NGC 7479 -- How Faint Should We Go!

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JayTee United States of America
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NGC 7479 -- How Faint Should We Go!

#1

Post by JayTee »


Hi All,

Last week I was fortunate enough to spend the week in Teton Village Wyoming with my new Explore Scientific AR102S frac on a Celestron SLT goto mount. On Monday and Tuesday night of last week I went up into Teton National Park, found a spot to set up my scope, and set after finding and viewing NGC 7479.

On both of these moonless nights, my SQM-L reading average was 21.63, and my NELM was 6.2, so needless to say this was a very dark sky. Both nights I spent 30 minutes refining its location and observing the known area where NGC7479 was located. After several minutes at the eyepiece, I convinced myself I could just barely see a faint wisp of an object. I consider myself an experienced observer so when I say this was a difficult object to find, and observe in this size scope, trust me, it is.

Using a 102 mm scope is about average for the membership that will be responding to these challenges. But very few members will be at a site that is so dark. Not to mention that this 11.6 mag object is very close to the theoretical limit (12.5) for this aperture. So, in the future I think it would be wise if we restrict our challenge requests to objects that are brighter than magnitude 9.5 to 10.0 and taking surface brightness into account. These challenges should be fun, not frustrating especially for the newbies.

Clinton, if you would like to discuss this offline please PM me.

An observing report for the trip and a product review of this new scope are forthcoming.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
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Don Quixote
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Re: NGC 7479 -- How Faint Should We Go!

#2

Post by Don Quixote »


I apologize for being one of the folks who recommended this target. It is indeed a difficult object in this range of aperture.

For folks who may not know what to look for it would be near impossible.

I was able to ID this object because I hopped to and verified the location with charts compared to the field in view. And I knew that I was looking for something very illusive with the aperture I was using, 25X100 binoculars.

See my report posted under the main challange heading.

Maybe the challenge could include two targets based on aperture needed to acquire visually.

For instance a target for 80 to 100 and one for apertures from 100mm to 203mm.

In this way we may, if we choose, push ourselves and our equipment.

Personally I enjoyed the challenge. And as a relative newcomer it was a very satisfying thing to me to have achieved this very difficult challange.

It was indeed a huge challenge for me using the 100mm binoculars even though the binoculars at 100mm with two eyes gives a significant advantage over my 100 f/9 refractor with only one eye.

I agree with your sentiment JT and my suggestion is to choose two objects geared to the full gambit of apertures available to our membership.

Well done by the way on your success in this challange.

You done good! 😊

P.S.
It may also be useful to consider targets separately for the Northern hemisphere and the Southern hemisphere.
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Re: NGC 7479 -- How Faint Should We Go!

#3

Post by Graeme1858 »


Don Quixote wrote: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:34 pm P.S.
It may also be useful to consider targets separately for the Northern hemisphere and the Southern hemisphere.

That would certainly help to identify targets a little higher in altitude and away from the worst of the light pollution.

Regards

Graeme
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Re: NGC 7479 -- How Faint Should We Go!

#4

Post by Don Quixote »


Graeme1858 wrote: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:55 pm
Don Quixote wrote: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:34 pm P.S.
It may also be useful to consider targets separately for the Northern hemisphere and the Southern hemisphere.

That would certainly help to identify targets a little higher in altitude and away from the worst of the light pollution.

Regards

Graeme
This is what I had in mind. Both hemispheres could look for a target in the better viewing zone.

I do not believe this challenge was intended as a contest. It is intended to stimulate interest and provoke activity where activity is possible.

My intention on participating is to have fun and attempt to expand my repertoire and skills.
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Re: NGC 7479 -- How Faint Should We Go!

#5

Post by JayTee »


Hi Mark,

I hear and appreciate your suggestion and I agree that would be a good addition to this program. For now, though, I would like to get the program off the ground with a safe, sane, and repeatable way to choose the challenge object (part of our forum growing pains/spasms?). Once we have that established, then I think it would be a good idea to expand to easy and difficult and even add northern and southern targets.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: NGC 7479 -- How Faint Should We Go!

#6

Post by Don Quixote »


JayTee wrote: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:31 pm Hi Mark,

I hear and appreciate your suggestion and I agree that would be a good addition to this program. For now, though, I would like to get the program off the ground with a safe, sane, and repeatable way to choose the challenge object (part of our forum growing pains/spasms?). Once we have that established, then I think it would be a good idea to expand to easy and difficult and even add northern and southern targets.

Cheers,
JT
I agree completely with the objective.

And it may well be that the forum is predominantly northern hemisphere folks.

For this last target selection, after the fact, I wondered how available it was to the Southern hemisphere folks.

My bad on that.

But still, in all, making this something everyone from beginners to old hands can take part in is the objective. That being said it would facilitate that end if targets were above a certain declination otherwise even a 100mm scope will be frustrated. Any object below 20* from the horizon is looking through several+ atmospheres which is going to bring on a lot of extinctions depending your sky quality.

