A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

Discuss your refractor type scopes here.
Post Reply
User avatar
Kanadalainen
Milky Way Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 1849
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 8:05 pm
4
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#1

Post by Kanadalainen »


(Cross-posted to the AP section... but this subforum gives me a different sample of users. :))

Hello to all,

If you know me, you know I like my fracs.

I typically use my Stellarvue 70mm apo for astro work - its my only AP scope and I have been gathering images for about 8 months. I have about 6 months of guiding under my belt, and the rig works fine.

My rig -
Mount: NEQ6
Camera: Canon 60D and a new 2600MC pro.

At this point, galaxy season is coming. I want to get a scope with more reach for DSOs. A friend of mine has a c8 edge HD (6 months old) and the dedicated reducer for sale for a good price. My friend bought a larger scope.
I have no experience using SCTs, I have been a refractor person up to now.

Before this deal came along, I was thinking to buy a 120 mm SW Esprit, but this new offer is literally 40% of the price. Of course the Esprit is way more money, but I want to check in here to see whether anyone with experience with the edge HD for galaxy AP work has compared them to a refractor: any and all thoughts on this are appreciated.

Thanks,
Ian
Ian

Fracs: Stellarvue 70T f6; SW 120mm Esprit f7; "Mark Mk. II" - 60 mm Tasco f6; C80 frac f 11.4
SCT: C8 Edge f10 or f7 with reducer
Dob: 14.5" homebuilt strut dob (f4.5 ZOC mirror), Nexus II, Moonlite focuser
Mounts - Ioptron Skyguider pro, Astro Physics GTO900
Cameras and lenses - ZWO 2600 mc, 290 mm mini, Canon 60D modded with Rokinon 10mm 2.8; Rokinon 135mm f2

Skysafari 6 Pro, Astro Pixel Processor, Pixinsight - using Mac tablet and ASIair pro to run the AP rig.

"Mothers! It is there!" - Rafael Gonzales-Acuna, 2018.
User avatar
notFritzArgelander
In Memory
In Memory
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 14925
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 4:13 pm
4
Location: Idaho US
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#2

Post by notFritzArgelander »


I’ve no recent (i.e. digital) experience doing AP. Almost all my AP experience is decades old and analog. (Glass plates I kid you not.) I do have visual experience using a 120mm Ed doublet and a 9.25 Edge. I’d give the edge to the Edge.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
User avatar
Kanadalainen
Milky Way Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 1849
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 8:05 pm
4
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#3

Post by Kanadalainen »


notFritzArgelander wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:33 pm I’ve no recent (i.e. digital) experience doing AP. Almost all my AP experience is decades old and analog. (Glass plates I kid you not.) I do have visual experience using a 120mm Ed doublet and a 9.25 Edge. I’d give the edge to the Edge.
Thanks not_Fritz!
Ian

Fracs: Stellarvue 70T f6; SW 120mm Esprit f7; "Mark Mk. II" - 60 mm Tasco f6; C80 frac f 11.4
SCT: C8 Edge f10 or f7 with reducer
Dob: 14.5" homebuilt strut dob (f4.5 ZOC mirror), Nexus II, Moonlite focuser
Mounts - Ioptron Skyguider pro, Astro Physics GTO900
Cameras and lenses - ZWO 2600 mc, 290 mm mini, Canon 60D modded with Rokinon 10mm 2.8; Rokinon 135mm f2

Skysafari 6 Pro, Astro Pixel Processor, Pixinsight - using Mac tablet and ASIair pro to run the AP rig.

