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I have an orion skyscanner 100mm F4 reflector telescope
Orion nebula just looks like a faint fuzzy smudge with a barely-detectable darker area sorta towards the middle.
it looks vaguely similar to this. but the stars are much sharper. and the nebula is is not as bright or obvious to make out. it looks slightly brighter with averted vision. but I dont see much more detail compared to direct vision.
at the time orion was much higher in the sky as well.
I'm in roughly bortle 5-ish but have minimal access to any dark areas. so almost no dark adaptation. so I can't even see it naked eye. theres just nothing there but a few faint stars around where the nebula is located.
I dont see any more or less with higher or lower magnification. this is what I see at roughly 40x to 63x.
Is this all I should expect? or is my case especially bad?
Should I be seeing more or less in terms of nebula?
Attachments
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
That is about normal for an eyepiece view. With more magnification, you should be able to resolve the four main Trapezium stars. Darker skies will let you see more.
DSO AP:Orion 200mm f/4 Newtonian Astrograph; ATIK 383L+; EFW2 filter wheel; Astrodon Ha,Oiii,LRGB filters; KWIQ/QHY5 guide scope; Planetary AP:Celestron C-11; ZWO ASI120MC; Portable: Celestron C-8 on HEQ5 pro; C-90 on wedge; 20x80 binos; Etc: Canon 350D; Various EPs, etc. Obs: 8' Exploradome; iOptron CEM60 (pier); Helena Observatory (H2O)Astrobin
I can get up to 200x but I think 100x is more reasonable.
I dont really see anymore detail though except for fainter stars.
but its really hard to focus at high magnifications.
I'm waiting on some new eyepieces that are hopefully better quality than the ones that came with my scope.
gives me a better range of magnification too.
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
Looks about right, but you will see more as you train your eyes, and brain, to see that which is just above sky background brightness. However, there is a huge difference between the suburbs and a really dark sky. The first view from a place like Bryce Canyon NP will blow your socks off!
Good hunting,
Steve
Scopes; Meade 16 LX200, AT80LE, plus bunch just sitting around gathering dust
Cameras; Atik 460ex mono, Zwo ASI1600MC-cool, QHY5L-II color and mono
I use an old Lumicon nebular filter which helps a lot in my LP soup.
============================================================================= I drink tea, I read books, I look at stars when I'm not cursing clouds. It's what I do. =============================================================================
AT50, AT72EDII, ST80, ST102; Scopetech Zero, AZ-GTi, AZ Pronto; Innorel RT90C, Oberwerk 5000; Orion Giantview 15x70s, Vortex 8x42s, Navy surplus 7x50s, Nikon 10x50s
I have an svbony UHC filter (similar to optolong filter. almost identical)
but I just cant see details any easier with it compared to without it.
the stars get a bit fainter and kinda cyan colored.
and the sky background looks really dark
but orion looks the same
Maybe I need a specific filter for orion nebula?
I can clearly see the background sky color in my telescope is easily visible without the filter. and the background sky goes almost pitch black with the filter. so its definitely doing something
but the nebula doesnt look any worse or better. it looks the same
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
I live in about bortle 6 and i see something similar, more green colour and a larger wing edge ,but yes it is pretty close from your image. through my 10'' dob
scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"truss tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob,meade 12'' f10 lx200 sct
cameras : asi 1600mm-c/asi1600mm-c,asi120mc,prostar lp guidecam, nikkon d60, sony a7,asi 290 mm
mounts : eq6 pro/eq8/mesu 200 v2
filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, chroma 3nm ha,sii,oiii,nii,rgb,lowglow,uv/ir,Thousand Oaks Solar Filter,1.25'' #47 violet,pro planet 742 ir,pro planet 807 ir,pro planet 642 bp ir.
extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel,tele vue 2x barlow .
I hear from so many people they are seeing like twice as bright and twice as many details as me or more. with the same size telescope!
Are they in better skies or just have better dark adaptation or something?
