the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#21

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 5:38 am Does your tube not have this separation line (circled)
The ones I have used before you unscrew the adapter (arrow) to remove it and the focuser, then unscrew that first section of tube and then screw the focuser back into the tube.
ts-102mm-f11-ed-refraktor-teleskop-1000.jpg
Indeed it does not have a separation line. Instead it looks as though it has an adapter as the tube is narrower there.
IMG_0740.jpg
Then there is an additional adapter where you place your arrow.

Reply from TS goes "Hello, usually you have to remove the last part of the tube unscrewing it. please check, this should work also on your tube. you remove the last part of the tube, unscrew the focuser from it and screw it on the shortened tube. this works on all telescopes with this possibility, please have a check/try and let me to know,"

I might just try the binoviewer with the glass path corrector before proceeding. As I get older I'm becoming more of a mechanical klutz and more worried about causing damage by experimenting....
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#22

Post by John Baars »


Congratulations with your new telescope! A beauty!
Refractors in frequency of use : *SW Evostar 120ED F/7.5 (all round ), * Vixen 102ED F/9 (vintage), both on Vixen GPDX.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ : *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
Amateur astronomer since 1970.
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#23

Post by notFritzArgelander »


John Baars wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:27 pm Congratulations with your new telescope! A beauty!
Thanks, it's a keeper IMO. Today I ordered some accessories for it from TS. Three items:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/pr ... /info/p191
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/pr ... nfo/p10157

and to fix some binoviewing bugs: https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/pr ... /info/p604

Some things went astray in the move, it looks like an optics parts box has strayed. As Bobbie Burns said:

"“The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley.”
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#24

Post by The Happy Parrot »


Good deal on that carrying case, nFA.

Regarding the artificial star, once you do your initial collimation, how often will you need to recollimate? I assume, given gentle handling, that it's a once a year thing?
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#25

Post by notFritzArgelander »


The Happy Parrot wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 11:15 pm Good deal on that carrying case, nFA.

Regarding the artificial star, once you do your initial collimation, how often will you need to recollimate? I assume, given gentle handling, that it's a once a year thing?
More like longer, maybe even never. The scope arrived perfectly collimated. The only time I received a refractor out of collimation was the 120mm f8.3 achromat I once had. I test on cloudy nights and all is well.

The main reason for replacing my multicolor artificial star (lost to the move I guess) is that I want to measure the minute amount of chromatic aberration present. I'm thinking it might be too small to measure. I also want to do a Ronchigram to assess smoothness of figure.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#26

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Some nice accessories nFA, the prism should work quite well.
Gabrielle
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#27

Post by notFritzArgelander »


This is an update on the testing of the TS 102mm ED f11.

The observing portion of the evening is discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11497

This post is to fulfill the promise of more detail on the testing of this scope.

My original plan was to use the Celestron NexYZ smartphone adapter to take photos of the ronchigram. Unfortunately, this did not work out. I foolishly tried this out at night violating my rule to never do that. By the clear light of day (see photo) it is obvious why this failed. Note the taper on the top of the grating eyepiece. How is a cell phone adapter going to secure stably to that?!

[image]app.php/gallery/image/1947[/image]

This indicates that a new tester is needed. TS has a 10 line per mm tester so with flatter machining. It needs to be ordered.

So, having convinced myself that a real ronchigram was not possible, I fell back on visually inspecting the ronchi pattern. The instructions recommend using a 2nd magnitude star but I like more light and chose Altair. My procedure is to use the highest useful magnification eyepiece to get close to focus then slip in the Ronchi and refine focus, playing with it a bit.

My first tries where with the Stellar Vue 2” quartz diagonal in place. This tests the objective and diagonal combination and so is of some interest. When doing a ronchi evaluation it is important to remember to not just look at one orientation and declare victory. No indeed. One must remember the wisdom of the “Studebaker Hoch Dancing Lesson and Cosmic Prayer for Guidance” which advises: “Twirly, twirly, …., filmore, filmore….”. I rotated the Ronchi grating to rotate the pattern. There were deviations from perfection which I estimated to be about one tenth to one eighth wave in a zone occupying about a tenth of the image in the 5 o’clock direction of the field centered about half the radius out from the center. This is close to the specification of 1/10 wave for the diagonal alone. So now to diagnose whether it’s the scope or the diagonal. If it’s the diagonal I might consider taking a chance on an improvement.

Removing the diagonal I inserted 2 Astro Tech 50mm extension tubes to make up the difference in optical path length. I then refocused using the 5mm KK and then removed it and added the Ronchi grating playing with the focus adjustment. Again, with the twirly, twirly, this time the ronchi pattern had no deviations from perfection. The zone I had seen is attributable to the diagonal and the optics of the TS102mm ED are seen to be essentially perfect.

In fact the appearance of the ronchigram is favorable in comparison to that of the SV ED80 Access. The latter has a Strehl of 0.991 but the ronchigram shows a tiny edge deviation in the last 1-2 mm. The SV shows slightly less stray noise in the pattern though indicating somewhat smoother optical surfaces.

