Beware of interrupting USB connection to APT

Discuss software associated with Astronomy!
Post Reply
User avatar
STEVE333 United States of America
Inter-Galactic Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 3466
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 5:01 pm
4
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Beware of interrupting USB connection to APT

#1

Post by STEVE333 »


A ran into this problem a couple of times: I accidentally bumped the USB cable coming from the ASI1600MM cooled camera to my laptop and it wiggled the USB connector at the laptop causing a momentary disconnection (I heard the disconnect/connect sound from the laptop). That brief interruption caused APT to lose control of the camera. I couldn't take any more images, and, worse yet, I couldn't initiate the APT Warming Aid! I had to disconnect the camera (APT Disconnect button) and then Connect the camera to regain control. The problem is that the camera starts warming up rapidly without any control and thermal shock to the sensor is a real possibility. I quickly initiated the APT Cooling Aid, and, one time I was able to stop the warming just before it reached 0 deg C (I run at -15 deg C). The other time it warmed up rapidly well above 0 deg C.

I checked with Ivo and he said these isn't anything he can do about it because the camera resets all the settings when it is connected.

I'm going to secure the USB cable at the laptop end to prevent this from ever happening again.

Just wanted to mention this so nobody else has to find out about this the hard way.

Cheers,
Steve
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
Software: PHD2; APT; PixInsight ***** My AP website: www.steveking.pictures
Image
Image
User avatar
Graeme1858 Great Britain
Co-Administrator
Co-Administrator
Articles: 1
Offline
Posts: 7217
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:16 pm
4
Location: North Kent, UK
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

I Broke The Forum.

Re: Beware of interrupting USB connection to APT

#2

Post by Graeme1858 »


Thanks Steve

I've lost camera connection whilst slewing the telescope in the past. My plan was to put some heat shrink tubing over the connection between the USB extension and the USB camera lead, maybe with a splint inside. But like lots of things, I haven't done it yet!

Regards

Graeme
______________________________________________
Celestron 9.25 f10 SCT, f6.3FR, CGX mount.
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC
ZWO EFW, ZWO OAG, ASI220MM Mini.
APM 11x70 ED APO Binoculars.

https://www.averywayobservatory.co.uk/
User avatar
UlteriorModem
Local Group Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 1:32 am
4
Location: Florida
Status:
Offline

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Beware of interrupting USB connection to APT

#3

Post by UlteriorModem »


Just to make you feel a little better SGP has problems with disconnects, sometimes requiring a reboot!

Had a power connection go bad on an ASI383L while un-attended.

This was the results... Look carefully at the upper right of the protective glass, it cracked!

ImageCraked ASI by Tom Whit, on Flickr

This is the reason I use a deep cycle battery to avoid power interruptions of any kind (except with the connector goes bad) :D
Tom

Current Equipment:
Mount: Celestron CGX-L
Scope: 130mm f7 APO
Cam: ASI071mc-pro
User avatar
STEVE333 United States of America
Inter-Galactic Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 3466
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 5:01 pm
4
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Beware of interrupting USB connection to APT

#4

Post by STEVE333 »


Hi Graeme - That sounds like a good idea.

Fortunately my CEM40 mount has a USB connector on the end of the dovetail slide. I plug the camera USB into that connector, so, there is no force on the connection and no chance of disconnecting the USB. The dovetail USB is internally wired to a USB connector on the back of the RA assembly which only rotates and doesn't "swing from side to side", so, very little chance of a disconnection occurring there. The weak link in my USB "chain" is where the USB connects into the laptop in the house. The picture below shows the ethernet cable (that comes in from the mount, through a window) and it connects to the small box shown in the picture - just above the mouse. The other side of the box has the short cable with a USB connector and that is what is plugged into the laptop. If I "nudge" the cable going into the laptop it will sometimes momentarily disconnect, and, then I have the problem.

Image100_1129 by STEPHEN KING, on Flickr

I plan on clamping the USB cable to the power cord connector with a bag-clip. Seems to work well to stabilize the connection as well as route the cable "out of the way".

Hope your idea works out for you.

