M42 Orion Layer Experiment

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Hankmeister3
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M42 Orion Layer Experiment

#1

Post by Hankmeister3 »


I'm still learning about the capabilities of my ArcSoft Photoshop 6.0 suite which was bundled with my CanoScan 9000F flatbed scanner I bought 7 or 8 years ago. After consulting with DonQuixote I jumped on YouTube and found a nice tutorial about layering images and the such. Also, over the next six weeks I hope to get a series of M42 and Rosette Nebula images that Mark and I can "play around with" in his Photoshop suite which will be a real learning experience for me in the short-term and in the long-term I'll have enough decent image captures to stack some of these iconic Messier DSO objects like M42, M45, M16, M20, M13, M33, etc. for my own library of astro images.

In the meantime, I'm posting my first venture into "layering" and I was pleased I was able to tame that really big hotspot to some degree in M42. I guess this is still single-frame astrophotography but with an extra layer added to help with the dynamic range at least in this image. Excuse any imprecision on my part since I'm still pretty new to the more advanced world of digital manipulation. Serious stacking, "flats", narrow-band filtering, remote imaging, and whatnot are still eight months to a year away (if I ever decide to take up that challenge) since I'm finding single-frame astrophotography challenging enough right now.

There's still some red/magenta background "noise" that I'm having to deal with when using my unmodified consumer Canon EOS 77D DSLR. I may start using an IR cut filter which I have on hand but I don't like the greenish cast it creates in my images. I find that harder to remove plus greenish anything rubs me the wrong way. I suppose I could cool the camera which I understand would help with this problem. Well, I'm still on that big learning curve which is teaching this ol' dog new tricks.


Orion 6-inch f/4 astrograph fast Newtonian
Skywatcher EQ6-R Pro, PEC + Sidereal rate
Canon EOS 77D unmodified
100 seconds ISO 1600
Single-Frame, two-layer
10/4/2019 … Pickering 4 sky with average transparency. About average conditions under clear night skies here in central Illinois.
Attachments
M42 Orion Nebula Layer Experiment 3_NEW.jpg
Telescopes: Meade LX90 10-inch f/10 UHC Coma-free SCT; Explore Scientific 127mm f/7.5 APO ED triplet refractor; Explore Scientific 102mm f/7 APO ED triplet refractor; Explore Scientific 80mm f/6 APO ED triplet refractor; Skywatcher 72mm f/6 ED Schott doublet refractor; Meade 70mm f/5 APO quadruplet astrograph refractor; Skywatcher Quattro 8-inch f/4 Newtonian astrograph; Orion 6-inch f/4 Newtonian astrograph; Skywatcher SkyMax 180mm f/15 Maksutov; iOptron 150mm f/12 Maksutov; Orion f/9 Ritchey-Chretien RC astrograph
Eyepieces: Set of 7 Baader Hyperion eyepieces, 3 Meade 5000 glass handgrenades; 1970s era Japanese manufactured Meade 12.5mm Orthoscopic, and too many other eclectic eyepieces to list
Mounts: Skywatcher EQ6-R Pro mount; Orion Atlas EQ-G mount
Post-production Software: Not good enough … oh, okay ... Canon's proprietary CanoScan ArcSoft 9000F photoshop suite
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Re: M42 Orion Layer Experiment

#2

Post by Mac »


Very nice capture Hank... I never thought of layering in Photoshop.
Steve

Scopes : Explore Scientific ED102 Triplet APO - Radian Raptor Triplet APO - Orion 50mm
Mount : AVX EQ | Software : KStars - EKOS - Stellar OS | Cameras : ZWO ASI533MC ASI1600MM ASI120MM-mini
CPU : Mac Studio, iMac - Kstars-Ekos on Raspberry Rpi4/RPi5 | Misc : Thousand Oaks dew controller - DewNot straps - Optolong L-enhance - ZWO EAF
Image Processing : PixInsight - LightRoom - Photoshop - macOS 14 - Windows 11
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Re: M42 Orion Layer Experiment

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Post by Hankmeister3 »


M42 Orion Nebula Layer Experiment Original Image.jpg
Thanks, Steve. I suppose I ought to post a "before" photo of M42 that I used for my layering experiment which apparently is pretty basic stuff to advanced astrophotographers. I guess some results can be quite dramatic and sometimes not. In this case it was a nice surprise and I know there are ways to get some real detail in and around Trapezium while pumping up the surrounding nebula even in single-frame astrophotography. In the "old days" there was something we used to called "highlight masking" or "luminosity masking" which was a way to add details in "blown out" highlight areas in even the old photographic film/paper days. Apparently it's also done in the digital domain but I haven't gotten that far.

