King of planets

[TareqPhoto]

Hello again,

Well, since i bought my Mak last year and i converted to do planetary or solar system more over DSO, and planets are definitely one of targets i did, and there is no such a planetary imaging if it didn't include the kind of planets itself .... JUPITER.

I keep hating my Mak results on planets because i always keep comparing it to the bigger scopes, no match in quality, many liked my images that is normal, but i really wanted to jump to higher levels while i am just started out, that is because i trusted my skills and i trust that with the right strong tool/gear everything is possible, this image was one of my starts into planetary last year, and this image really illusion my mind that i can do more and more, so that in this year i acquired a 20" Dob, it didn't finish as i didn't pay the fund yet only the initial about 15% only, only for the structure, and to complete it i may need to wait until 2021 anyway, so i was deciding maybe next year i should get something like 12" reflector [Newt or Dob] to show what i am capable of on planets, all the best images i like are from larger scopes going down to 10" or 8"-9.25", and still i prefer larger always, so i will never play with scopes such as my Mak or 8"-10" forever for planets, aperture win here under nice seeing, even if all will talk about seeing, i prefer to use 20" under poor seeing over 6"-8" under nice seeing, long story, just comment on this image and i have my plans for planets later.

[Juno16]

Very nice image Tareq!

Thanks,
Jim

[TareqPhoto]

Very nice image Tareq!

Thanks,
Jim

Thanks Jim!

[Don Quixote]

Hello Tareq.

Thank you for posting one of your first Jupiter images.

Thank you for sharing your experiences and your plans.
I am sorry your imaging has been frustrating to you.

Can you give some details about the image you have posted here...what equipment you used, the exposure, data processing you have done?

Thank you.

[bladekeeper]

Very nice Jupiter image, Tareq!

[TareqPhoto]

Hello Tareq.

Thank you for posting one of your first Jupiter images.

Thank you for sharing your experiences and your plans.
I am sorry your imaging has been frustrating to you.

Can you give some details about the image you have posted here...what equipment you used, the exposure, data processing you have done?

Thank you.

Hello Don,

Thank you very much!

I am not frustrated, but i am disappointed that my life situations is getting worse and worse so i couldn't upgrade on time, and this frustration if real it means i trust or believe myself that i can do better, first i wasn't sure until i started it, and i shocked to find out that there are so many people started long years ago before me and they wish to reach my level, that put me in a situation where i have to do something to improve my level in short time significantly then, and after all researches i found out that i almost have everything except 2 things, seeing because it is not in my control but we still have nice seeing many nights, and big aperture scope as i saw so so many mind blowing from those scopes anyway and it is nothing difficult, it is physics so simple.

I can't remember the whole details as it is from last year, but i remember it was taken by my Skywatcher 180mm Mak, ZWO ASI385MC, i used Sharpcap, not sure how many frames or exposure, but i think maybe 3 minutes video or 2 minutes, and then i used Autostakkert for stacking, and maybe Registax for further sharpening[Wavelets settings] and align the colors[RGB] and correct the orientation, and then i always finish with Photoshop for retouch or fining the final result mainly noise reduction and little shapness.

[TareqPhoto]

Very nice Jupiter image, Tareq!

Thank you Bryan!

[Don Quixote]

Hello Tareq.

Thank you for posting one of your first Jupiter images.

Thank you for sharing your experiences and your plans.
I am sorry your imaging has been frustrating to you.

Can you give some details about the image you have posted here...what equipment you used, the exposure, data processing you have done?

Thank you.

Hello Don,

Thank you very much!

I am not frustrated, but i am disappointed that my life situations is getting worse and worse so i couldn't upgrade on time, and this frustration if real it means i trust or believe myself that i can do better, first i wasn't sure until i started it, and i shocked to find out that there are so many people started long years ago before me and they wish to reach my level, that put me in a situation where i have to do something to improve my level in short time significantly then, and after all researches i found out that i almost have everything except 2 things, seeing because it is not in my control but we still have nice seeing many nights, and big aperture scope as i saw so so many mind blowing from those scopes anyway and it is nothing difficult, it is physics so simple.

I can't remember the whole details as it is from last year, but i remember it was taken by my Skywatcher 180mm Mak, ZWO ASI385MC, i used Sharpcap, not sure how many frames or exposure, but i think maybe 3 minutes video or 2 minutes, and then i used Autostakkert for stacking, and maybe Registax for further sharpening[Wavelets settings] and align the colors[RGB] and correct the orientation, and then i always finish with Photoshop for retouch or fining the final result mainly noise reduction and little shapness.

