Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

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mmrmm
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Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#1

Post by mmrmm »


Hi,

I got the following shortlist from astroshop for Newton with a tripod.

Bresser Telescópio N 130/650 EQ3 Spica
Orion Telescópio N 114/450 EQ-1 Starblast II AstroTrack
Orion Telescópio N130/650 SpaceProbe EQ-2
Skywatcher Telescópio N 130/650 Explorer-130PS AZ-EQ Avant

May I please get some support in choosing? I believe the 4 are parabolic and not spherical. Is this so important, meaning I am taking the right approach in bringing down the choices...?

All the telescopes are between 250€ and 300€.

I manly want to observe the moon and planets, would love to see those rings...
Of course that afterwards I may get excited by far reach, nebulosas, etc.

Thanks in advanced!!
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#2

Post by Lady Fraktor »


I would go with the Bresser as it comes with the sturdiest mount and yes it is a parabolic mirror.
The included accessories are decent enough for a beginners package to get you out viewing.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#3

Post by Refractordude »


A longer 1000mm focal length will give you tighter stars, better image/more magnification on the moon/planets, and make your eyepieces work better. Get the 130/1000 Spica instead. Click the image below. What do you think Lady Fraktor?
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#4

Post by mmrmm »


I actually saw that one, but thought that larger focal length would mean less light.

But if better for planets and moon I would indeed consider it.

What about the brand, is Bresser known in the market?
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#5

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Refractordude wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:29 pm A longer 1000mm focal length will give you tighter stars, better image/more magnification on the moon/planets, and make your eyepieces work better. Get the 130/1000 Spica instead. Click the image below. What do you think Lady Fraktor?
Oh, no. Not a good choice. The Spica 130/650 might be faster and so require eyepieces that work well in a faster scope but it's a straight Newtonian with a parabolic mirror. The 130/1000 is described as a catadioptric which implies a built in Barlow sort of lens. Likely the primary mirror is spherical and the Barlow effectively makes it a Bird-Jones design.

Bird-Jones scopes, in principle should be fine, but in the practical world of manufacturing turn out very very badly and hard to collimate.

Sticking to inexpensive Plossl eyepieces on the Spica 130/650 should be much more satisfactory than fighting the collimation problems of a Bird Jones like the Spica 130/1000!

I'm no lady let alone Lady Fraktor but I had to jump in on this one.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#6

Post by notFritzArgelander »


mmrmm wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:46 pm I actually saw that one, but thought that larger focal length would mean less light.

But if better for planets and moon I would indeed consider it.

What about the brand, is Bresser known in the market?
Bresser is well known. Longer focal length means more magnification with the eyepiece and less brightness on the same amount of light. But avoid the longer focal length. It's likely a Bird Jones design which uses a built in lens to increase the focal length. The design has many disappointed customers. I don't know why folks continue to try to sell it.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#7

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Thank you for posting that nFA, I was finishing supper :)

The longer focal length Newtonian is a poorly made Bird-Jones style using a spherical mirror and barlow in the focuser so much the same as the Celestron 127mm EQ.
One to avoid in my opinion.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#8

Post by mmrmm »


So I am now pretty convinced on the Bresser 130/650.

May I also ask your support on the accessories I should order? Any motor for the stand, or additional lenses or eyepieces that make sense? or any books to support a beginner or so....?
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#9

Post by Lady Fraktor »


A tracking motor can be useful for keeping objects centered when viewing but the first important items you will need is a collimation cap and a Cheshire eyepiece for aligning the mirrors.