Comparing the Ronchi patterns the TS102 wins on spherical aberration but the SV80 wins on smooth optics. Both are in 1st place in my book.

More to come on the TS.

Now, about that diagonal.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#28

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Thank you for the update nFA, where is your Ronchi eyepiece from?
I was looking at the Gurd Nuemann offering earlier as I discovered a couple of days ago that mine is scratched...
https://www.gerdneumann.net/english/ron ... piece.html

Sad to hear the diagonal was causing a slight issue as well.
Gabrielle
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#29

Post by notFritzArgelander »


I got my Ronchi tester from Jack Schmidling. Don't click on the link to the EasyTester it's dead. He no longer offers it.

https://schmidling.com/astro.htm

It was discussed on CN:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/4807 ... th-buying/

Most folks seem to find the star test to be more sensitive than a Ronchi test. :confusion-shrug: I think both are about equally useful. The star test serves better for spherical aberration overall. Ronchi does better for surface roughness and zone issues. Both the nights for star testing and the Ronchi testing had very good seeing conditions. Only the Ronchi test revealed the zone problem with the diagonal.

I think that the Gurd Nuemann Ronchi eyepiece is rebranded for sale by TS?

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/pr ... -star.html

PS I'm not terribly worried about the diagonal. It is no big deal.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#30

Post by notFritzArgelander »


This link gives good information on the sensitivity of the Ronchi test.

https://www.telescope-optics.net/ronchi_test.htm

With regard to the sensitivity of the test note:
Very worth mentioning is the possibility of using Ronchi grating in front of the telescope focus (Ronchi "eyepiece"), using a bright star as the light source. With two intercepted lines (L=2), it will detect down to about 1/7 wave P-V of spherical aberration in the telescope objective at ƒ/10. For faster objectives, the sensitivity can be easily increased with a good Barlow lens.

In conclusion, while the geometric Ronchi test certainly has its limitations, they do not prevent its use as a quick, simple and reliable - within given limitations - test for surface quality of both, single optical elements and telescopes (with the latter, Ronchi grating is placed in the infinity focus zone).
So I'm pretty content that it's a sufficiently sensitive test to be useful.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#31

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Well I had a longer reply for this but the site has seen fit to make it disappear when I clicked submit...

The TS version does look like the GN offering. I do like the fact that GN offers 5L as well as 10L and T2 versions as well for those wanting to take pictures.
They would be good for a DPAC test stand.

I think both tests are quite valid, the Ronchi can be a bit easier to interpret for the beginner where a star test under less than ideal conditions can be more intricate without experience.
A artificial star and Ronchi are great ways to start learning about optics.
Gabrielle
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#32

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:05 pm Well I have a longer reply for this but the site has seen fit to make it disappear when I clicked submit...

The TS version does look like the GN offering. I do like the fact that GN offers 5L as well as 10L and T2 versions as well for those wanting to take pictures.
They would be good for a DPAC test stand.

I think both tests are quite valid, the Ronchi can be a bit easier to interpret for the beginner where a star test under less than ideal conditions can be more intricate without experience.
A artificial star and Ronchi are great ways to start learning about optics.
I hadn't noticed until now that the 5 and 10 lines per mm from Gerd Neumann directly are available in versions explicitly designed for photographing the test image. This is a very useful feature as it will facilitate objective quantitative analysis of the ronchigram. I had only filled my shopping cart at TS and hadn't submitted the order yet. So I'll drop the Ronchi from the TS order and get Gerd Neumann's instead.

PS (In other news, off this topic, I have confirmation that those oculars we were discussing have shipped.)
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#33

Post by Lady Fraktor »


I look forward to your thoughts on both :)
Gabrielle
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#34

Post by Kanadalainen »


I think you found a new friend n_FA... what a lovely scope.:)
Ian

Fracs: Stellarvue 70T f6; SW 120mm Esprit f7; "Mark Mk. II" - 60 mm Tasco f6; C80 frac f 11.4
SCT: C8 Edge f10 or f7 with reducer
Dob: 14.5" homebuilt strut dob (f4.5 ZOC mirror), Nexus II, Moonlite focuser
Mounts - Ioptron Skyguider pro, Astro Physics GTO900
Cameras and lenses - ZWO 2600 mc, 290 mm mini, Canon 60D modded with Rokinon 10mm 2.8; Rokinon 135mm f2

Skysafari 6 Pro, Astro Pixel Processor, Pixinsight - using Mac tablet and ASIair pro to run the AP rig.

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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#35

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Kanadalainen wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:34 pm I think you found a new friend n_FA... what a lovely scope.:)
It's lovely enough I may decide that my collection of refractors is complete..... ;)
But you know how that goes..... :lol:
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: the Teleskop Service 102mm ED f11

#36

Post by notFritzArgelander »


I heard from Gerd Neumann that the gratings are in the mail.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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