In this case as you have outlined your process. Thank you.

This image is nothing to be ashamed of.
You underestimate yourself.

In my opinion the issues with this image have nothing to do with the difference between an 8 inch objective and a 12 inch objective.

This image has very good data. There are great details here.

The focus is off a bit. So learn why.

This may be a focusing skill issue or you may have been working against poor seeing conditions. Seeing conditions is the biggest hill one must climb in planetary astrophotography.

Poor seeing conditions cannot be wholely overcome by more aperture or more equipment. Poor seeing is the leveler of the playing field for astrophotography, especially planetary astrophotography.

You do yourself an injustice by being so harsh on yourself. You have made a good image here. A bit more perseverance and you will find a triumph. You are so close.

Do this for yourself Tareq, not for other people, not to compare yourself always. This will take away the joy of sharing the experience of the beauty of the celestial bodies, sharing with all who have gone before us. since the beginning of time, and those who will follow. The heavens are our one common denominator, our human fellowship.

We are all the subjects of this majesty. We are not its master.

I ask you to reconsider the equipment you already have and try again.

Otherwise I fear that you may find yourself chasing the wind.

I am sorry to hear that your life situation is getting worse Tareq. The world is a desperate place.
I wish you peace in all things.

[SparWeb]

HI Tareq,
Don't be so hard on yourself. I don't have the hardware or the temperament to get such a fine pic of THE KING so I get to enjoy yours.
Having treated so many DSO photos myself, I know what it's like to get to the end of hours of processing and realize "oh well that's all I can get".
Sometimes it feels discouraging but when I come back the next day and look at it fresh, it's much more satisfying to look at.
I can't offer better advice on new scopes than you've already got from Not-Fritz, but I would add that I hope you get a scope/mount combo that you simply enjoy using.
Entirely selfish reasons for me to say this - I want you to post nice pics more often!

[Peter802]

Very nice Jupiter image Tareq.
Thank you for sharing it with us.

[Lady Fraktor]

A great image, a lot of details in there Tareq.

[Bigzmey]

Great capture!

[TareqPhoto]

Thank you very much all!

My point in all that is, i always learn and keep learning, but i don't like to stop where i am, some think i am rushing, but the problem is sometimes it is not about rushing, it is about what to use or the right tool, it is very crazy idea if someone telling me dig a hole by a spoon or use a hammer, they will do the job but it will take very long time and it won't do the job at best, so if someone told me you are doing great with your 7" or 8" it means they don't trust me i can do better with larger scopes, and it is also leaving a question in mind "If 6" up to 8" or 10" is all enough then why those big names using larger scopes such as that legendary 14" SCT?", sometimes i feel it is not fair i use 6" or 8" while others using 14" and 16" and shine high, they have poor seeing too and still produce amazing results and they get excellent seeing, i also get poor seeing and excellent seeing, so i don't like to feel as i don't deserve larger as others did, not many but there are some did, it is just a matter of affording things not a matter of skills or capability of using it, i already learning how to use stuff and keep learning.

At the end, when i upgrade or buy higher gear it is to satisfy myself first, and i will never buy if i know it will never add anything, i just got tired many told me don't rush or don't get something else when so so so many people are in awww mind blowing with results from those big scopes, there are 2 in my countries using bigger scopes with much better results than me, in same country which we have nice seeing or same seeing, and in a local group their results are always much appreciated than me, and funny is that one of them did buy 11" and 14" together very quick and decided to sell that 11" and he already ordering bigger scope than his 14" in quick time, so rude if others accepting it for others or him and not accepting it for me, i can't buy now but i will never stop thinking about bigger scope for planetary, it is very simple, under nice seeing there is no match to larger aperture, unless you really don't care about those larger scopes, i dream of perfectionism as some told me, i doubt that my ST80 or 7" Mak can surpass those larger under excellent seeing, i did use it since last year and this year and there is nothing more at all i can add, i already showed them my results and they are all respected me, but to me it is like the time to upgrade already from 7"/8", 2 years is long enough, i don't think you ask me to spend 5 years to think about it, eventually i will show you my results I've done so you can see, i try to prove myself to many, it is just i don't know if they really trust me with larger scope or they just don't care whatever i use, who knows.

Thanks again all, i will share more later.

[Hankmeister3]

Excellent Jupiter capture, Tareq.