"Mothers! It is there!" - Rafael Gonzales-Acuna, 2018.
User avatar
pakarinen United States of America
Inter-Galactic Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 4013
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:33 pm
4
Location: NE Illinois
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#4

Post by pakarinen »


As time goes on, I find myself less enamored of SCTs / Maks and more strongly a frac boy. YMMV.
=============================================================================
I drink tea, I read books, I look at stars when I'm not cursing clouds. It's what I do.
=============================================================================
AT50, AT72EDII, ST80, ST102; Scopetech Zero, AZ-GTi, AZ Pronto; Innorel RT90C, Oberwerk 5000; Orion Giantview 15x70s, Vortex 8x42s, Navy surplus 7x50s, Nikon 10x50s
User avatar
Kanadalainen
Milky Way Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 1849
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 8:05 pm
4
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#5

Post by Kanadalainen »


pakarinen wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:25 pm As time goes on, I find myself less enamored of SCTs / Maks and more strongly a frac boy. YMMV.
Frac boy. :)

Yes, much appreciated. I have nothing against my fracs, they work well.

Ian
Ian

Fracs: Stellarvue 70T f6; SW 120mm Esprit f7; "Mark Mk. II" - 60 mm Tasco f6; C80 frac f 11.4
SCT: C8 Edge f10 or f7 with reducer
Dob: 14.5" homebuilt strut dob (f4.5 ZOC mirror), Nexus II, Moonlite focuser
Mounts - Ioptron Skyguider pro, Astro Physics GTO900
Cameras and lenses - ZWO 2600 mc, 290 mm mini, Canon 60D modded with Rokinon 10mm 2.8; Rokinon 135mm f2

Skysafari 6 Pro, Astro Pixel Processor, Pixinsight - using Mac tablet and ASIair pro to run the AP rig.

"Mothers! It is there!" - Rafael Gonzales-Acuna, 2018.
User avatar
John Baars Netherlands
Co-Administrator
Co-Administrator
Articles: 5
Offline
Posts: 2724
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 9:00 am
4
Location: Schiedam, Netherlands
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#6

Post by John Baars »


My experience with astrophotography comes from the analog era, the middle ages. But some things don't change. The Esprit has a focal length of 840mm, compared to the Edge 1260mm (with 0.63 focal reducer). What I know about astrophotography, the latter demands a lot more from the accuracy of the mount. On the other hand in the Edge the smaller galaxies will become 1,5 X their size (lineair) compared to the Esprit.
Bad seeing in the optical tube will be higher in the Edge. Star points are better defined in the Esprit.
But ok, I'm a refractor boy after all.
Refractors in frequency of use : *SW Evostar 120ED F/7.5 (all round ), * Vixen 102ED F/9 (vintage), both on Vixen GPDX.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ : *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
Amateur astronomer since 1970.
User avatar
Arctic
Jupiter Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 1:30 pm
4
Location: Northeastern Minnesota, USA
Status:
Offline

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#7

Post by Arctic »


pakarinen wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:25 pm As time goes on, I find myself less enamored of SCTs / Maks and more strongly a frac boy. YMMV.
I've always loved the crisp image quality provided by decent refractors, but being a galaxy hunter I really need the aperture of my SCT, despite the softer image.
Gordon
Scopes: Meade LX10 8" SCT, Explore Scientific AR102 Refractor on ES Twilight 1 Mount, Oberwerks 15X70 Binos, Nikon Action Extreme 10X50 Binos.
Eyepieces: ES 68* 24mm, ES 68* 20mm, ES 82* 11mm, ES 82* 8.8mm
Observing: Messier Objects--110/110, H1 Objects-- 400/400. Hundreds of additional NGC Objects. Significant Comets: Kohoutek, West, Halley, Hyakatake, Hale-Bopp, McNair, Neowise. Transits of Mercury and Venus.
2017 Total Solar Eclipse
User avatar
Bigzmey United States of America
Moderator
Moderator
Articles: 8
Offline
Posts: 7551
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 7:55 pm
4
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#8

Post by Bigzmey »


For visual galaxy hunting aperture is the most important factor. I love my fracs, but for galaxies 9.25" is the weapon of choice. Our local 800 strong astro club is dominated by AP people and 90% of them use large SCTs, vanilla or Edge.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
User avatar
a100171 United States of America
Mars Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:36 pm
4
Location: Mont Vernon, NH
Status:
Offline

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#9

Post by a100171 »


So here is a different take; if the deal on the Edge is that good (you mention 40%), then it is the equivalent of Gold out there right now. You can always quickly sell the OTA/reducer online at a good price (quite possibly more than you paid). The Edge is a well constructed instrument, all the attachments/adapters are well known, and you would be imaging in no time.

