Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
- Frankskywatcher
- Orion Spur Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:30 pm
- 2
- Location: Conway South Carolina USA
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
The short video showing you why you should never look at the sun holy smokes!
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago !
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
- Butterfly Maiden
- Local Group Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 2662
- Joined: Mon May 11, 2020 8:32 pm
- 3
- Location: New Forest, Hampshire, UK
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Photo of the Day
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
That is indeed a very vivid reminder of how NOT to view the Sun.
Thank you for that link Frank.
Thank you for that link Frank.
Vanessa
Nikon D82 Fieldscope with 30x/45x/56x angled eyepiece.
Olympus DPS-1 10x50 binoculars.
Leica 8x32BN binoculars.
Nikon D82 Fieldscope with 30x/45x/56x angled eyepiece.
Olympus DPS-1 10x50 binoculars.
Leica 8x32BN binoculars.
- messier 111
- Universal Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 9482
- Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:49 am
- 3
- Location: Canada's capital region .
- Status:
Online
-
TSS Awards Badges
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
I wonder how many times to say it
thx for the reminder.
thx for the reminder.
I LOVE REFRACTORS ,
REFRACTOR , TS-Optics Doublet SD-APO 125 mm f/7.8 . Lunt 80mm MT Ha Doublet Refractor .
EYEPIECES, Delos , Delite and 26mm Nagler t5 , 2 zoom Svbony 7-21 , Orion Premium Linear BinoViewer .
FILTER , Nebustar 2 tele vue . Apm solar wedge . contrast booster 2 inches .
Mounts , berno mack 3 with telepod , cg-4 motorized , eq6 pro belt drive .
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Isaac Asimov
Jean-Yves
REFRACTOR , TS-Optics Doublet SD-APO 125 mm f/7.8 . Lunt 80mm MT Ha Doublet Refractor .
EYEPIECES, Delos , Delite and 26mm Nagler t5 , 2 zoom Svbony 7-21 , Orion Premium Linear BinoViewer .
FILTER , Nebustar 2 tele vue . Apm solar wedge . contrast booster 2 inches .
Mounts , berno mack 3 with telepod , cg-4 motorized , eq6 pro belt drive .
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Isaac Asimov
Jean-Yves
- Ylem
- Universal Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 7482
- Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 2:54 am
- 4
- Location: Ocean County, New Jersey
- Status:
Online
-
TSS Photo of the Day
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
Holy smokes Batman!
Yikes!
Yikes!
Clear Skies,
-Jeff
Member; ASTRA-NJ
Orion 80ED
Celestron C5, 6SE, Celestar 8
Vixen Porta Mount ll
Coronado PST
A big box of Plossls
Little box of filters
-Jeff
Member; ASTRA-NJ
Orion 80ED
Celestron C5, 6SE, Celestar 8
Vixen Porta Mount ll
Coronado PST
A big box of Plossls
Little box of filters
- chris_g
- Orion Spur Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 891
- Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:30 am
- 3
- Location: Louisiana, U.S.
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
TSS Photo of the Day
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
Good object lesson, very glad someone took the time to demonstrate a super magnifying glass in action.
One of my merit badges when I was in the Boy Scouts was fire safety. You had to know how to start a camp fire and using a magnifying glass was in the handbook.
Good reminder, thank you for sharing that...
One of my merit badges when I was in the Boy Scouts was fire safety. You had to know how to start a camp fire and using a magnifying glass was in the handbook.
Good reminder, thank you for sharing that...
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
Image OTA: EvoStar ED80, WO Z73, C8-A XLT
Mount: EQ6-R Pro Pier, AZ-EQ5 Pro Pier
Guide OTA: Orion 60mm, WO 32mm, ZWO OAG, SV501P
Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
EAA Cam: SVBony SV705C
EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
Session Control: Mini PC/Win11 Pro, APT 4.1, PHD2 2.6.10
Processing: PixInsight, DSS 4.2.6, Adobe PS CC, Astronomy Tools Action Set, Star Spikes Pro
Image OTA: EvoStar ED80, WO Z73, C8-A XLT
Mount: EQ6-R Pro Pier, AZ-EQ5 Pro Pier
Guide OTA: Orion 60mm, WO 32mm, ZWO OAG, SV501P
Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
EAA Cam: SVBony SV705C
EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
Session Control: Mini PC/Win11 Pro, APT 4.1, PHD2 2.6.10
Processing: PixInsight, DSS 4.2.6, Adobe PS CC, Astronomy Tools Action Set, Star Spikes Pro
- Michael131313
- Orion Spur Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 966
- Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:39 pm
- 4
- Location: San Jose del Valle , Nayarit, Mexico
- Status:
Offline
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
Thanks for the post. I knew it was bad, but that quick and powerful. Wow. Don't do that.