I'm not sure if im doing something wrong.
but i'm not able to get anywhere to achieve dark adaptation. theres far too many streetlights glaring everywhere. like every 100 feet!
and i live in a densely populated apartment complex area.
I wish i lived in the middle of nowhere in a small house with a wide open field and no streetlights for at least a mile radius!
I'm sure i'd be able to see way more then right?
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
You can use the black cloak method. Get a dark towel and put it over your head while at the eyepiece.
Don't laugh! More than one of the people on this forum use one.
I'm in Bortle 7 skies, so I do almost strictly AP, with a 4" refractor, BTW.
Something to think about.
Good Luck!
I have tried that. but if I dont point my telescope at least 60 degrees AWAY from any streetlights. and at least 45 degrees or higher. there will be super annoying glare visible in the telescope from indirect light from streetlights.
and it doesnt help enough.
I can't stand there with a thing draped over me for an hour. it gets ABSOLUTELY SWELTERING HOT.
Also I would really like to get some kind of eye patch thing to cover my unused eye. so its much more comfortable and i'm not "squinting" through the eyepiece. causing more eyelash related problems.
Last edited by realflow100 on Sat May 02, 2020 3:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
Dark adaptation will greatly improve the views of this nebula. Throw a towel over your head to get better contrast, you should be able to see the "wings" of the nebula - gas tendrils, from a Bortle 5 sky. I have similar views with my 10" Dob from a Bortle 6-7 location at home.
Alternately, you can erect a "shade" from offending lights by using PVC pipe segments and a plastic tarp, should improve things for you while not getting too hot yourself.
-Michael Refractors: ES AR152 f/6.5 Achromat on Twilight II, Celestron 102mm XLT f/9.8 on Celestron Heavy Duty Alt Az mount, KOWA 90mm spotting scope Binoculars: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70, Bushnell 10x50 Eyepieces: Various, GSO Superview, 9mm Plossl, Celestron 25mm Plossl Camera: ZWO ASI 120 Naked Eye: Two Eyeballs Latitude: 48.7229° N
I cant really do anything lkike that.
I dont have a tarp or anything that would be suitable for setting that up.
And its super dangerous outside where i live bad neighborhood. gunshots every night almost. people fighting yelling arguing all the time.
everyone is itching for a fight here.
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
Maybe your best course is to head out of town to a darker site. If you don't have a campground or state park nearby, check with your local astronomy club(s). My club has 2 private sites within an hour's drive and also uses a public forest preserve that other clubs use. Plus it'll be a lot less stressful than worrying about catching a stray bullet while observing.
============================================================================= I drink tea, I read books, I look at stars when I'm not cursing clouds. It's what I do. =============================================================================
AT50, AT72EDII, ST80, ST102; Scopetech Zero, AZ-GTi, AZ Pronto; Innorel RT90C, Oberwerk 5000; Orion Giantview 15x70s, Vortex 8x42s, Navy surplus 7x50s, Nikon 10x50s
I have no car or way of traveling. i'm stuck here right now.
I dont have any way of carrying my stuff with me either.
i have to stay home all day to take care of my mother who has disabilities and health conditions
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
People have told you things that can mitigate the light glaring issues you have regarding your streetlights. A towel or hood can shield your eye and the eyepiece from light intrusion. That improves dark adaptation and contrast. Having a darker corner of the yard that can shield you from the streetlights, which you unfortunately do not seem to have. In such cases erecting some sort of temporary light shield can accomplish the same thing, but again unfortunately you do not seem to be able to do that either.
You mentioned an eye patch, which can help some of course. I would suggest that if you get one (can be had from most drug stores like CVS), then I would shift it back and forth between your observing and non-observing eye. When you are observing move it to your other eye as you said, but when you move your eye away from the eyepiece to do other things then move the eye patch to your observing eye to help maintain better dark adaptation in that eye specifically and use your non-observing eye to look around or at the sky as you need.
