Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

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Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

#1

Post by Juno16 »

Just a follow up on the thread NGC 6960 on Steriods viewtopic.php?p=170861#p170861

I reprocessed the Pickering Triangle data (including NGC 6960) using drizzle integration in Pixinsight. Also, a much lighter hand on the image process as a whole. Not much star reduction and little if any modification to color saturation or balance.

Just two different looks to the image. The “Steriod” version is very bold and is appealing in some ways. In fact, I believe that this is the version that I will have a print made from.

The version here is much more subtle and softer. All of the details are there, just not so bold.

As far as drizzle goes, it really is an amazing improvement on the star quality. With this scope/camera, I am shooting with a pixel scale of 2.8 arcsec/pixel.

However, drizzling does come with a price. Lots more processing time and much larger files.

For instance, my 2 year old Ryzen 7 2700x 8 core cpu with 32G DDR4 ram chewed on the 651 light frames of M31 for a total of 5 hours today to produce the integrated drizzled file.

Lots of fun to learn the process though and I will definitely be using it again.

Original “Steriod” version.

9-15-3ps sm.jpg

Here is the reprocessed with drizzle and much lighter hand.

Pickering's Triangle Final bl drop rgb copy.jpg

Lots of folks responded that they liked the NGC 6960 on Steriods thread which kind of surprised me some. It is really bold and saturated, but kind of cool too.

Let me know what you think!

Thanks for looking!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 Triplet APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO
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Re: Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

#2

Post by AstroBee »

I prefer the Original “Steriod” version myself.
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Re: Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

#3

Post by Juno16 »

AstroBee wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:55 am I prefer the Original “Steriod” version myself.
Thanks AB!

I am definitely interested in what folks like. I had a lot of fun with the steriod version and also with the drizzle version (neat learnings). The steriod version for sure would be a better candidate for printing. I think that drizzling and a more bold process would be the best option.

This is a zoom of what drizzling does for the stars when undersampled (probably classic).
Drizzle vs non Drizzle.JPG
I just thought that the more subtle process looks more "natural", but I can't tell you what natural looks like as I only have lp views and really, they are visually not very impressive.

Thanks for your comment!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 Triplet APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO
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Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor, Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, Orion SSAG, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF
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Re: Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

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Post by AstroBee »

I think the best of both worlds would be to drizzle to get those nice round, smooth stars but then process on steroids.
Again, just my opinion.
Greg M.~
Scopes: Explore Scientific ED152CF & ED127 APO's, StellarVue SV70T, Meade 12" SCT OTA, Classic Orange-Tube C-8, Explore Scientific AR152mm, AWB OneSky 130mm, Edmund Astroscan, Lunt 80mm Ha single-stack solar scope.
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Re: Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

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Post by bobharmony »

The drizzle certainly makes the stars look cleaner! I'm amazed that so few stars show up in both versions, did you do something specific to control them? That is some fine data.

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Re: Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

#6

Post by Juno16 »

AstroBee wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:05 am I think the best of both worlds would be to drizzle to get those nice round, smooth stars but then process on steroids.
Again, just my opinion.
I definitely appreciate your opinion and thanks for sharing it!

I agree. The time investment in drizzling is worth it. Actually, it took me much less time to post-process the steriod version. It seems harder to get things just right with a soft approach. Thanks AB!

bobharmony wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:08 am The drizzle certainly makes the stars look cleaner! I'm amazed that so few stars show up in both versions, did you do something specific to control them? That is some fine data.

Bob
Thanks Bob! Yes, the starfield is really dense. I did separate the stars with Starnett++, but only did a contrast enhancement on the stars. I used a process gingerly in Pixinsight called Morphological Transformation that does quite a nice quick job of reducing the star field quickly and easily.
The data was limited to about 4.5 hours, but it was fun. Yes, drizzling is really amazing!

I am very fortunate to be out again tonight imaging the Elephants Trunk (first time) with the L-eNhance filter and the Sharpstar 61. The moon is at 90% so I will take what I can. It will go into the trees about 2 a.m. and I will switch to the Heart. I should be able to frame the entire Heart with the Sharpstar 61.