ES AR 102 102mm, f/6.5, ES 254mm f/5 DOB, Obie 10x50, GSO SV 30mm, ES 68° 20mm, ES 82° 14mm, 11mm, 8.8 mm, 6.8mm, 4.7mm. Twilight 1 mount.
- Frankskywatcher
- Orion Spur Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:30 pm
- 2
- Location: Conway South Carolina USA
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
You are welcome and I could not believe how fast it started burning,yikes!Butterfly Maiden wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:20 pm That is indeed a very vivid reminder of how NOT to view the Sun.
Thank you for that link Frank.
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago !
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
- Frankskywatcher
- Orion Spur Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:30 pm
- 2
- Location: Conway South Carolina USA
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
I agree,you see the stickers on the older scopes but holy smokes!messier 111 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:24 pm I wonder how many times to say it
thx for the reminder.
Kinda made me think of the kid in The Christmas Story “ you’ll burn( shoot) your eyes out kid “!
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago !
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
- Frankskywatcher
- Orion Spur Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:30 pm
- 2
- Location: Conway South Carolina USA
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
You made me laugh !Michael131313 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 12:30 am Thanks for the post. I knew it was bad, but that quick and powerful. Wow. Don't do that.
“Wow don’t do that “ you point out how dumb it is but it’s amazing how dumb some people can be !
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago !
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
- Makuser
- In Memory
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 6394
- Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 12:53 am
- 4
- Location: Rockledge, FL.
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
TSS Photo of the Day
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
Hi Frank. I remember as a kid some guys would use just a small stamp magnifier and held matches or even a piece of paper at the focal point while aimed at the sun and start in on fire. Also don't trust those old cheap sun filters that screw into the back of an eyepiece. With a telescope you have very much light gathering power and the heat can be very hot at the focal point and those cheap filters can crack while you are viewing and boil your eyeball. Always use a quality glass or mylar film solar filter over the front of your telescope (or binoculars). And even veteran amateur astronomers can sometimes get careless regarding the power of the sun. I remember reading something about this years ago, so I searched and found the link to this story.
https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-n ... telescope/
Thanks for finding and sharing this important safety link with us Frank and keep up your great work.
https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-n ... telescope/
Thanks for finding and sharing this important safety link with us Frank and keep up your great work.
Marshall
Sky-Watcher 90mm f/13.8 Maksutov-Cassegrain on motorized Multimount
Orion Astroview 120ST f/5 Refractor on EQ3 mount
Celestron Comet Catcher 140mm f/3.64 Schmidt-Newtonian on alt-az mount
Celestron Omni XLT150R f/5 Refractor on CG4 mount with dual axis drives.
Orion 180mm f/15 Maksutov-Cassegrain on CG5-GT Goto mount.
Orion XT12i 12" f/4.9 Dobsonian Intelliscope.
Kamakura 7x35 Binoculars and Celestron SkyMaster 15x70 Binoculars. ZWO ASI 120MC camera.
>)))))*>
Sky-Watcher 90mm f/13.8 Maksutov-Cassegrain on motorized Multimount
Orion Astroview 120ST f/5 Refractor on EQ3 mount
Celestron Comet Catcher 140mm f/3.64 Schmidt-Newtonian on alt-az mount
Celestron Omni XLT150R f/5 Refractor on CG4 mount with dual axis drives.
Orion 180mm f/15 Maksutov-Cassegrain on CG5-GT Goto mount.
Orion XT12i 12" f/4.9 Dobsonian Intelliscope.
Kamakura 7x35 Binoculars and Celestron SkyMaster 15x70 Binoculars. ZWO ASI 120MC camera.
>)))))*>
- Chich
- Pluto Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 483
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:40 am
- 4
- Location: Vancouver Island, BC
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
A friend told me of his uncle who decided to 'take a peek' at the sun with binoculars. He at least had enough sense to use only one barrel and so lost only one eye.
Did anyone else have those awfulEP sun filters that came with the unbiquitous department store 70mm back when? Had one but never used it.
Did anyone else have those awful
Keep calm and set SCE To AUX
Wildland fire: a strong tradition since 440,000,000 BCE
NEW for 345,000,000 BCE - Crown fires!