In terms of the filter you have, it is not a true nebula filter, but rather a very wide bandwidth light pollution filter. What that means is that it is passing a lot of light frequencies rather than restricting its passband (frequencies it passes) to those frequencies emitted by M42. The sky will darken a little, but the nebula's appearance will not change appreciably as you've found. Unfortunately filters that are designed as Light Pollution Reducution (LPR) filters are not significantly useful for visual use. Plus the more light pollution (or artificial sky glow) you have, the worst they perform for visual use. A true nebula filter that is designed to block the broader emissions of artificial light glow and pass those frequencies typically emitted by nebulae will perform noticeably better. They will also darken the sky much more than an LPR filter.
The absolute best way to mitigate the effects of all the general light pollution that causes the sky to appear bright is, as others have suggested, to get away from the local environment. It has been jokingly said that the best filter there is is the gas filter in your car that allows you to drive to darker skies. There is a great deal of truth to that tongue-in-cheek saying. But, unfortunately in your case that does not seem to be possible for you at the moment.
I hope you will look closely at your situation and try to employ some type of method to help block the stray light from hitting the front end of your scope and your eyes. Anything you do to keep that light intrusion to a minimum will prove very beneficial to you. I too live in about a Bortle 5 location and I see M42 to better advantage in a scope smaller than yours and even in 10x50 binoculars. But I am able to shield my observing position from both streetlights and my neighbor's lights. But as has been mentioned, the best solution is to get away from it all whenever possible.
Good luck to you and stay safe. It is a bad deal when one must live in a location that they do not feel safe in, as it significantly takes away from the fun of communing with the night sky when you have to worry about stray bullets or intruders.
Alan
Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
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"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
“Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
Andromeda galaxy is not visible naked eye with or without averted vision. same with orion nebula.
Pleiades is just barely visible as a fuzzy cluster of faint stars. hard to make out distinct stars in it. i can just BARELY make out 5 stars in it. but its really hard and i need to glance back and forth to it a bunch of times.
with my telescope pleiades looks great and plenty of obvious stars. but no nebula at all.
and with my telescope andromeda is barely visible as a small faint fuzzy dot at 13x or 20x magnification. not even a smudge. just a faint small fuzzy dot with a few faint stars around it. not even elliptical shaped.
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
Nope its too high. and very unsafe. there would still be streetlights glaring to me.
they are the worst kind of streetlights.
my apartment is 2 floors and i dont think anyone is allow up there except to get something down like a kids ball or something.
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
Your situation is very constrained. You can't get to darker skies, so you won't see those objects in their true glory. Hopefully, someday, you will have an opportunity to go somewhere where there is less overall light pollution, and certainly less glare.
For now, the only thing you can really do is take steps to block the local glare. Here are a couple of thoughts. Go to Walmart and buy a cheap beach umbrella. Portable, easy to use. Helps block glare. While at Walmart, buy a black eye patch at the pharmacy department. Finally, get a large black t-shirt. You can put this on upside-down and pull it over your head when observing.
Nobody enjoys having a shirt or hood on over their face and head. It's stuffy and hot. Nobody likes having to set up umbrellas, or for that matter, spending money on an umbrella instead of on a new piece of astro gear. Nobody really wants to fuss with an eye patch. What a pain.
I do all those things, and I wish I didn't have to. I wish the bright streetlights near my house were not there. I wish there were no mosquitoes. I wish it wasn't so hot at night sometimes or so freezing cold at other times. But it's dumb to spend time wishing away what isn't going to go away.
You seem very keen about astronomy, and there is a lot you can do to enjoy it even under your bad circumstances. Some of the things you may need to try are not ideal, but what the heck else can you do?
Andromeda galaxy is just as faint as orion nebula for me. not visible naked eye. and very faint with a telescope.
Appears as a small faint fuzzy dot or star in my telescope at the lowest magnification. 13x to 20x. Not elliptical in shape. just the very central core is visible. and barely.
There are only a few faint stars around it. and its hard to find because its so faint
its slightly brighter with averted vision but not by much.
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.