Shortages in the retail space are real. These used OTAs sell very quickly online. It is a very low-risk decision.

I would give it a try, like right around now. After a few sessions, you may just want to switch back to the frac.
Meade 6", 8", and 10" SN, Meade 10" f/6.3 Lx200, ES ES-102, Meade 90mm DS-2000, Celestron CPC-800 HD, Celestron , AVX, CGEM-DX, Twilight I mounts. Omegon 2.1x 41mm Binocs.
Hyperstar for EdgeHD, ZWO and Celestron Nightscape CCD. A fully-functional Meade 12" RCX-400.
User avatar
OzEclipse Australia
Moderator
Moderator
Articles: 2
Offline
Posts: 2329
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 8:11 am
4
Location: Young, NSW, Australia, 34S, 148E
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#10

Post by OzEclipse »


Ian,
If you were doing visual, I would say go for the C8. Photographically, the wider field of the frac, combined with a good field flattener, might be worth considering. For really faint galaxies, aperture is king but for photographing mid-brightness galaxies, the refractor might be worth considering.

Also look at the weight of each OTA. Some fracs are very heavy.

Cheers
Joe
Image
Amateur astronomer since 1978...................Web site : http://joe-cali.com/
Scopes: ATM 18" Dob, Vixen VC200L, ATM 6"f7, Stellarvue 102ED, Saxon ED80, WO M70 ED, Orion 102 Maksutov, ST80.
Mounts: Takahashi EM-200, iOptron iEQ45, Push dobsonian with Nexus DSC, three homemade EQ's.
Eyepieces: TV Naglers 31, 17, 12, 7; Denkmeier D21 & D14; Pentax XW10, XW5, Unitron 40mm Kellner, Meade Or 25,12
Cameras : Pentax K1, K5, K01, K10D / VIDEO CAMS : TacosBD, Lihmsec.
Cam/guider/controllers: Lacerta MGEN 3, SW Synguider, Simulation Curriculum SkyFi 3+Sky safari
Memberships Astronomical Association of Queensland; RASNZ Occultations Section; Single Exposure Milky Way Facebook Group (Moderator) (12k members)
User avatar
Greenman Great Britain
Local Group Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 2296
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:39 pm
4
Location: Nether Heyford, UK
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#11

Post by Greenman »


I’ve gone back to frac’s for me the simplicity of lenses over mirrors is part of it. The other part is that I don’t see myself pushing for faint galaxies. I may try on my SE6, but I expect it is aperture limited. Not looking to purchase any new scopes for sometime.

My wife made a veiled threat, that she had “always wanted eunuch slave” , I think 🤔.

Yes, not really in my future plans.
Cheers,

Tony.

Image

Smart Scope: Dwarf II - Club and outreach work.

AP Refractor: Altair 72EDF Deluxe F6;1x & 0.8 Flatteners; Antares Versascope 60mm finder. ASIAir Pro.Li battery pack for grab & go.

Celestron AVX Mount; X-cel LX eyepieces & Barlows 2x 3x, ZWO 2” Filter holder,

Cameras: main DSO ASI533MC; DSO guide ASI120MM; Planetary ASI224MC; DSLR Canon EOS100 stock.

Filters: Astronomik IR cut; Optolong L-Pro; Optolong L-Enhance.

Binoculars: Celestron 15 x 70.

