BH information.ý⅞

[Michael131313]

What is the information that dose or dose not pass through the event horizon consist of. In what form would it be kept in the event horizon. Thanks.⁸
.

[notFritzArgelander]

The information that folks worry about are the conserved quantum numbers (of the Standard Model of Particle Physics) that describe the elementary particles that the BH ate. The Model requires that all the numbers that are conserved in its interactions be conserved absolutely.

So a list of the numbers that must be conserved includes:

spin and spin-like quantities:

spin
isospin (a conservation law for strong interactions)
weak isospin (similar to isospin but for weak interactions)

charge and charge like quantities involving particle flavor

electric charge (conserved under electromagnetic interactions)
hypercharge (similar to electric charge but conserved under strong interaction, not under weak)
charm
strangeness
topness
bottomness

There are related quantum numbers:
lepton number
baryon number
X-charge (the conserved charge of the grand unification theory that lurks in the high temperature background of the standard model).

The whole BH information paradox arises from the fact that Hawking radiation is black body and can't remember these numbers.

[notFritzArgelander]

PS

Of course the Standard Model also conserves total energy or mass, momentum and angular momentum but those aren't what worries folks when looking at BH information. In General Relativity the only quantities that characterize BHs are mass, electric charge and spin. There's no room for the others. This is an expression of the profound incompatibility between Quantum and Gravitational Physics.

[Michael131313]

Thank you so very much nFA. I have wondered about this for a while but have never asked. So when I fall into a BH it will not remember "Michael", only which way I am spinning.

[notFritzArgelander]

PPS If I could be permitted a personal reminiscence....

In graduate school we had a lunch seminar where the astrophysics folks gathered and a grad student was assigned a current paper to review. The luck of the draw had it that I was assigned Hawking's original Nature article in which he proposed Hawking radiation. I was astonished by the large turnout. The particle physics group crashed the party. I got to the end without too much trouble. Then the thorny problem of BHs having no room for the above quantum numbers except charge, mass and angular momentum. The particle guys then went for the throat claiming Hawking must be wrong. (He's not, within the limits of GR and semiclassical Quantum physics.)

I had the temerity to suggest that IF space-time was more fundamental than Quantum Physics (which assumes a space time background) THEN maybe gravity did not conserve all those quantum numbers, or words to that effect.

A riot ensued, relativists on one side, particle folks on the other. In the ensuing pandemonium I didn't need to say another thing. The seminar broke up into heated arguments between the two camps. Nearly fifty years later, we don't know much more. We speculate in ignorance.

[notFritzArgelander]

Thank you so very much nFA. I have wondered about this for a while but have never asked. So when I fall into a BH it will not remember "Michael", only which way I am spinning.

We cross posted. I updated. The real answer is that we don't know.

[Michael131313]

Good for you stiring up the pot. Again I thank you and I have bookedmarked this post because it is important to me.