The search for Planet 9

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KingNothing13
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The search for Planet 9

#1

Post by KingNothing13 »

Phil Plait (The Bad Astronomer) has a new article about the search for Planet 9.

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/want-to-f ... easure-map

Would this be Planet 10 for those who still consider Pluto a planet? :lol:
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#2

Post by Lady Fraktor »

It would depend on the size I guess, nine planets and 4 minor planets as well.
Then there are the 17 billion exo-planets that the 2013 Keplar data says should be there....
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#3

Post by helicon »

It could be Nabiru... :lol:
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#4

Post by KingNothing13 »

helicon wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:45 pm It could be Nabiru... :lol:
Prepare for incoming pole shift...or whatever.
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#5

Post by notFritzArgelander »

I think that the "growing number" of folks who believe in this object stopped growing with Mike Brown and his friends. ;)
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#6

Post by Lady Fraktor »

Granted that Beelzebrown has done good work in the minor planet area in the past, I do have my doubts about this one.
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#7

Post by Bigzmey »

Planet 9 is Pluto. Case closed. :D
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102 ED F7; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD F10, 8" SCT F10, Omni XLT 150R Achro F5, Onyx 80ED F6.3; Meade: 80ST Achro F5.
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#8

Post by notFritzArgelander »

Bigzmey wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:03 pm Planet 9 is Pluto. Case closed. :D
I'm so glad someone else said it first. :)
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#9

Post by MistrBadgr »

notFritzArgelander wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:36 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:03 pm Planet 9 is Pluto. Case closed. :D
I'm so glad someone else said it first. :)
I am not going to argue with anyone about it, but Pluto is still a planet in my opinion.
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#10

Post by notFritzArgelander »

MistrBadgr wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:41 am
notFritzArgelander wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:36 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:03 pm Planet 9 is Pluto. Case closed. :D
I'm so glad someone else said it first. :)
I am not going to argue with anyone about it, but Pluto is still a planet in my opinion.
Just ask the New Horizons folks, like Alan Stern. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Stern
Stern has become particularly involved in the debate surrounding the 2006 definition of planet by the IAU. After the IAU's decision was made he was quoted as saying "It's an awful definition; it's sloppy science and it would never pass peer review" and claimed that Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Neptune have not fully cleared their orbital zones and has stated in his capacity as PI of the New Horizons project that "The New Horizons project [...] will not recognize the IAU's planet definition resolution of August 24, 2006."[43][44]

A 2000 paper by Stern and Levison proposed a system of planet classification that included both the concepts of hydrostatic equilibrium and clearing the neighbourhood used in the new definition,[45] with a proposed classification scheme labeling all sub-stellar objects in hydrostatic equilibrium as "planets" and subclassifying them into "überplanets" and "unterplanets" based on a mathematical analysis of the planet's ability to scatter other objects out of its orbit over a long period of time. Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune were classified as neighborhood-clearing "überplanets" and Pluto was classified as an "unterplanet". One could take this classification system as planet and dwarf planet respectively, with the major difference of the IAU definition classifying the two as distinct categories of celestial bodies instead of two subsets of planets.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#11

Post by Lady Fraktor »

notFritzArgelander wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:36 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:03 pm Planet 9 is Pluto. Case closed. :D
I'm so glad someone else said it first. :)
Second actually, I stated above there are 9 planets and 4 minors :lol:
Clyde Tombaugh deserves more credit!
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#12

Post by notFritzArgelander »

Lady Fraktor wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:56 am
notFritzArgelander wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:36 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:03 pm Planet 9 is Pluto. Case closed. :D
I'm so glad someone else said it first. :)
Second actually, I stated above there are 9 planets and 4 minors :lol:
Clyde Tombaugh deserves more credit!
Correct. I should have said "before me" rather than "first". I've grown tired of often being the first to chime in on that.

Tombaugh indeed deserves more credit since by any sane definition of planet Pluto is one. For my money so is Ceres.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#13

Post by Graeme1858 »

notFritzArgelander wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:59 am Tombaugh indeed deserves more credit since by any sane definition of planet Pluto is one. For my money so is Ceres.

And Eris and other TNOs and KBOs that don't behave like planets. :)

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Re: The search for Planet 9

#14

Post by notFritzArgelander »

Graeme1858 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:42 am
notFritzArgelander wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:59 am Tombaugh indeed deserves more credit since by any sane definition of planet Pluto is one. For my money so is Ceres.