Pursuit of perfection or excellence is what makes us all better at what we do. But don't let that pursuit rob you of the joy and sense of accomplishment that you should have for doing something that 99.99% of the people on planet Earth haven't done or can't do! AP itself isn't a competition, it's a work of joy and wonderment. BTW, there's no such thing as perfection in this terrestrial realm anyway so approach this wonderful hobby with that in mind.

I'm really blown away by the lunar and Jupiter images you've already posted here. Relax and enjoy the works of your hands because you're already top-tier when it comes to amateur AP. And remember there's a whole 'nother world of visual astronomy (in which I admit to being very deficit in myself) which is just as cool, important and satisfying as AP.

To play off your title for this Jupiter image, Tareq … "It's good to be King!" (That was a line from Mel Brooks' "History of the World, Part 1). Heh!

[TareqPhoto]

Excellent Jupiter capture, Tareq.

Pursuit of perfection or excellence is what makes us all better at what we do. But don't let that pursuit rob you of the joy and sense of accomplishment that you should have for doing something that 99.99% of the people on planet Earth haven't done or can't do! AP itself isn't a competition, it's a work of joy and wonderment. BTW, there's no such thing as perfection in this terrestrial realm anyway so approach this wonderful hobby with that in mind.

I'm really blown away by the lunar and Jupiter images you've already posted here. Relax and enjoy the works of your hands because you're already top-tier when it comes to amateur AP. And remember there's a whole 'nother world of visual astronomy (in which I admit to being very deficit in myself) which is just as cool, important and satisfying as AP.

To play off your title for this Jupiter image, Tareq … "It's good to be King!" (That was a line from Mel Brooks' "History of the World, Part 1). Heh!

I don't know what is your name, is it Hank maybe?

Let me say that, i am enjoying AP as much as i keep doing it, it is just sometimes with all of what i do in the past in photography wasn't much appreciated or let's say it always get lost because there are others always showing off with equipment and techniques and results, when i came here to Astronomy it was also the top high level/quality results what drove me into it, so i wanted to be also recognized or well appreciated of my work rather than i post so so many ok not bad results and few likes or comments and others are keep reaching out of world levels, and i still remember by end of 2017 and beginning of 2018 because i was so excited i kept asking so so many questions in Facebook groups that led some or maybe many to be annoyed by me, and they keep telling me to stop asking and just go out and do imaging and show them what i can do, i wasn't in rush that time, and i wasn't relying on so long time trials errors to learn from it, i know i have to do that no matter what because i started, but i want to get stuff and things right from beginning so i don't waste time on trial and errors, and i tried to benefit from others experiences, but sounds they didn't care about my approach or thinking so that built kind of anger and revenge inside me that i will show people and the world that i am capable of doing great myself, if i will have the right tools, and it boils me more when i see few persons such as big names of planetary imagers to be called as masters of planetary or even GODS of imaging and such i was thinking what is special about them, they just use high quality tools under great seeing conditions, so it is not something impossible, and thus i felt like i don't want to be left behind, i didn't want to spend 4-6 years just to find out that i almost started to have results, i wanted to shorten it with all that anger inside me and like a challenge for me, but then i found out that i just should calm down and do it for me and enjoy it but at the same time i push myself also, i know you can't understand, but my joy is when i get successful top quality images, it means i did right, rather than i keep calm and relax and enjoy it for 20 years and i didn't get anywhere.

For planetary i still don't like my results from my Mak, at first when i started first nights i thought any result i will be happy with, but to my surprise for several nights i was able to produce really nice images that as you said many couldn't produce even for years of imaging, that alone told me that if i have all the conditions here helping me to reach higher level then why not, so i started to compare my planets results to those larger scopes such as 12" or 14" or even 16" Dob, and i always see my results as rubbish compared to them, and i looked at ALL 180mm Mak results of planets on the net by others, i didn't see any did any better than me anyway, few are really nice and i am in same level, but none of us really reached those larger scopes than 10" results, so that made me always feeling that my Mak isn't reaching my skills or it is not the goal i want to use forever, it did its job to its limit, then it is time if i want to go really much higher, it is no question about it, equipment do matters to a point really, and so is the skills, i kept pushing my Mak too much many times to reach that larger scopes level which helps, but it stopped at some points and can't do more, so either i accept it as it is and never look at higher images quality, or i also upgrade when i can, and again, my improvement with results is the fun or joy itself, and if you don't know i already started to order 20" Dobsonian that i want to use it for visual mainly but also for planetary imaging later once it is done and i can add EQ platform, so until that is done in future i am still playing with my 7" Mak and 8" Newt, i think playing with them for 2-3 years is enough, many think i am rushing, actually they rush themselves as well, so it is not fair i have to wait very long years to upgrade something, and i will not get rid of them anyway, a Mak is still a lunar killer scope, and that 8" Newt was ordered mainly for DSO imaging not planetary, but i will try it for both anyway until i get larger scopes such as upcoming 20" or maybe 12" next year.

