm
Gfamily wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 5:48 pm
Hartsville SkyGazer wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 5:39 pmWe do have fiber line but locals fight bringing internet to my town.
Why would people resist bringing the internet to your town?
We are very rural area and much of land bought as weekend homes for NYC folks and family. Initial cost on taxes is big deal and many just dont want it when they can do satellite or do without take a break from fast life of the city. We have some of best tax rates in area and prefer to keep rural feel. I am for internet but also for low tax rates and keeping rural feel.

We have something like 500 miles of roads very small population so inititial costs to install are quite high and not attractive to internet providers.
I can see that if the up front cost falls on the community it would discourage uptake.
Here in UK, the national government had made the telecoms providers commit to providing a service to more isolated communities. They give some financial support to the companies, though it has to be said that it's not going particularly quickly.
The logistics are on a different scale of course, but the approach is based on the approach that isolated rural areas need scope for well paid information based jobs that would rely on good communications.
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Re: Starlink in the news, astronomers not happy with Mr. Musk

#20

Post by Burris »


quincy wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 9:59 pm
Gfamily wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 9:18 pm
quincy wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 8:24 pm

There are many out there who don't care for the internet.
I never touched a computer until I was 39. And I will never buy most tech toys- such as a smartphone or those Alexa jobbers.
I guess some people live in a very strange and scary place.
I know several people who live off the grid, by choice.
Scary? No
Strange? No.
I agree with you Jim. Lots of folks prefer to live off the grid, and I am one of them. That is why I still have an old flip phone! Lol! I don't want a "smart" phone that tracks my activity. My father and mother in-law were very proud of their new Alexa system in their house, that is until they found out that it was listening in on their daily conversations. Technology can be and is being abused. People used to say that George Orwells "1984" was mere paranoia. Yet, how many times have people been surfing the internet and their computer "second guessed" them? VERY FEW companies (and most political figures for that matter) Have YOUR best interest at heart. Every aspect of our lives are being monitored. That's not paranoia, that's a fact. If a person is comfortable with that I am happy for them and respect their opinion, but they really shouldn't belittle those of us who are not. Just MY opinion. Bill
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