Sooo..I would recommend the consideration of that aspect in the choice of challange targets as well as the visual magnitude that you correctly point out.

If we stay above 20* at meridian, and even that is pretty much down on the weeds, we may need to incorporate not so much a complication to the mix, but rather a more aggressive inclusion by considering a north and south challenge target in the definition of our objective. And maybe have you and Clinton do the selection with this foreknowledge of intent rather than an open suggestion box method. This would insure the objective is met consistantly.

I am glad you posted this for consideration. It is something I have also been considering.

The other aspect of the challenge that is a bit confusing is, were are we supposed to post our observation? That one is easy to sort out.
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Re: NGC 7479 -- How Faint Should We Go!

#7

Post by KingClinton »


If you read through my "target suggestions" topics you will notice I ask that the targets be visible from both hemispheres with smaller scopes under moderately light polluted skies.

Since the targets are chosen by our members I have gone with the flow and included the dimmer targets that were suggested. In some instances they were nominated by several members and seemed a popular choice.

I like the magnitude limit idea(10th or less)'
From my backyard with my 8" anything more than 8th magnitude is beyond reach, GC, nebula etc.

Thanks for the suggestions and discussion around this issue, this helps us as administrators to iron out the wrinkles and helps keep our forum the best it can be for all those who participate in it.
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Re: NGC 7479 -- How Faint Should We Go!

#8

Post by yobbo89 »


I can only really do narrowband targets unfortunately, 5- 10 hours on a faint galaxy's in lp just to get a noisey structure is not worth the time, I usually will skip alot of the challenges. Good luck seeing them faint fuzzys in the eyepiece , gave that up long ago.
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Re: NGC 7479 -- How Faint Should We Go!

#9

Post by Graeme1858 »


Would it be worth considering a Monthly Challenge of a subject or a type of celestial target rather than a specific object?

Just my 2p!

Regards

Graeme
______________________________________________
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Re: NGC 7479 -- How Faint Should We Go!

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Post by sdbodin »


KingClinton wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:36 am If you read through my "target suggestions" topics you will notice I ask that the targets be visible from both hemispheres with smaller scopes under moderately light polluted skies.

This two hemisphere is the hard part, needs to be between +30 and -30 Dec, a lot of the sky is not available. And I would really like to have the object transit before local midnight, later than that really ruins my 9am tee times.

But it is the Monthly "Challenge" not the Monthly "Simple".

Just two cents,
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Re: NGC 7479 -- How Faint Should We Go!

#11

Post by Don Quixote »


KingClinton wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:36 am If you read through my "target suggestions" topics you will notice I ask that the targets be visible from both hemispheres with smaller scopes under moderately light polluted skies.

Since the targets are chosen by our members I have gone with the flow and included the dimmer targets that were suggested. In some instances they were nominated by several members and seemed a popular choice.

I like the magnitude limit idea(10th or less)'
From my backyard with my 8" anything more than 8th magnitude is beyond reach, GC, nebula etc.

Thanks for the suggestions and discussion around this issue, this helps us as administrators to iron out the wrinkles and helps keep our forum the best it can be for all those who participate in it.
I want to apologize again here Clinton.
I knew of these suggestions and in my excitement about going after a tough target I neglected to consider.
It was not exactly a selfish thing, but I see that I did not consider others properly. It is easy to get tunnel vision.

I am looking forward to the next challange

Thank you for your patience.
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Re: NGC 7479 -- How Faint Should We Go!

#12

Post by yobbo89 »


I was thinking if you pair two targets with similar magnitude brightness for the two different hemisphere at each monthly challenge,could be more ideal.

i'm not too sure on the details exactly of the monthly challenge itself , is it to produce the best results? , astronomy has a bit of a range with it, some of us do visual ,some sketch, some image, so assume we would have 3 classes ,ie one for each. too see who has the best visual report,sketch or image.

and then would we have another category for bortle zones ? (as well as the scope size mentioned already).

i've made this complicated !, i like the idea that we all focus on a target, it actually adds variety on top of what we usually view/sketch/image , given that i almost image the same targets every year.

since it could be hard for some astronomers to produce any nominal results due to scope aperture,sky condition,viewing location ect,this blows out any competition structure, i was thinking maybe a monthly challenge could be more like a hunt for a handful of targets, like 3-5 targets and more of a monthly participation challenge if that's not what it is already.

The old forum had digital awards, maybe we could implement as such again ?

your thoughts ?
scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"truss tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob,meade 12'' f10 lx200 sct
cameras : asi 1600mm-c/asi1600mm-c,asi120mc,prostar lp guidecam, nikkon d60, sony a7,asi 290 mm
mounts : eq6 pro/eq8/mesu 200 v2
filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, chroma 3nm ha,sii,oiii,nii,rgb,lowglow,uv/ir,Thousand Oaks Solar Filter,1.25'' #47 violet,pro planet 742 ir,pro planet 807 ir,pro planet 642 bp ir.
extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel,tele vue 2x barlow .

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