Remnants of extinct constellations.
- KingClinton
- Local Group Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 2258
- Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:45 pm
- 5
- Location: Durban, South Africa.
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Photo of the Day
Remnants of extinct constellations.
Nice article.
Trying to visualize Argo Narvis is a tough one for me, way to mamy stars in there!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 3656348681
Trying to visualize Argo Narvis is a tough one for me, way to mamy stars in there!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 3656348681
- Don Quixote
- Articles: 0
Re: Remnants of extinct constellations.
Thank you for posting Clinton.
I have enjoyed reading this.
I have a set of Hevelius plates of the constellations.
I have enjoyed reading this.
I have a set of Hevelius plates of the constellations.
- Don Quixote
- Articles: 0
- helicon
- Co-Administrator
- Articles: 592
- Posts: 12374
- Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 1:35 pm
- 4
- Location: Washington
- Status:
Online
-
TSS Awards Badges
Re: Remnants of extinct constellations.
Yes, it was quite a large constellation! I think Canopus was the brightest star in the constellation. Now it's part of Carina, once the constellation was subdivided.
-Michael
Refractors: ES AR152 f/6.5 Achromat on Twilight II, Celestron 102mm XLT f/9.8 on Celestron Heavy Duty Alt Az mount, KOWA 90mm spotting scope
Binoculars: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70, Bushnell 10x50
Eyepieces: Various, GSO Superview, 9mm Plossl, Celestron 25mm Plossl
Camera: ZWO ASI 120
Naked Eye: Two Eyeballs
Latitude: 48.7229° N
Refractors: ES AR152 f/6.5 Achromat on Twilight II, Celestron 102mm XLT f/9.8 on Celestron Heavy Duty Alt Az mount, KOWA 90mm spotting scope
Binoculars: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70, Bushnell 10x50
Eyepieces: Various, GSO Superview, 9mm Plossl, Celestron 25mm Plossl
Camera: ZWO ASI 120
Naked Eye: Two Eyeballs
Latitude: 48.7229° N
- bladekeeper
- Inter-Galactic Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 3603
- Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:39 am
- 5
- Location: Lowell, Arkansas, US
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
TSS Photo of the Day
Re: Remnants of extinct constellations.
I recall Alan [mention]kt4hx[/mention] observing some things in now-defunct constellations in his reports.
Bryan
Scopes: Apertura AD12 f/5; Celestron C6-R f/8; ES AR127 f/6.4; Stellarvue SV102T f/7; iOptron MC90 f/13.3; Orion ST80A f/5; ES ED80 f/6; Celestron Premium 80 f/11.4; Celestron C80 f/11.4; Unitron Model 142 f/16; Meade NG60 f/10
Mounts: Celestron AVX; Bresser EXOS-2; ES Twilight I; ES Twilight II; iOptron Cube-G; AZ3/wood tripod; Vixen Polaris
Binoculars: Pentax PCF WP II 10×50, Bresser Corvette 10×50, Bresser Hunter 16×50 and 8×40, Garrett Gemini 12×60 LW, Gordon 10×50, Apogee 20×100
Scopes: Apertura AD12 f/5; Celestron C6-R f/8; ES AR127 f/6.4; Stellarvue SV102T f/7; iOptron MC90 f/13.3; Orion ST80A f/5; ES ED80 f/6; Celestron Premium 80 f/11.4; Celestron C80 f/11.4; Unitron Model 142 f/16; Meade NG60 f/10
Mounts: Celestron AVX; Bresser EXOS-2; ES Twilight I; ES Twilight II; iOptron Cube-G; AZ3/wood tripod; Vixen Polaris
Binoculars: Pentax PCF WP II 10×50, Bresser Corvette 10×50, Bresser Hunter 16×50 and 8×40, Garrett Gemini 12×60 LW, Gordon 10×50, Apogee 20×100
- helicon
- Co-Administrator
- Articles: 592
- Posts: 12374
- Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 1:35 pm
- 4
- Location: Washington
- Status:
Online
-
TSS Awards Badges
Re: Remnants of extinct constellations.