The telescope comes with a 20mm and 4mm eyepiece, the 4mm is on the very high power side and you would benefit more from a 6mm -10mm for higher powers.
A 32mm Plossl will give a nice wide low power view as well.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#10

Post by Refractordude »


Perhaps a 90/900mm refractor since he is more interested in the planets and moon. Due to the Bresser 130/650 having a mirror, the 90mm aperture refractor may not be that far behind in brightness. It will diffidently put up a sharper more contrasty image than the reflector that needs to be collimated/babied. Also the Newtonian reflector on an eq mount will put the eyepiece/focuser in awkward positions. What do you think nFA/Lady Fraktor?
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#11

Post by SkyHiker »


Here's an article with a whole lot of sense for first time telescope buyers: https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astrono ... ot-to-buy/
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#12

Post by Refractordude »


SkyHiker wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:54 pm Here's an article with a whole lot of sense for first time telescope buyers: https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astrono ... ot-to-buy/
Click the images below.
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Last edited by Refractordude on Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#13

Post by SkyHiker »


Refractordude wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:57 pm
SkyHiker wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:54 pm Here's an article with a whole lot of sense for first time telescope buyers: https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astrono ... ot-to-buy/
I know, I don't feel as strongly against an EQ mount as the author but yea with my Venture RX-7's EQ mount I often ended up loosening both clutches to manually point it at something, and it was rathe unwieldy. Alt/Az would have been much easier but most of those cheap reflectors come with an EQ mount. I don't like them for visual but I can live with it. I would recommend an EQ mount only for astrophotography.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#14

Post by mmrmm »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:29 pm A tracking motor can be useful for keeping objects centered when viewing but the first important items you will need is a collimation cap and a Cheshire eyepiece for aligning the mirrors.

The telescope comes with a 20mm and 4mm eyepiece, the 4mm is on the very high power side and you would benefit more from a 6mm -10mm for higher powers.
A 32mm Plossl will give a nice wide low power view as well.
Would this be the collimating cap you mention?
https://www.astroshop.eu/collimation-ey ... ce/p,33141

Cheshire eyepiece I could not find, but are these two parts needed for the alignment?
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#15

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Refractordude wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:39 pm Perhaps a 90/900mm refractor since he is more interested in the planets and moon. Due to the Bresser 130/650 having a mirror, the 90mm aperture refractor may not be that far behind in brightness. It will diffidently put up a sharper more contrasty image than the reflector that needs to be collimated/babied. Also the Newtonian reflector on an eq mount will put the eyepiece/focuser in awkward positions. What do you think nFA/Lady Fraktor?
The Bresser should be fine for his stated goals, lunar/ planetary for now and start viewing nebula later.
The 90mm is another good choice though.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#16

Post by Lady Fraktor »


See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#17

Post by Lady Fraktor »


SkyHiker wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:01 pm
Refractordude wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:57 pm
SkyHiker wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:54 pm Here's an article with a whole lot of sense for first time telescope buyers: https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astrono ... ot-to-buy/
I know, I don't feel as strongly against an EQ mount as the author but yea with my Venture RX-7's EQ mount I often ended up loosening both clutches to manually point it at something, and it was rathe unwieldy. Alt/Az would have been much easier but most of those cheap reflectors come with an EQ mount. I don't like them for visual but I can live with it. I would recommend an EQ mount only for astrophotography.
I to have no issues with recommending using an eq mount, there are a couple of easy tricks for getting the telescope focuser into a more comfortable position if that is a problem.
For personal use I have both but will always opt for a EQ mount first.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

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Post by mmrmm »


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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#19

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:29 pm A tracking motor can be useful for keeping objects centered when viewing but the first important items you will need is a collimation cap and a Cheshire eyepiece for aligning the mirrors.

The telescope comes with a 20mm and 4mm eyepiece, the 4mm is on the very high power side and you would benefit more from a 6mm -10mm for higher powers.
A 32mm Plossl will give a nice wide low power view as well.
Yes. The 4mm is a bit on the high side. 10mm would be a must have IMO.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#20

Post by notFritzArgelander »


mmrmm wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:17 pm Sorry for asking, but these 3 state they do the same.

https://www.astroshop.eu/collimation-ey ... ce/p,33141
https://www.astroshop.eu/miscellaneous/ ... es/p,59655
https://www.astroshop.eu/collimation-ey ... 25-/p,3925

So do I need one of these or more?
I would get the simple cap for sure (from the middle link) and one of the others but not both.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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