Sorry for my long posts, if you watched me on AF when i started you will see why i keep pushing myself, i am enjoying for sure but people don't see it, but also my life sucks lately since 2 years, so astronomy [visual or imaging] isn't always the only thing i want to do, and i am in a group from Whatsapp that i see they go to desert dark skies so they always bring nice data and results, they always asking me to join to learn and enjoy, but i can't drive far for some reasons, and there is one person among them he doesn't go with them usually as i can see but he is always a show off guy with equipment, he bought C11 and C14 together maybe last year i think and he is already wanted to sell his C11 and already ordered a larger scope as 18", and his results of planets are amazing, so i felt like why people doesn't care about what he is buying or doing and when it comes to me they told me not to rush, so why he can buy that 11" and 14" or even 1 meter scopes but me i have to keep using my 7"? But i have to follow my heart or gut in that, maybe many don't know about me or my skills so they don't trust what i can do with newer larger more expensive gear, and it is kinda of jealousy here from me also, i don't think you believe i will watch you buying 5" or 6" refractor and 14" reflector and 16" RC and i just watch and wait, and i shouldn't always look at those who are doing great with cheap affordable gear as well, it is not working that way, why don't you see cheap crap cars in racing cars then, because tools are tools, some can afford and some can't, and with all that i will keep buying stuff as i can and also i keep do imaging or visual, i don't like to be limited to anything really, many told me don't buy 16" or 26" scope because of poor seeing, HELL why i care, i will use even 10 meter scope under poor seeing if i want to, it is not about results always which is important, but also the joy of using something as high end in the hand.

Thanks!

[Shabadoo]

I would be very happy with that pic of Jupiter.

[yobbo89]

very nice image, i've read all your post and it tells me that you are well interested in planetary imaging .i wouldn't leap to a 12'' dob it's not practical for your growing skills and it will be hard to achieve a practical focal length even with stacked barlows.

yes allot of nights you might be downpoured by poor seeing and it's even evident in the pro imagers, if you ever see their whole portfolio you'll notice a difference between a good and a bad night.with seeing being a problem i was considering a 14 '' sct and thought about this and opted for a 12'' f10 meade instead mainly because the 12'' was on a large discount sale.

but i forgot there is another good reason to go with a bigger mirror at the same f ratio which is that you can get to your target focal length without slowing the scope down too much which helps allot to get the frame rate up and the histogram up. i'm happy with my 12'' and it will be many years before i outgrow it,there is allot to do with it to keep me busy,derotation,gifs,moon mosaics ectt.

There are even killer images that are done on a 16'' dob with a base tracker that produce as good or even better images then a 14'' sct, bigger the scope mirror the better resolving power something that using a smaller scope and pushing the focal length with a barlow can't do due to rayleigh criterion ,aberration/diffraction which comes into play and the bigger the mirror and better quality the less affected it is to this.

you should look into winjupos for derotation to yield more data integration in the final image


just a little preview of jupiter with my meade 12'' , 7/10 seeing.

I use astrobin to see what others are using , it helps to give an rough idea of what kind of resolving detail someone can get with what type of gear they use.

https://www.astrobin.com/search/?q=jupiter&d=i&t=all

[Hankmeister3]

I totally agree with Yobbo about weather and sky conditions.

Thirty and forty years ago I used to be consumed by the need for "more aperture." I dabbled in film astrophotography but mainly engaged in visual astronomy when my eyes were much younger. Along the way, after a thirty year haitus from the entire hobby of astronomy, I discovered several sobering truths about "going big."

First truth is, unless you have a permanent pier and a great sky location, going big can be both physically and financially taxing. Second truth, in the real AP world, you will rarely have opportunity to take advantage of the full resolving power of bigger optics because of night sky conditions. The quality of the night sky is the great equalizer. In fact, I've found under "normal" sky conditions (Pickering 5, Bortle 4 with moderate transparency) that sometimes smaller scopes (80mm to 150mm) can perform almost as well or even better than some of the big guns (250mm to 400mm aperture), especially with DSOs. Yeah, resolving power comes into its own under near perfect skies when engaged in lunar or planetary imaging, but when the skies are such that you really can't resolve much under 2 or 3 arc seconds, I'll put my little six-inch f/4 fast Newtonian up against anything much bigger than a 10 inch diameter piece of glass. I say this as an AP single-frame grabber and not as a more advanced stacker, highly knowledgeable post-production astrophotographer. Bigger optics probably do produce better stacked images and the such, but the difference is probably marginal as compared to those who have smaller quality optics but are using the same stacking/post-production regimen.