- Thefatkitty
- Co-Administrator
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 4134
- Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 4:20 pm
- 4
- Location: Ontario, Canada
- Status:
Online
-
TSS Awards Badges
TSS Photo of the Day
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
I still have a few that came with old scopes I bought; there was one in the 1961 Tasco 60mm I bought several years ago. Dangerous then, I can imagine it would be even more fragile 60+ years later!Chich wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 6:53 pm A friend told me of his uncle who decided to 'take a peek' at the sun with binoculars. He at least had enough sense to use only one barrel and so lost only one eye.
Did anyone else have those awful EP sun filters that came with the unbiquitous department store 70mm back when? Had one but never used it.
Mark
"The Hankmeister" Celestron 8SE, orange tube Vixen made C80, CG4 & AZ-EQ5 mounts.
Too much Towa glass/mirrors.
H/A - PST stage 2 mod with a Baader 90mm ERF on a Celestron XLT 102 (thanks Mike!)
Ca-K - W/O 61mm, Antares 1.6 barlow, Baader 3.8 OD and Ca-K filters with a ZWO ASI174mm.
W/L - C80-HD with Baader 5.0 & 3.8 Solar film, Solar Continuum 7.5nm and UV/IR filters with a Canon EOS 550D.
Oh yeah, and Solar Cycle 25
"The Hankmeister" Celestron 8SE, orange tube Vixen made C80, CG4 & AZ-EQ5 mounts.
Too much Towa glass/mirrors.
H/A - PST stage 2 mod with a Baader 90mm ERF on a Celestron XLT 102 (thanks Mike!)
Ca-K - W/O 61mm, Antares 1.6 barlow, Baader 3.8 OD and Ca-K filters with a ZWO ASI174mm.
W/L - C80-HD with Baader 5.0 & 3.8 Solar film, Solar Continuum 7.5nm and UV/IR filters with a Canon EOS 550D.
Oh yeah, and Solar Cycle 25
- JSBach1801
- Pluto Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 424
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:02 am
- 1
- Location: Logan, UT
- Status:
Offline
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
But what if you want to go blind?
Lyle In Utah
Telescopes: William Optics Zenithstar 73 III APO, ZWO 30mm f/4 Mini Guide Scope
Cameras: Sony a7IV Mirrorless, ZWO ASI120MM-MINI
Mount: Sky Watcher EQM-35i
Control: ASIAIR Plus
Telescopes: William Optics Zenithstar 73 III APO, ZWO 30mm f/4 Mini Guide Scope
Cameras: Sony a7IV Mirrorless, ZWO ASI120MM-MINI
Mount: Sky Watcher EQM-35i
Control: ASIAIR Plus
- JSBach1801
- Pluto Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 424
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:02 am
- 1
- Location: Logan, UT
- Status:
Offline
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
So, on a bright day, the pupil of your eye ranges from 2-4 mm in diameter. Using 3 mm then, the surface area of your pupil (the area through which light can pass and be directed onto your retina) is 7.1 x 10^(-6) m^2.
Now, my own personal telescope has an objective element with a diameter of 73 mm. Giving a surface area of 4.1 x 10^(-3) m^2.
Assuming all the light gathered by my scope gets focused through the eye piece and into a person's eye, the telescope would be sending somewhere around 580 time MORE light into a person's pupil than by simply looking at the sun with the naked eye.
Now, my own personal telescope has an objective element with a diameter of 73 mm. Giving a surface area of 4.1 x 10^(-3) m^2.
Assuming all the light gathered by my scope gets focused through the eye piece and into a person's eye, the telescope would be sending somewhere around 580 time MORE light into a person's pupil than by simply looking at the sun with the naked eye.
Lyle In Utah
Telescopes: William Optics Zenithstar 73 III APO, ZWO 30mm f/4 Mini Guide Scope
Cameras: Sony a7IV Mirrorless, ZWO ASI120MM-MINI
Mount: Sky Watcher EQM-35i
Control: ASIAIR Plus
Telescopes: William Optics Zenithstar 73 III APO, ZWO 30mm f/4 Mini Guide Scope
Cameras: Sony a7IV Mirrorless, ZWO ASI120MM-MINI
Mount: Sky Watcher EQM-35i
Control: ASIAIR Plus
- SkyHiker
- Local Group Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 2293
- Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 8:40 pm
- 4
- Location: Santa Barbara, CA
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
TSS Photo of the Day
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
Without accurate tracking that scope would have produced smoke too. I once tried projecting an image of the sun on a white board using a 4.5" supermarket Newt with a plastic eyepiece. I aimed the scope at the sun by looking at the shadow of tne scope on the ground. It projected successfully but as soon as the aim was off, the scope started smoking. That must have been the field stop of the eyepiece once the image of the sun wandered out of the center and on to the field stop. It was a fun thing to try but don't do this with anything worth more than you care to lose. Or better, don't do it. The Newt still works though.
