Astronomers solve 900-year-old cosmic mystery surrounding Chinese supernova of 1181AD

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Astronomers solve 900-year-old cosmic mystery surrounding Chinese supernova of 1181AD

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Post by notFritzArgelander »


Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Astronomers solve 900-year-old cosmic mystery surrounding Chinese supernova of 1181AD

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From what I read in that article and finding what I think is the original paper, while searching for references to Parker's Star and Pa30, that merger was a higher order WD merger with a CO Type WD. Seems to me that Parker's Star should be large enough to be on the verge of a Type 1a supernova itself.....just no close star to collect mass from. Is my reasoning on the right track?
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Re: Astronomers solve 900-year-old cosmic mystery surrounding Chinese supernova of 1181AD

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Post by notFritzArgelander »


MistrBadgr wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:08 pm From what I read in that article and finding what I think is the original paper, while searching for references to Parker's Star and Pa30, that merger was a higher order WD merger with a CO Type WD. Seems to me that Parker's Star should be large enough to be on the verge of a Type 1a supernova itself.....just no close star to collect mass from. Is my reasoning on the right track?
Pretty much, I'd say. But we don't know the mass in Parker's Star because there is that ejected mass in Pa30.

Notice that the Wikipedia entry for the origin of Type Iax SNs is in need of revision since it only includes a single degenerate accretion ignition scenario. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_Ia_s ... a#Type_Iax

The paper interprets (using the high neon abundance of the nebula) the event as due to a merger of an oxygen-neon WD with a carbon-oxygen WD. Since hydrogen and helium have been burned there isn't enough energy in the available fuel to power a Type Ia burst. I find it extremely intriguing that there is no neutron star but a merged white dwarf/Wolf-Rayet remnant.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Astronomers solve 900-year-old cosmic mystery surrounding Chinese supernova of 1181AD

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Post by helicon »


Pa30 and Parker's star. Very interesting. I wonder why Western sources did not mention it, nor Arab or Persian skywatchers? I guess to the Western mind at the time this was part of the unknowable domain of the beyond, wrapped up in a religious subtext.
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Re: Astronomers solve 900-year-old cosmic mystery surrounding Chinese supernova of 1181AD

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Post by MistrBadgr »


notFritzArgelander wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:47 pm
MistrBadgr wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:08 pm From what I read in that article and finding what I think is the original paper, while searching for references to Parker's Star and Pa30, that merger was a higher order WD merger with a CO Type WD. Seems to me that Parker's Star should be large enough to be on the verge of a Type 1a supernova itself.....just no close star to collect mass from. Is my reasoning on the right track?
Pretty much, I'd say. But we don't know the mass in Parker's Star because there is that ejected mass in Pa30.

Notice that the Wikipedia entry for the origin of Type Iax SNs is in need of revision since it only includes a single degenerate accretion ignition scenario. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_Ia_s ... a#Type_Iax

The paper interprets (using the high neon abundance of the nebula) the event as due to a merger of an oxygen-neon WD with a carbon-oxygen WD. Since hydrogen and helium have been burned there isn't enough energy in the available fuel to power a Type Ia burst. I find it extremely intriguing that there is no neutron star but a merged white dwarf/Wolf-Rayet remnant.
What I am getting from your reply is that we do not know how close Parker's Star is from degenerating further, due to the mass being unknown. Part of that from not knowing the original masses of the two original white dwarfs and part due to not knowing the mass of the ejected Pa30. If it did have enough mass, would it simply drop to a neutron star state with comparatively little explosion and mass expulsion? Or, it this unknown territory?

I wonder:

1. If a star like this were truly at the edge of a collapse, if it could shrink enough over long time from cooling to eventually trigger the start of a colapse due to increased pressure at the core of the object.

2. If it drifted into some large gas/dust cloud, could it take on enough mass over time to maybe go through a cycle of novas until it finally has enough mass to collapse. I am assuming, from your reply that there would most
not be enough energy from the added matter (assuming all of that is lighter atoms with more energy to put into a reaction) to have as large of a resultant explosion as a regular Type 1A supernova. Again, unknown territory?
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Re: Astronomers solve 900-year-old cosmic mystery surrounding Chinese supernova of 1181AD

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Post by notFritzArgelander »


MistrBadgr wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:39 pm
notFritzArgelander wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:47 pm
MistrBadgr wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:08 pm From what I read in that article and finding what I think is the original paper, while searching for references to Parker's Star and Pa30, that merger was a higher order WD merger with a CO Type WD. Seems to me that Parker's Star should be large enough to be on the verge of a Type 1a supernova itself.....just no close star to collect mass from. Is my reasoning on the right track?
Pretty much, I'd say. But we don't know the mass in Parker's Star because there is that ejected mass in Pa30.

Notice that the Wikipedia entry for the origin of Type Iax SNs is in need of revision since it only includes a single degenerate accretion ignition scenario. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_Ia_s ... a#Type_Iax

The paper interprets (using the high neon abundance of the nebula) the event as due to a merger of an oxygen-neon WD with a carbon-oxygen WD. Since hydrogen and helium have been burned there isn't enough energy in the available fuel to power a Type Ia burst. I find it extremely intriguing that there is no neutron star but a merged white dwarf/Wolf-Rayet remnant.
What I am getting from your reply is that we do not know how close Parker's Star is from degenerating further, due to the mass being unknown. Part of that from not knowing the original masses of the two original white dwarfs and part due to not knowing the mass of the ejected Pa30. If it did have enough mass, would it simply drop to a neutron star state with comparatively little explosion and mass expulsion? Or, it this unknown territory?
It's unclear from the paper reported in the article: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2105.12384.pdf

However in the list of references is this paper: https://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/abs/2 ... 32-20.html

Which has more information about the central star. In particular that it is above the Chandrasekhar mass and is not losing mass fast enough to avoid a second SN event. From the conclusions:
The farther evolution of IRAS00500+6713 is spectacu- lar. Based on its empirical mass loss rate and the expected short remaining life time of several 1000yr, the mass of IRAS 00500+6713 will likely remain above the Chandrasekhar limit. Its fate will therefore be to undergo core collapse and to form a neutron star. In the course of this event, IRAS 00500+6713 will manage to produce its second SN, possibly in the form of a fast blue optical transient (Dessart et al. 2006; Lyutikov & Toonen 2019).
Back to MistrBadgr................
MistrBadgr wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:39 pm I wonder:

1. If a star like this were truly at the edge of a collapse, if it could shrink enough over long time from cooling to eventually trigger the start of a colapse due to increased pressure at the core of the object.
Oh yes indeed. White dwarfs and neutron stars can be stabilized at a little above the zero temperature collapse mass by rotation and thermal effects. Once they cool collapse to a NS or BH respectively id definitely on the menu.
2. If it drifted into some large gas/dust cloud, could it take on enough mass over time to maybe go through a cycle of novas until it finally has enough mass to collapse. I am assuming, from your reply that there would most
not be enough energy from the added matter (assuming all of that is lighter atoms with more energy to put into a reaction) to have as large of a resultant explosion as a regular Type 1A supernova. Again, unknown territory?
I think that since this is peculiar object with a peculiar history that the energetics are not favorable for a type Ia SN. Whatever fuel may be acquired, the core has no or inefficient fuel available. The paper I quoted above suggests a fast blue transient SN. I think that's probably right. A brief flash.....
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Astronomers solve 900-year-old cosmic mystery surrounding Chinese supernova of 1181AD

#7

Post by Michael131313 »


Thanks you two for the informative discussion and to nFA for the link.
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