In his Almagest, Claudius Ptolemy described Argo Navis as occupying the portion of the Milky Way between Canis Major and Centaurus, and identified stars comprising such details as the "little shield", the "steering-oar", the "mast-holder", and the "stern-ornament...
-Michael
Refractors: ES AR152 f/6.5 Achromat on Twilight II, Celestron 102mm XLT f/9.8 on Celestron Heavy Duty Alt Az mount, KOWA 90mm spotting scope
Binoculars: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70, Bushnell 10x50
Eyepieces: Various, GSO Superview, 9mm Plossl, Celestron 25mm Plossl
Camera: ZWO ASI 120
Naked Eye: Two Eyeballs
Latitude: 48.7229° N
Refractors: ES AR152 f/6.5 Achromat on Twilight II, Celestron 102mm XLT f/9.8 on Celestron Heavy Duty Alt Az mount, KOWA 90mm spotting scope
Binoculars: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70, Bushnell 10x50
Eyepieces: Various, GSO Superview, 9mm Plossl, Celestron 25mm Plossl
Camera: ZWO ASI 120
Naked Eye: Two Eyeballs
Latitude: 48.7229° N
- kt4hx
- Moderator
- Articles: 4
- Posts: 3514
- Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 12:18 am
- 4
- Location: Virginia, USA
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
Re: Remnants of extinct constellations.
You are correct Bryan and thanks for the reminder. I had to look that stuff up and found it was from 2017 when I was doing my "asphalt astronomy" gig with 10x50 binoculars from a trip then. Below is what I wrote then, from the other site. I hope you all will give them a look when they are front and center.bladekeeper wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:37 pm I recall Alan @kt4hx observing some things in now-defunct constellations in his reports.
18 October 2017
Musca Borealis (Aries, old constellation):
This was indeed a treat for me. While I am always hunting for new
33 Arietis at mag 5.3
35 Arietis at mag 4.7
39 Arietis at mag 4.5
41 Arietis at mag 3.6
These stars form a large, nearly equilateral triangle that points to the southeast. It lies nearly 8.5° ENE of mag 2.0 Alpha Arietis (Hamal) near the border with both Perseus and Triangulum. In the 10x50s it was a fine sight, large and bright with numerous dimmer stars strewn through the field. I found it a fun and curious object to observe, with a link to astronomical history. Plus as a bonus, I was looking right at my next object, which encompasses the stars forming this old constellation. For a chart of the field, look at the attached image in the section under Triangulum Minus.
http://www.ianridpath.com/startales/muscaborealis.htm
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/library/rare...on_plate13.jpg
19 October 2017
Triangulum Minus (Triangulum, old constellation):
In the last report I recorded my observation of the now defunct constellation Musca Borealis, or the northern fly, which floats above the back of Aries. What I didn’t realize at the time was that I actually skated right over a second old constellation only about 4° WNW of the fly. Triangulum Minus (not Minor) was introduced by Johannes Hevelius in his 1690 atlas Firmentum Sobiescianum along with Musca Borealis.
So tonight this was my first stop since Aries and Triangulum were near the zenith. I drew in the outline for both constellation on chart 38-right in my Interstellarum (IDSA). After reading about the smaller triangle, I realized that I had already observed it during the evening of 15 October when I targeted the
Taking a last look with the naked eye, I found I could easily see 12 Trianguli, with 10 and 6 Tri being a little more difficult. While I was there, I also checked the visibility of Musca Borealis with the naked eye since I was now familiar with its position. I found it very easy to discern, with enough angular size to resolve the pattern formed by the four stars. The combination of Musca Borealis and Triangulum Minus makes for a delightful view within a rich field that has some interesting astronomical history. I have included a chart depicting both constellations. Take a look; I think you will enjoy the view.