Pointing a scope at the sun should not be done in public IMHO. Bystanders (kids) who watch it from a distance not noticing the filter may try it at home thinking it's okay. Or a prankster may pull the filter off, who knows. It should never be done with collapsible Dobs or truss Dobs without a shroud. I recall reading about a structure set on fire by an unshrouded truss
... Henk. Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
- Frankskywatcher
- Orion Spur Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:30 pm
- 2
- Location: Conway South Carolina USA
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
That cracked me up thanks for the laugh my friend !
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago !
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
- Frankskywatcher
- Orion Spur Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:30 pm
- 2
- Location: Conway South Carolina USA
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
HOLY SMOKES Marshall what’s the odds of that happening I bet that guy was bummed!Makuser wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 5:00 pm Hi Frank. I remember as a kid some guys would use just a small stamp magnifier and held matches or even a piece of paper at the focal point while aimed at the sun and start in on fire. Also don't trust those old cheap sun filters that screw into the back of an eyepiece. With a telescope you have very much light gathering power and the heat can be very hot at the focal point and those cheap filters can crack while you are viewing and boil your eyeball. Always use a quality glass or mylar film solar filter over the front of your telescope (or binoculars). And even veteran amateur astronomers can sometimes get careless regarding the power of the sun. I remember reading something about this years ago, so I searched and found the link to this story.
https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-n ... telescope/
Thanks for finding and sharing this important safety link with us Frank and keep up your great work.
There was a video link but it was dead but I’m sure I can find that video if I try.
I’m to timid to even attempt to use my scope to look at the sun and after having both eyeballs worked on and I now have
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago !
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
- Frankskywatcher
- Orion Spur Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:30 pm
- 2
- Location: Conway South Carolina USA
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
That video nailed it and that’s exactly why I am too timid into afraid to even try to look at the sun from my own scope. I don’t trust any kind of a filter. How ever if I knew of someone who had a scope that they had solely dedicated, no pun, intended for looking at solar, flares, etc. etc. I might consider it on if that person how to use that scope more than once without any problem to me it’s just too risky!Chich wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 6:53 pm A friend told me of his uncle who decided to 'take a peek' at the sun with binoculars. He at least had enough sense to use only one barrel and so lost only one eye.
Did anyone else have those awful EP sun filters that came with the unbiquitous department store 70mm back when? Had one but never used it.
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago !
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
- Frankskywatcher
- Orion Spur Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:30 pm
- 2
- Location: Conway South Carolina USA
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
I remember doing that exact same thing as a scout and as I think, Marshall already also stated that I remember we used to take a stamp, collecting magnifying glass and use that to create a fire!chris_g wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:12 pm Good object lesson, very glad someone took the time to demonstrate a super magnifying glass in action.
One of my merit badges when I was in the Boy Scouts was fire safety. You had to know how to start a camp fire and using a magnifying glass was in the handbook.
Good reminder, thank you for sharing that...
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago !
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
- Frankskywatcher
- Orion Spur Ambassador
- Articles: 0
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:30 pm
- 2
- Location: Conway South Carolina USA
- Status:
Offline
-
TSS Awards Badges
Re: Wow Don’t Ever Do This 😳
I can’t believe that 580 more yikes !JSBach1801 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:38 pm So, on a bright day, the pupil of your eye ranges from 2-4 mm in diameter. Using 3 mm then, the surface area of your pupil (the area through which light can pass and be directed onto your retina) is 7.1 x 10^(-6) m^2.
Now, my own personal telescope has an objective element with a diameter of 73 mm. Giving a surface area of 4.1 x 10^(-3) m^2.
Assuming all the light gathered by my scope gets focused through the eye piece and into a person's eye, the telescope would be sending somewhere around 580 time MORE light into a person's pupil than by simply looking at the sun with the naked eye.
Gee if I had known there was so much to see I would have started decades ago !
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
Equipment :
Apertura AD10” Dobsonian
Polaris 4” Dobsonian
7x50 binoculars
Create an account or sign in to join the discussion
You need to be a member in order to post a reply
Create an account
Not a member? register to join our community
Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics
It’s free and only takes a minute