Cheers,
Steve
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
Software: PHD2; APT; PixInsight ***** My AP website: www.steveking.pictures
Image
Image
User avatar
UlteriorModem
Local Group Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 1:32 am
4
Location: Florida
Status:
Offline

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Beware of interrupting USB connection to APT

#5

Post by UlteriorModem »


I use a USB hub out at the mount, I have a laptop out at the mount that the hub plugs into. I then run a CAT5E network cable (about 100 feet) into a router in the shed and control the laptop out at the mount remotely via team viewer.

Everyone seems to have their own ways of doing things but that is what works best for me.
Tom

Current Equipment:
Mount: Celestron CGX-L
Scope: 130mm f7 APO
Cam: ASI071mc-pro
User avatar
Juno16 United States of America
Universal Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 8195
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 3:13 pm
4
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Beware of interrupting USB connection to APT

#6

Post by Juno16 »


Interesting Steve. I have had a few “communication “ issues too. The first time was after a failed meridian flip. When a flip “fails” for whatever reason, APT shuts down the mount tracking. Even powering down the mount and re aligning still would not re-establish tracking (or at least APT couldn't see it.
I just restart the laptop and PHD/APT/TeamViewer. Yeah, kind of a pain, but only takes a few minutes and all is well after that.

Just sharing my experiences.
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
Dog and best bud: Jack
Sky: Bortle 6-7
My Astrobin: https://www.astrobin.com/users/Juno16/
User avatar
Graeme1858 Great Britain
Co-Administrator
Co-Administrator
Articles: 1
Offline
Posts: 7217
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:16 pm
4
Location: North Kent, UK
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

I Broke The Forum.

Re: Beware of interrupting USB connection to APT

#7

Post by Graeme1858 »


STEVE333 wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:14 pm The weak link in my USB "chain" is where the USB connects into the laptop in the house.

If the ethernet cable is long enough, would there be any value in swapping the mouse wireless thing and the ethernet/usb converter around so the cable is on the other side away from getting knocked by mouse movements?

Regards

Graeme
______________________________________________
Celestron 9.25 f10 SCT, f6.3FR, CGX mount.
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC
ZWO EFW, ZWO OAG, ASI220MM Mini.
APM 11x70 ED APO Binoculars.

https://www.averywayobservatory.co.uk/
User avatar
bobharmony
Local Group Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 2028
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 1:11 pm
4
Location: Connecticut, US
Status:
Offline

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Beware of interrupting USB connection to APT

#8

Post by bobharmony »


Graeme1858 wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:18 pm
STEVE333 wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:14 pm The weak link in my USB "chain" is where the USB connects into the laptop in the house.

If the ethernet cable is long enough, would there be any value in swapping the mouse wireless thing and the ethernet/usb converter around so the cable is on the other side away from getting knocked by mouse movements?

Regards

Graeme
What Graeme does works for me too. The USB cable connects in on the left side of the laptop and the mouse dongle is plugged in on the right side. In all the years I have been doing this, I have not had a physical interruption of the USB cable at the laptop (knocks wood).

In general I am not a fan of any of these "press fit" connections, with USB and HDMI being my least favorite. Give me an Ethernet connection with a locking clip any day!

Bob
Hardware: Celestron C6-N w/ Advanced GTmount, Baader MK iii CC, Orion ST-80, Canon 60D (unmodded), Nikon D5300 (modded), Orion SSAG
Software: BYE, APT, PHD2, DSS, PhotoShop CC 2020, StarTools, Cartes du Ciel, AstroTortilla

Image
User avatar
STEVE333 United States of America
Inter-Galactic Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 3466
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 5:01 pm
4
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Beware of interrupting USB connection to APT

#9

Post by STEVE333 »


bobharmony wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:29 am
Graeme1858 wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:18 pm
STEVE333 wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:14 pm The weak link in my USB "chain" is where the USB connects into the laptop in the house.
If the ethernet cable is long enough, would there be any value in swapping the mouse wireless thing and the ethernet/usb converter around so the cable is on the other side away from getting knocked by mouse movements?

Regards
Graeme
What Graeme does works for me too. The USB cable connects in on the left side of the laptop and the mouse dongle is plugged in on the right side. In all the years I have been doing this, I have not had a physical interruption of the USB cable at the laptop (knocks wood).

In general I am not a fan of any of these "press fit" connections, with USB and HDMI being my least favorite. Give me an Ethernet connection with a locking clip any day!