Harpa Georgium (Taurus and Eridanus, old constellation):
This obscure constellation was originally conceived by Maximilian Hell, who was the director of the Vienna Observatory in the mid-1700s. Psalterium Georgium or George’s Harp, was Hell’s attempt to honor King George III, the patron of William Herschel. In the Uranometria atlas (1801), Johann Bode changed the name to Harpa Georgium. In time this constellation was dissolved, with the majority laying in Eridanus with the northwestern corner being in southwestern Taurus. The field for this constellation is found on IDSA chart 62-left where I penciled in its outline.
I first oriented myself with the naked eye by finding the circlet
This of course takes longer to describe than to do. But what we wind up with is an odd appearing five-sided figure, supposedly representing a harp. Regardless, my attempts at naked eye observation were only partially successful. It was dipping down toward one of my myriad light domes, plus some haze from airborne dust was not helpful. I did pick up 10 Tauri and barely 35 Eridani. I did not confirm 25 or 30 Eridani, or the two HD stars at the southern end of the pattern. However, 17 Eri was seen easily. Why not take a look at the attached chart and see if you can pick up the harp.
Sceptrum Brandenburgicum (Eridanus, old constellation):
My final old and retired constellation for this outing is this creation of Gottfried Kirch, known as the Brandenburg Scepter. In 1688 he devised this constellation either in honor of Brandenburg Province in Prussia or in honor of the Royal Family of Brandenburg in Prussia. This seemingly political move on the part of Kirch worked in his favor as Friedrich III, the elector of Brandenburg, called him to Berlin and appointed him the first director of the Berlin Observatory in 1700.
In its original form it was a simplistic affair of a north-south line of four stars below Nu Eridanus. Later, when Johann Bode included it in his Uranometria atlas of 1801, he expanded it, more like the outline you will see in the attached chart. The celestial art in the atlas depicted a longer scepter with a scroll wrapped around its lower portion. The scroll bore the initial FW III, for Friedrich Wilhelm III, who had become King of Prussia in 1797.
This grouping is found on chart 73-right in the IDSA, where I penciled in its form, as depicted by Bode. I began the task of finding this lost constellation by finding mag 4.0 Mu Eridani and mag 3.9 Nu Eridani west of Orion. I then aimed the 10x50s at Nu Eri and dipped south and quickly located the top of the scepter, 46 Eri (mag 5.7), which forms a wide double. Continuing due south 1.5° I next came to another wide double 47 Eri (mag 5.1). The next stop was mag 5.2 HD 29065 44’ to the south. Now I angled slightly east of due south for almost 3.5° to find mag 5.0 HD 29573. Next I moved south for just over 2° to 35 Eri (Sceptrum - obviously related) at mag 3.9. At this point the constellation splits into two legs or a stand I suppose. Flowing southeast for 3.5° it ends at 58 Eri (mag 5.5). Back at 35 Eri, we continue SSE about 4.5° to mag 5.5 HD 30127, where we turn southwest for over 1° to end our constellation at 54 Eri (mag 4.3). As mentioned previously, it takes longer to explain the process than to actually do it with the binoculars given the wide field of view. It spans about 13° north to south from 46 Eri to 54 Eri.
I next tried to see what I could pick up naked eye. Granted it is somewhat towards my southern light dome, and again, I had airborne dust. But I could easily see 46, 47, 53 and 54 Eridani. With binoculars it was a pretty string of stars flowing from north to south, in a generally rich field. One note, in the below chart you will see there are green lines and black lines connecting stars. The green lines are those I added in for the old constellation. The black lines are from Sky Tools 3 to show the outline for Eridanus. So one can see they are somewhat intertwined. Give it a try sometime if your latitude and sky permits.
Alan
Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
“Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
“Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
Create an account or sign in to join the discussion
You need to be a member in order to post a reply
Create an account
Not a member? register to join our community
Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics
It’s free and only takes a minute