Now if you're blessed with Pickering 8 or 9 skies and Bortle 2 skies with excellent+ transparency, it might make sense to have a 14-inch SCT or a 6 to 8 inch triplet APO refractor (ever priced one of those … whew!) as well as a very highest-end, cooled monochrome astro-camera. But most of the images I'm seeing here which blow me away (and you've posted two very nice images, too) are typically imaged by telescopes in the 80mm to 300mm range. A quality 10 or 12-inch SCT or Mak-Newt or a 180mm Mak are extremely powerful imaging telescopes but you really need fantastic seeing conditions to take full advantage of their aperture.

You can scan what I have in inventory and I'm completely confident that short of imaging from a desert mountain top, I'll never be lacking in aperture. In fact, I find the challenge of doing more with less far more satisfying than "going big" and being potentially disappointed when environmental factors or sky conditions limit the potential of my equipment. After all, I have to haul all the heavier stuff out to a darker site and then back again and at my age that can be exhausting and a joy killer.

[TareqPhoto]

I would be very happy with that pic of Jupiter.

I was happy about it the first time for a while, but then i quickly dreaming about much better and higher quality now.

[TareqPhoto]

very nice image, i've read all your post and it tells me that you are well interested in planetary imaging .i wouldn't leap to a 12'' dob it's not practical for your growing skills and it will be hard to achieve a practical focal length even with stacked barlows.

yes allot of nights you might be downpoured by poor seeing and it's even evident in the pro imagers, if you ever see their whole portfolio you'll notice a difference between a good and a bad night.with seeing being a problem i was considering a 14 '' sct and thought about this and opted for a 12'' f10 meade instead mainly because the 12'' was on a large discount sale.

but i forgot there is another good reason to go with a bigger mirror at the same f ratio which is that you can get to your target focal length without slowing the scope down too much which helps allot to get the frame rate up and the histogram up. i'm happy with my 12'' and it will be many years before i outgrow it,there is allot to do with it to keep me busy,derotation,gifs,moon mosaics ectt.

There are even killer images that are done on a 16'' dob with a base tracker that produce as good or even better images then a 14'' sct, bigger the scope mirror the better resolving power something that using a smaller scope and pushing the focal length with a barlow can't do due to rayleigh criterion ,aberration/diffraction which comes into play and the bigger the mirror and better quality the less affected it is to this.

you should look into winjupos for derotation to yield more data integration in the final image


just a little preview of jupiter with my meade 12'' , 7/10 seeing.

jupiter meade 12''.jpg

I use astrobin to see what others are using , it helps to give an rough idea of what kind of resolving detail someone can get with what type of gear they use.

https://www.astrobin.com/search/?q=jupiter&d=i&t=all

Thank you very much!

I use Astrobin always as well, and from Astrobin itself i saw that 12" and higher is the answer for me, and i chose 12" because it is almost the only scope that is having largest aperture to be handled on EQ6 if possible and more affordable than 14" and 16", in fact i can get 14" Dob or even 16" Dob in same price of 12" SCT or almost, so 14" SCT is out, and for that 12" SCT price i said i will always choose larger aperture, so 14" or 16" Dob can be my choice always, and not only on Astrobin but another sites i saw what that 16" Dob is capable of, and yes, it can reach or even be better than 14" SCT, and i don't care about the issues of 14" or 16" Dobs because they also have pros, and 14" SCT is also has cons anyway, and 12" SCT from what i read isn't any better of weight over 12" Newtonian, and at the end that Newt is almost half price of 12" SCT and it is faster.

I have to read all about pros and cons of each scope, budget is almost my first factor, but with budget i put the quality of mirror or size as second factor or alongside to budget, so for aperture larger is always winning but then i have to check out which one has the lower price then.

I don't look or care about seeing condition at all anymore, because i believe it happens all over the world, poor to excellent, and because i saw nice or excellent seeing some nights in my country so that i decided that i will go with larger aperture scopes no matter what, in fact i got more comments about poor seeing conditions from people who are living in "poor" seeing conditions, so they assume it is the same everywhere so they don't recommend larger scopes so simple.

I hope to learn about using Winjupos, i am sure de-rotation is an important addition to my processing, i will see what i can do about it later.