Bob
I agree Bob. I hate the USB connection. What you and Graeme suggest is a possibility. It would require looping the ethernet around the back of the laptop and securing it, but, I will look into that possibility.

UlteriorModem wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:01 pm I use a USB hub out at the mount, I have a laptop out at the mount that the hub plugs into. I then run a CAT5E network cable (about 100 feet) into a router in the shed and control the laptop out at the mount remotely via team viewer.

Everyone seems to have their own ways of doing things but that is what works best for me.
I had a laptop out by the mount until somebody stole it. That is what started my saga into USB extension with ethernet. Glad yours setup is working well for you.

Juno16 wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:59 pm Interesting Steve. I have had a few “communication “ issues too. The first time was after a failed meridian flip. When a flip “fails” for whatever reason, APT shuts down the mount tracking. Even powering down the mount and re aligning still would not re-establish tracking (or at least APT couldn't see it.
I just restart the laptop and PHD/APT/TeamViewer. Yeah, kind of a pain, but only takes a few minutes and all is well after that.

Just sharing my experiences.
I hear you Juno - When I had the DSLR a dropout in the communications with the camera was just a bother. However, with the cooled camera a dropout can be a disaster because the camera warms up too fast and can damage something.

Thanks all for responding with your experiences. I do feel better knowing I'm not alone in this fight.

Cheers,
Steve
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
Software: PHD2; APT; PixInsight ***** My AP website: www.steveking.pictures
Image
Image
User avatar
John999R United States of America
Earth Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:08 pm
4
Location: California USA
Status:
Offline

Re: Beware of interrupting USB connection to APT

#10

Post by John999R »


I've had more than my share of issues with USB connections. If only the manufacturers would agree to standardize the input and output dimension specs because some ports are loose while others are snugger. Kind of like the same idea as ASCOM but in a mechanical sense. Even now when PHD2 suddenly crashed when I clicked on looping mode, one of the first things I did was inspect, replace (for tests) with spares, and clean the USB connectors. Come to find out after trying to connect my QHY5L II guide camera, nothing I did brought the camera back and that was after trying four different cables and three different PCs. I now believe the camera fried and the end result is PHD2 doesn't see it or the couple times PHD2 apparently made a connection, the program crashed as soon as I clicked the looping button. I wish I had a spare guide camera around just to see if the problem is the camera or something else to look at.

Since I'm portable, where I have had issues is during polar alignment using the Polemaster. In order to see the screen and at the same time adjust the alt/azi bolts, I have to rotate the laptop around so I can catch how my adjustments are going and a few times the movement caused a disconnection. I looked into laptops that had rotatable screens and found the very nice Tough Books and another brand, but I couldn't see spending that type of money over this issue. Instead, I moved some of my equipment around, arranged the USB cables like what was already discussed in this thread, the wireless mouse dongle is always a problem and I don't like the fact it takes up a precious USB port. Now I'm considering one of those power modules with their multitude of inputs and outputs, mounting it on the OTA or near it so I can reel in some of the dangling cables and manage them better.
User avatar
JayTee United States of America
Universal Ambassador
Articles: 2
Offline
Posts: 5619
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:23 am
4
Location: Idaho, USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Beware of interrupting USB connection to APT

#11

Post by JayTee »


This issue, it's probably my number one bugaboo. It is one of a very few issues that causes me to turn my head skyward and scream out a few very salty expletives.

Potentially frustrated,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

Image
User avatar
UlteriorModem
Local Group Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 1:32 am
4
Location: Florida
Status:
Offline

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Beware of interrupting USB connection to APT

#12

Post by UlteriorModem »


What brings that out in me is when you get everything attached and running. Get ready to start the sequence. Cool the camera. And oopsie something hangs up and you have no choice but to re-boot. Just dropping the cooling off 100% :(

Fortunately I have most of those kinds of issues sorted out. One thing that was a bear to chase down was a shakey power plug to the imaging camera. It would only drop power when the scope slewed into a particular position. Finally figured that out... sheese.
Tom

Current Equipment:
Mount: Celestron CGX-L
Scope: 130mm f7 APO
Cam: ASI071mc-pro
Post Reply

Create an account or sign in to join the discussion

You need to be a member in order to post a reply

Create an account

Not a member? register to join our community
Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics
It’s free and only takes a minute

Register

Sign in

Return to “Astronomy Software”