SCT Tube Damage

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UlteriorModem
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#21

Post by UlteriorModem »


Once a year here, usually in the Fall we have pollen so bad that imaging is out of the question lest your telescope and optics be coated with pollen.

Reason I mentioned it is that the little streaks that the pollen bombs leave look a lot like the swatches in the images.

The pollen if not attended to will absolutely eat your coatings!
Tom

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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#22

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Graeme1858 wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:01 pm
UlteriorModem wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:52 pm BTW could that be from pollen?

Interesting thought! Are there precedents?
With an open OTA yes. Exceedingly rare with a closed tube.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#23

Post by JayTee »


Sorry I'm late joining this.

My C11 had exactly that only worse (mine was so bad it looked like the aluminum was oxidizing) from a year of outside neglect prior to when I bought it used. In my case it was so bad I had to send it back to Celestron and they refurbish the scope for me by supplying a new tube. The total cost was less than $300 because this scope was well out of warranty. Still, I thought this a reasonable repair price for a scope I picked up at one-third the cost of a new one.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#24

Post by Graeme1858 »


UlteriorModem wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:33 pm Once a year here, usually in the Fall we have pollen so bad that imaging is out of the question lest your telescope and optics be coated with pollen.

Reason I mentioned it is that the little streaks that the pollen bombs leave look a lot like the swatches in the images.

The pollen if not attended to will absolutely eat your coatings!

That's interesting! Perhaps I'll pass that on to the supplier. Even so, I'm not impressed if they failed to prepare the aluminium prior to coating as Gabby suggests or they use an internal tube coating that is susceptible to pollen on an instrument intended for use as an outdoor hobby! It's a £1,400 OTA and they show off about the quality of the Starbright/XLT optical coatings.

Regards

Graeme
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#25

Post by Graeme1858 »


JayTee wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:51 pm Sorry I'm late joining this.

My C11 had exactly that only worse (mine was so bad it looked like the aluminum was oxidizing) from a year of outside neglect prior to when I bought it used. In my case it was so bad I had to send it back to Celestron and they refurbish the scope for me by supplying a new tube. The total cost was less than $300 because this scope was well out of warranty. Still, I thought this a reasonable repair price for a scope I picked up at one-third the cost of a new one.

Cheers,
JT

It does look like the coating has blistered to expose bare aluminium. If it's not oxidising all over under the paint it will where the blisters are.

Regards

Graeme
______________________________________________
Celestron 9.25 f10 SCT, f6.3FR, CGX mount.
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC
ZWO EFW, ZWO OAG, ASI220MM Mini.
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#26

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Graeme1858 wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:24 pm
JayTee wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:51 pm Sorry I'm late joining this.

My C11 had exactly that only worse (mine was so bad it looked like the aluminum was oxidizing) from a year of outside neglect prior to when I bought it used. In my case it was so bad I had to send it back to Celestron and they refurbish the scope for me by supplying a new tube. The total cost was less than $300 because this scope was well out of warranty. Still, I thought this a reasonable repair price for a scope I picked up at one-third the cost of a new one.

Cheers,
JT

It does look like the coating has blistered to expose bare aluminium. If it's not oxidising all over under the paint it will where the blisters are.

Regards

Graeme
That argues for the aluminum not being properly prepared to receive the coating!
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#27

Post by JayTee »


notFritzArgelander wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:28 pm That argues for the aluminum not being properly prepared to receive the coating!
It makes you wonder if they, the engineers, thought, hey, it's a closed system why bother. It would be a cost-saving move.

JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#28

Post by Graeme1858 »


JayTee wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:13 am
notFritzArgelander wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:28 pm That argues for the aluminum not being properly prepared to receive the coating!
It makes you wonder if they, the engineers, thought, hey, it's a closed system why bother. It would be a cost-saving move.

JT

The CGX was a new thing when I got it, taking over from the AVX. If that was the thinking at the time then right about now they're going to be getting lots of complaints! I had best get in quick!

Regards

Graeme
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#29

Post by JayTee »


I wouldn't worry about your mount Graeme, we're speaking about the inside of an SCT telescope tube.

JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#30

Post by Graeme1858 »


JayTee wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:42 am I wouldn't worry about your mount Graeme, we're speaking about the inside of an SCT telescope tube.

JT

Yeah, I know. My point is, if they changed the spec of the tube when they brought out the CGX then there is a possibility that there's going to be lots of SCT tube paint failures about now.