Thanks Bob!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 Triplet APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO
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Re: Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

#7

Post by Jockinireland »

Hi Jim, the drizzle certainly make a difference alright. I'm with the others though in that overall I prefer the first version. Great you are getting out. Wall to wall clouds here again for the foreseeable>
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Re: Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

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Post by Juno16 »

Jockinireland wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:08 pm Hi Jim, the drizzle certainly make a difference alright. I'm with the others though in that overall I prefer the first version. Great you are getting out. Wall to wall clouds here again for the foreseeable>
Thanks David.

Actually, I like the first version better too. I will probably be drizzling with this scope every process. So much to learn with PI.
I’m taking Adam Block’s Fundamentals and enjoying it a lot.

Sorry about clouds! I’m fortunate here to have a few clear days/nights ahead since a cool front passed through.

Got some time on both IC1396 and IC 1305 last night and plan to do the same tonight.
The moon is a blasting, but the L-eNhance helps out a good bit.

I appreciate your reply sir! Best of success with the skies!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 Triplet APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO
Mounts: Celestron AVX
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor, Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, Orion SSAG, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF
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Re: Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

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Post by JayTee »

Hi Jim,

This is interesting. I think your two examples show that there is a border line between what is accurate and what is art. The steroid version is certainly more artistic than the more "accurate" version. I think that may be why folks respond to it so well, myself included.

Cheers
JT
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Re: Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

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Post by messier 111 »

AstroBee wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:55 am I prefer the Original “Steriod” version myself.
+1
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Re: Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

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Post by Juno16 »

JayTee wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:54 pm Hi Jim,

This is interesting. I think your two examples show that there is a border line between what is accurate and what is art. The steroid version is certainly more artistic than the more "accurate" version. I think that maybe why folks respond to it so well, myself included.

Cheers
I agree JT. Even the steriod version is somewhat accurate, just maybe "exaggerated". The more accurate version is boring!

Me too, I also favor the steriod version. Perhaps when I get around to it, I will re-process the steriod version with drizzle.

Good learnings!

Thanks!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 Triplet APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO
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Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor, Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, Orion SSAG, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF
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Re: Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

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Post by Larry 1969 »

I prefer the subtle version. The Cygnus Loop is supposed to be a super nova remnant with wispy filamentary detail and your "subtle" version captures that nicely. The "steroid" version, IMO, starts to make the wispy gasses look too solid... Just my personal opinion... Great images!

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Re: Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

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Post by notFritzArgelander »

Aw, heck. I usually dislike the "steroids" approach but in this case I'm totally persuaded! Where do you get your steroids and how do you keep the IOC off your back? ;)
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Re: Pickering’s Triangle Reprocess

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Post by Juno16 »

Larry 1969 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:36 am I prefer the subtle version. The Cygnus Loop is supposed to be a super nova remnant with wispy filamentary detail and your "subtle" version captures that nicely. The "steroid" version, IMO, starts to make the wispy gasses look too solid... Just my personal opinion... Great images!

Larry
Hi Larry!

Thanks! That is exactly why I spent the effort reprocessing the image!

Call me boring, but even though I do like the extra zap of the steriod version, I also do appreciate the soft, more natural (to me) look. I would love to go into space and take a look around! Seriously!

My experience with printing says that the steriod version would be the way to go. It seems that by experience has been that the printed copy looses a lot of zap and the "steroid" version should print a slightly milder look.

Thanks for your comments Larry. They are much appreciated!

notFritzArgelander wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:51 am Aw, heck. I usually dislike the "steroids" approach but in this case I'm totally persuaded! Where do you get your steroids and how do you keep the IOC off your back? ;)

Quite simple nFA! The IOC doesn't give a hoot about astrophotography!

They would have their hands full! No, really, I always look up images in Google Images and the span of artistic expression for any one target is so broad the the IOC would have to 10X the staff!

Thanks for commenting nFA! Much appreciated!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 Triplet APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO
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Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor, Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, Orion SSAG, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF
Camera / Software: ASI 533 mc pro, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, N.I.N.A., PHD2, SharpCap Pro, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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