And Eris and other TNOs and KBOs that don't behave like planets. :)

Regards

Graeme
As long as its shape is determined by hydrostatic equilibrium between gravity and pressure and it assumes a spheroidal form and NOTHING nuclear is going on, it's a planet, dad gum it! :flame: :lol:
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#15

Post by Graeme1858 »

notFritzArgelander wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:54 am As long as its shape is determined by hydrostatic equilibrium between gravity and pressure and it assumes a spheroidal form and NOTHING nuclear is going on, it's a planet, dad gum it! :flame: :lol:

And irrespective of eccentricity or obliquity?

With those criteria surely it's not planet 9 or 10 we're searching for but planet 700 and something?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... an_objects

Pluto is clearly different from the other 8 planets. We didn't know that when it was discovered but we do know now. Not much point hanging onto sentimental labels when we progress in science. We know Pluto is a fascinating thing of beauty, we've been there. But it's not a planet. M2p.

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Re: The search for Planet 9

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Post by notFritzArgelander »

Graeme1858 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:17 am
notFritzArgelander wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:54 am As long as its shape is determined by hydrostatic equilibrium between gravity and pressure and it assumes a spheroidal form and NOTHING nuclear is going on, it's a planet, dad gum it! :flame: :lol:

And irrespective of eccentricity or obliquity?
Certainly yes! Orbits are chaotic and meaningless in determining what is or is not a planet. That should depend ONLY on the properties of the object itself. Resonances in perturbations drive the high eccentricity of Mercury. There's a small chance of ejecting Mercury from the Solar System. Does that accident make Mercury no longer a planet? There should be many "rogue" planets unattached to any star. That (to me) conclusively demonstrates the shoddy science of making the definition dependent on orbital properties.
With those criteria surely it's not planet 9 or 10 we're searching for but planet 700 and something?
Wrong. You misunderstand. Counting only spheroids in hydrostatic equilibrium we have the consensus eight plus Ceres, Pluto, Eris, and Sedna. So Beelzebrown & Co. are only looking for #13.
Irrelevant since the TNOs are NOT in hydrostatic equilibrium NOT spheroidal and are shaped by solid state physics forces, not gravity.
Pluto is clearly different from the other 8 planets. We didn't know that when it was discovered but we do know now. Not much point hanging onto sentimental labels when we progress in science. We know Pluto is a fascinating thing of beauty, we've been there. But it's not a planet.
Earth is clearly different from the other planets. Pluto was always suspected to be unusual. Each of Mercury, Venus, Mars are also unique. Now that we've been past Pluto we know it is much more active than non planetary TNOs! Much more like a planet! The IAU has capriciously redefined Pluto to be not a planet for non scientific and political reasons ONLY: keep the list of planets short enough so elementary school kids get a short list to memorize.

Scientific reasoning says Pluto, Ceres, Eris, and Sedna have the characteristics of planets. There's no sentimentality there. The only new knowledge is that the IAU promulgated a scientifically indefensible redefinition.
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#17

Post by Graeme1858 »

Well we could argue all day. We agree on some points but not others. But this one is not clear cut with respect to science and logic. It is much more subjective. I agree with both points of your last paragraph.

For you (and most) it's important that it was wrong to change the classification of Pluto for whatever reason. For me it's just names and not so important. What's important for me (and most) is that Pluto is an object which exceeds expectations for interest, curiosity and beauty.


Regards

Graeme
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#18

Post by KingNothing13 »

:popcorn:

I didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest......just wanted to post an interesting article from a scientist that I've seen speak a couple of times, and have both of his books, signed. :confusion-shrug:

Since no one asked - I don't care what we call Pluto - it's there, it exists, it doesn't matter what in our cosmic transient-ness call it. It was there before humans evolved, it will be there when we disappear. :confusion-shrug:
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#19

Post by Richard »

100% KingNothing I grew up with 9 Planets , now 8 , its like downgrading for most , but its still there , but I have never seen it with my limited experience/equipment and desire
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Re: The search for Planet 9

#20

Post by Bigzmey »

KingNothing13 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:08 pm :popcorn:

I didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest......just wanted to post an interesting article from a scientist that I've seen speak a couple of times, and have both of his books, signed. :confusion-shrug:

Since no one asked - I don't care what we call Pluto - it's there, it exists, it doesn't matter what in our cosmic transient-ness call it. It was there before humans evolved, it will be there when we disappear. :confusion-shrug:
Not a hornet's nest (I hope). Just civilized discussion among friends. :)
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102 ED F7; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD F10, 8" SCT F10, Omni XLT 150R Achro F5, Onyx 80ED F6.3; Meade: 80ST Achro F5.
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