Latitude: 52.219853
Longitude: -1.034471
Accuracy: 5 m
Bortle 4 site. https://maps.google.com/?q=52.21985,-1.03447

Image
User avatar
Bigzmey United States of America
Moderator
Moderator
Articles: 8
Offline
Posts: 7551
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 7:55 pm
4
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#12

Post by Bigzmey »


Greenman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:15 pm I’ve gone back to frac’s for me the simplicity of lenses over mirrors is part of it. The other part is that I don’t see myself pushing for faint galaxies. I may try on my SE6, but I expect it is aperture limited. Not looking to purchase any new scopes for sometime.

My wife made a veiled threat, that she had “always wanted eunuch slave” , I think 🤔.

Yes, not really in my future plans.
It is not just faint galaxies. For visual larger aperture shows more details in brighter DSOs.

What is that about wives and telescopes? :) Would they prefer us to have bar crawl as a hobby?
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
User avatar
pakarinen United States of America
Inter-Galactic Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 4013
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:33 pm
4
Location: NE Illinois
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#13

Post by pakarinen »


Bigzmey wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:25 pm Would they prefer us to have bar crawl as a hobby?
I gave that up a couple of decades ago but with the proper training and ramp-up, I think I could compete in my age group.
=============================================================================
I drink tea, I read books, I look at stars when I'm not cursing clouds. It's what I do.
=============================================================================
AT50, AT72EDII, ST80, ST102; Scopetech Zero, AZ-GTi, AZ Pronto; Innorel RT90C, Oberwerk 5000; Orion Giantview 15x70s, Vortex 8x42s, Navy surplus 7x50s, Nikon 10x50s
User avatar
Greenman Great Britain
Local Group Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 2296
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:39 pm
4
Location: Nether Heyford, UK
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#14

Post by Greenman »


Bigzmey wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:25 pm
Greenman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:15 pm I’ve gone back to frac’s for me the simplicity of lenses over mirrors is part of it. The other part is that I don’t see myself pushing for faint galaxies. I may try on my SE6, but I expect it is aperture limited. Not looking to purchase any new scopes for sometime.

My wife made a veiled threat, that she had “always wanted eunuch slave” , I think 🤔.

Yes, not really in my future plans.
It is not just faint galaxies. For visual larger aperture shows more details in brighter DSOs.

What is that about wives and telescopes? :) Would they prefer us to have bar crawl as a hobby?
Fair point, on both points :D
Cheers,

Tony.

Image

Smart Scope: Dwarf II - Club and outreach work.

AP Refractor: Altair 72EDF Deluxe F6;1x & 0.8 Flatteners; Antares Versascope 60mm finder. ASIAir Pro.Li battery pack for grab & go.

Celestron AVX Mount; X-cel LX eyepieces & Barlows 2x 3x, ZWO 2” Filter holder,

Cameras: main DSO ASI533MC; DSO guide ASI120MM; Planetary ASI224MC; DSLR Canon EOS100 stock.

Filters: Astronomik IR cut; Optolong L-Pro; Optolong L-Enhance.

Binoculars: Celestron 15 x 70.

Latitude: 52.219853
Longitude: -1.034471
Accuracy: 5 m
Bortle 4 site. https://maps.google.com/?q=52.21985,-1.03447

Image
User avatar
Bigzmey United States of America
Moderator
Moderator
Articles: 8
Offline
Posts: 7551
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 7:55 pm
4
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: A 120mm apo vs C8 edge HD

#15

Post by Bigzmey »


pakarinen wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:46 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:25 pm Would they prefer us to have bar crawl as a hobby?
I gave that up a couple of decades ago but with the proper training and ramp-up, I think I could compete in my age group.
I was showing a real promise but had to give it up when I got married. All the sacrifices we make. :lol:
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
Post Reply

Create an account or sign in to join the discussion

You need to be a member in order to post a reply

Create an account

Not a member? register to join our community
Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics
It’s free and only takes a minute

Register

Sign in

Return to “Refractor type Telescopes”