Anyway, I going to send the tube back to the supplier so I've stripped the motorised focuser and the dovetail bars off it prior to posting.

Then a thought struck me, I was panicking about not having a telescope but I can bolt the two dovetail bars together back to back and use my 80mm guidescope on the CGX mount! A spot of wide angle astronomy might be nice until they fix my SCT.

The February Monthly Challenge might be challenging without a guidescope:


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But M45 will be framed very nicely


Image


Regards

Graeme
______________________________________________
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#31

Post by Tim456 »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:59 pm It would be hard to say but to me it seems improperly cleaned aluminium before painting.
It will be interesting to hear what they tell Graeme.
Ding ding ding! Gabby hit the nail right on the head. This is a manufacturing defect and your scope is still under warranty. Celestron needs to provide you with a new OTA or refurb your OTA. Do not accept any other solution.
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#32

Post by Graeme1858 »


Tim456 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:25 am
Lady Fraktor wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:59 pm It would be hard to say but to me it seems improperly cleaned aluminium before painting.
It will be interesting to hear what they tell Graeme.
Ding ding ding! Gabby hit the nail right on the head. This is a manufacturing defect and your scope is still under warranty. Celestron needs to provide you with a new OTA or refurb your OTA. Do not accept any other solution.

Thanks Tim but the Celestron telescopes have a two year warranty and so it expired last November. However, I do believe it is a manufacturing defect so I will be arguing the point with them.

Regards

Graeme
______________________________________________
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ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#33

Post by Tim456 »


Graeme1858 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:10 pm
Thanks Tim but the Celestron telescopes have a two year warranty and so it expired last November. However, I do believe it is a manufacturing defect so I will be arguing the point with them.

Regards

Graeme


Perhaps I misread? If you bought it November 2018 it should be under warranty until November 2020.
Telescopes: Nexstar 8i, Astromaster 90AZ
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#34

Post by yobbo89 »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:59 pm It would be hard to say but to me it seems improperly cleaned aluminium before painting.
It will be interesting to hear what they tell Graeme.
yep pretty common, we send out stuff and if there's a tiny bit of oxide on it then the painters will send it back, including powder coating and anodized.and it can be pretty trick to see it sometimes, you'll have to look at it on an angle to see a tinge in the metal
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#35

Post by Graeme1858 »


Tim456 wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:21 am
Graeme1858 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:10 pm
Thanks Tim but the Celestron telescopes have a two year warranty and so it expired last November. However, I do believe it is a manufacturing defect so I will be arguing the point with them.

Regards

Graeme


Perhaps I misread? If you bought it November 2018 it should be under warranty until November 2020.

Blimey! Simple arithmetic appears to have eluded me! You are correct. Well that makes me feel better.

Regards

Graeme
______________________________________________
Celestron 9.25 f10 SCT, f6.3FR, CGX mount.
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#36

Post by John Baars »


Sorry I come in so late, but I think Lady Fraktor is right.
Lady Fraktor wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:59 pm (...) but to me it seems improperly cleaned aluminium before painting.(...)
I have seen aluminium reacting like this before. The corroded surface however protects against further corrosion. The original paint will not sustain
Coming from a Amateur Telescope Making - background I seriously would consider flocking right now. Repaint under warranty means not having your telescope for months and it starts all over again. And whilst at it, from an observers' point of view, I would isolate the outside tube too. As a result cooling becomes less turbulent. But the latter aside.
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#37

Post by Bigzmey »


Graeme, did you hear back from Celestron?
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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#38

Post by Graeme1858 »


John Baars wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:35 pm Sorry I come in so late, but I think Lady Fraktor is right.
Lady Fraktor wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:59 pm (...) but to me it seems improperly cleaned aluminium before painting.(...)
I have seen aluminum reacting like this before. The corroded surface however protects against further corrosion. The original paint will not sustain
Coming from a Amateur Telescope Making - background I seriously would consider flocking right now. Repaint under warranty means not having your telescope for months and it starts all over again. And whilst at it, from an observers' point of view, I would isolate the outside tube too. As a result cooling becomes less turbulent. But the latter aside.

Thanks John

You're quite right. I sent the OTA back to the supplier in the middle of February and I'm still without. I've not been able to pick up the CGX for a few weeks after an operation, the plan was to observe through the guide scope as a temporary measure but I didn't implement the plan!