Old school we used to cut out a rough mask and use it between the enlarger and the photopaper and then "burn in" the highlighted area for, say, twice the normal photopaper exposure time (that would essentially be a "one stop" highlight enhancement) and then remove the mask and allow the rest of the paper to be exposed to the negative image the enlarger is projecting onto the paper. It could be done with one longer exposure or two shorter exposures in the darkroom.

The opposite of that, when wanting to maintain details in darker or shadow areas, we used to "dodge" the "thinner" negative section by interposing a small round wire paddle with an opaque "flag" on the end (it was also called "flagging") and carefully, and not too much, reduce the exposure time to that area of the paper being exposed by maybe 20 to 30% so it all blends together seamlessly. But the digital world has many more tools that can be brought to bear on this problem, apparently, including stacking photos of different exposure lengths which I intuitively assume the stacking software would be selecting the better detailed areas of specific images and then stacking them all together. I might not be explaining exactly right since stacking isn't my forte at the moment.

In the digital world "luminosity masking" works like this apparently:

https://digital-photography-school.com/ ... -tutorial/
Telescopes: Meade LX90 10-inch f/10 UHC Coma-free SCT; Explore Scientific 127mm f/7.5 APO ED triplet refractor; Explore Scientific 102mm f/7 APO ED triplet refractor; Explore Scientific 80mm f/6 APO ED triplet refractor; Skywatcher 72mm f/6 ED Schott doublet refractor; Meade 70mm f/5 APO quadruplet astrograph refractor; Skywatcher Quattro 8-inch f/4 Newtonian astrograph; Orion 6-inch f/4 Newtonian astrograph; Skywatcher SkyMax 180mm f/15 Maksutov; iOptron 150mm f/12 Maksutov; Orion f/9 Ritchey-Chretien RC astrograph
Eyepieces: Set of 7 Baader Hyperion eyepieces, 3 Meade 5000 glass handgrenades; 1970s era Japanese manufactured Meade 12.5mm Orthoscopic, and too many other eclectic eyepieces to list
Mounts: Skywatcher EQ6-R Pro mount; Orion Atlas EQ-G mount
Post-production Software: Not good enough … oh, okay ... Canon's proprietary CanoScan ArcSoft 9000F photoshop suite
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Re: M42 Orion Layer Experiment

#4

Post by Don Quixote »


I can see the change Henry.
It will be interesting to proceed with this idea with the new data that are in the plan. 👍
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Re: M42 Orion Layer Experiment

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Post by Hankmeister3 »


"I'm gonna have me some fun … I'm gonna have me some fun … I'm gonna have me some fun… ." Mac from the movie "Predator" as he attempts to take on the Predator with his 7.62 M60E3.

Yep, we're gunna have some fun, Marcus.
Telescopes: Meade LX90 10-inch f/10 UHC Coma-free SCT; Explore Scientific 127mm f/7.5 APO ED triplet refractor; Explore Scientific 102mm f/7 APO ED triplet refractor; Explore Scientific 80mm f/6 APO ED triplet refractor; Skywatcher 72mm f/6 ED Schott doublet refractor; Meade 70mm f/5 APO quadruplet astrograph refractor; Skywatcher Quattro 8-inch f/4 Newtonian astrograph; Orion 6-inch f/4 Newtonian astrograph; Skywatcher SkyMax 180mm f/15 Maksutov; iOptron 150mm f/12 Maksutov; Orion f/9 Ritchey-Chretien RC astrograph
Eyepieces: Set of 7 Baader Hyperion eyepieces, 3 Meade 5000 glass handgrenades; 1970s era Japanese manufactured Meade 12.5mm Orthoscopic, and too many other eclectic eyepieces to list
Mounts: Skywatcher EQ6-R Pro mount; Orion Atlas EQ-G mount
Post-production Software: Not good enough … oh, okay ... Canon's proprietary CanoScan ArcSoft 9000F photoshop suite
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Re: M42 Orion Layer Experiment

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Post by Thefatkitty »


Quite the difference Henry, nicely done. You seem to have some serious knowledge of photography, and it shows with what you've accomplished!

All the best,
Mark

"The Hankmeister" Celestron 8SE, orange tube Vixen made C80, CG4 & AZ-EQ5 mounts.
Too much Towa glass/mirrors.

H/A - PST stage 2 mod with a Baader 90mm ERF on a Celestron XLT 102 (thanks Mike!)
Ca-K - W/O 61mm, Antares 1.6 barlow, Baader 3.8 OD and Ca-K filters with a ZWO ASI174mm.
W/L - C80-HD with Baader 5.0 & 3.8 Solar film, Solar Continuum 7.5nm and UV/IR filters with a Canon EOS 550D.

Oh yeah, and Solar Cycle 25 :D
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Re: M42 Orion Layer Experiment

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Post by SkyHiker »


You only have so many photons in a single image and the dynamic range is finite so something has to give - single-sub images are fun to play with but the limitations are clear and you will have to upgrade to something better.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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Re: M42 Orion Layer Experiment

#8

Post by Don Quixote »


SkyHiker wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:51 am You only have so many photons in a single image and the dynamic range is finite so something has to give - single-sub images are fun to play with but the limitations are clear and you will have to upgrade to something better.
Yup !
No illusions about any of what you point out Henk.
No matter what we do there will always be limitations, and I imagine we will meet up with each one of them sooner or later.

But we can never have too much fun. The dynamic range of fun is...well it just can't be measured. 😊
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Re: M42 Orion Layer Experiment

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Post by Hankmeister3 »


I hear ya, Henk. I understand what you're saying. I know if I want to go "cutting-edge astro-imaging" software, equipment, and techniques will indeed have to be upgraded. I'm just trying to push my own experience with single-frame as far as I can while I'm still enjoying it. I'd love to do visual astronomy more but my Mark1 eyeballs aren't what they used to be 20 to 30 years ago so that's why I do single-frame. Also, I'd like to image every Messier object. For me that would be a challenging pursuit at this point.

BTW, here's the best image of M42 that I've been able to get and I actually think I can do a little better over the next six weeks. Right now single-frame is the mountain I want to climb for at least another year along with taking as much advantage of some nice astrophotography software packages to refine my single-frame techniques still more. And this image of M42 includes two meteors! A very serendipitous if not extraordinary capture which no amount of stakking or post-production tweaks can accomplish as wonderful as they are. I'm still having fun and to me that's the bottom line.

Love your stuff, Henk, truly amazing and it causes my jaw to drop when I see you guy's "high-end" images. More please, sir!

Thanks for your encouragement.
Attachments
M42 Orion Nebula - Running Man Quattro 8_NEW.jpg
Telescopes: Meade LX90 10-inch f/10 UHC Coma-free SCT; Explore Scientific 127mm f/7.5 APO ED triplet refractor; Explore Scientific 102mm f/7 APO ED triplet refractor; Explore Scientific 80mm f/6 APO ED triplet refractor; Skywatcher 72mm f/6 ED Schott doublet refractor; Meade 70mm f/5 APO quadruplet astrograph refractor; Skywatcher Quattro 8-inch f/4 Newtonian astrograph; Orion 6-inch f/4 Newtonian astrograph; Skywatcher SkyMax 180mm f/15 Maksutov; iOptron 150mm f/12 Maksutov; Orion f/9 Ritchey-Chretien RC astrograph
Eyepieces: Set of 7 Baader Hyperion eyepieces, 3 Meade 5000 glass handgrenades; 1970s era Japanese manufactured Meade 12.5mm Orthoscopic, and too many other eclectic eyepieces to list
Mounts: Skywatcher EQ6-R Pro mount; Orion Atlas EQ-G mount
Post-production Software: Not good enough … oh, okay ... Canon's proprietary CanoScan ArcSoft 9000F photoshop suite
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Re: M42 Orion Layer Experiment

#10

Post by BABOafrica »


Looking good!

BABO
"In lumine tuo videbimus lumen."

Scopes: Stellarvue SV80 Raptor Carbon Fiber ED Doublet / Celestron SCT C8
Williams Optics 66mm APO / DIY 8" f/4 Newtonian astrograph / Nikon 180mm f/2.8
Mounts: Orion Atlas EQ-G / Celestron AVX / DIY mini-equatorial
Cameras: QHY163m / Fujifilm X-A1 (modded) / Fuji X-A2 (not modded) / Orion StarShoot Auto Guider
Filters: ZWO 7nm NB set / ZWO LRGB set / ZWO Dual Band / Astronomics UHC
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