Hopefully the fix will be a replacement rather than a repaint and I won't have to apply flocking. External insulation sounds intriguing though.

Regards

Graeme

Bigzmey wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:31 pm Graeme, did you hear back from Celestron?

Not heard from Celestron but the suppliers acknowledged the problem and advised a replacement would be in order but would need Celestron to ratify.

I need to phone them again tomorrow!

Regards

Graeme
______________________________________________
Celestron 9.25 f10 SCT, f6.3FR, CGX mount.
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC
ZWO EFW, ZWO OAG, ASI220MM Mini.
APM 11x70 ED APO Binoculars.

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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#39

Post by UlteriorModem »


A replacement would be a good measure. Hopefully they got the prep and paint right this time.
Tom

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Re: SCT Tube Damage

#40

Post by Graeme1858 »


Well I finally heard back from Rother Valley Optics, the telescope supplier. They sent the tube back to Celestron UK who responded thus:

The first is that it is glaringly obvious on close inspection that someone has opened up the optics on this tube. The fastar logo on the corrector is upside down for a start, then there is a length of Sellotape on the corrector edge UNDER the retaining ring. There is smears on the inside of the corrector from being wiped, and the corrector is loose in its housing, lastly there are several large finger prints right inside the OTA on the black paint near the primary mirror( I wear rubber glovers when working on optics so not guilty)
I have pictures I can send if you like?

I have had the corrector out to look at the marks internally, and I can see that the marks are very well established, I don’t know what made them, but think it very unlikely it was water. They are all mostly streaked in one direction so look as if they have been wiped.

My honest opinion is that someone has sprayed a chemical or cleaning agent into the OTA to clean it and damaged the paint. It certainly didn’t leave the factory as described above and would have been unusable with the corrector so loose, and my professional opinion is that something other than water has accessed the OTA and eaten away at the paint. If we had an issue with a batch of flocking paint that reacted to water then it would show on multiple OTA, not just one as the are painted in batches of 50-100.

Rother Valley Optics added:

Hi Graeme,

One thing we can do to help, is we can ask Celestron UK to send the OTA back and we can touch the inside of the tube up. It may not be a perfect match though, but it will be far better than leaving it.

As I said before, we want to do as much as we can to help you with this.

Kind Regards,

Adam Khatib

So I responded with this:

Adam

I fail to see the logic of over painting something that clearly has a problem with the paint that was applied in the first place! Which part of ‘manufacturing defect’ do you not understand? The first time I bought a telescope from you, an Evo, it was faulty. You didn’t believe me then either. I told you the wireless function was faulty and you ‘tested it’ and claimed it was ok. Only later to tell me the circuit board had a fault.

So why did Celestron not just state that the warranty is voided because I opened the tube? Surely that would have saved them from making up bullshit? I am being judged by someone whose ‘professional opinion’ is unaware that the fastar logo in on the secondary mirror, am I not allowed to remove that either? The Sellotape marker is required to correctly reassemble the corrector plate. “There is smears” ??? The man doesn’t even have a basic grasp of the English language. Also, the corrector plate was not loose in its housing when I sent it back to you. So, thanks for that to whoever didn’t put it in properly or who made it up. If I had not opened it would they have removed the corrector plate, dripped some water on the paint and claimed there was nothing wrong with it? Are they now saying that the paint on the inside of a Celestron OTA is not sufficiently robust to cope with an optical cleaning fluid being sprayed on it? (And no, I didn’t) I can’t believe there is no knowledge of this condition within Celestron. It looks to me like they have a problem they are hoping will go away. It won’t. I am a Fellow of the Royal Astronomy Society, it should be fairly simple to find someone who knows someone with influence within Celestron. I am also an active member of a number of Astronomy forums, perhaps someone else has fallen foul of this Celestron manufacturing problem and coverup.

I can’t begin to tell you how disappointing this has been. I can’t believe that both Rother Valley Optics and Celestron treat your customers with such disdain. Just send the telescope back to me.

John was right (above) all along. Send it back and you don't have a telescope for a couple of months! Looks like I'll be starting a new topic on how to apply a flock coating to the inside of a SCT tube when I finally get it back!

Regards

Graeme
______________________________________________
Celestron 9.25 f10 SCT, f6.3FR, CGX mount.
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC
ZWO EFW, ZWO OAG, ASI220MM Mini.
APM 11x70 ED APO Binoculars.

https://www.averywayobservatory.co.uk/
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